[Closed] Manorexia, eating disorders and men.

Unhelpful: TL;DR

Helpful: [url= http://mengetedstoo.co.uk/ ]MGEDT[/url]

Phil - I saw some of that programme and was quite shocked, just assumed it was a woman thing.

Is this all down to unhappiness or what?

Edit: as I mentioned in another thread, as a child growing up in the 60's I didn't tend to see any larger folk or be aware of eating disorders.

Nice one Philly, loose is what halfton's trousers are.

I love Supersize v's Superskinny though.

I'm half bulimic. I've stopped doing the latter bit

Am not image-conscious in slightest. Been there done that etc.

But I look after myself fairly intensely because so many people I know cannot do the things they want to as a result of ill-health.

edited yeti

CG, excuse the copy and pasting from the link jamie posted but it saves me typing out pretty much exactly the same thing... as a general rule these are some of the better known and common things that influence male body image disorders type thing:

Risk factors

Even though comparatively little research has been carried out on eating disorders in men, it does seem apparent that many of the commonly known risk factors are applicable. In particular the role of eating disorders being a coping mechanism, or an expression of, underlying emotional stress – this is applicable to males as much as it is females. This means any unresolved distress consequently presents a risk to developing eating problems.

In addition, there are a number of other risk factors that can contribute:

They were overweight and/or teased about their size. Bullying seems to be a common experience for adults as well as children.
They are dieting – one of the most powerful eating disorder triggers in both males and females and as much as 70 per cent of young people will diet at one time.
They participate in the sport that demands a particular body build (thin or big). Runners or jockeys are at higher risk of developing an anorexia and bulimia, while footballers or weight lifters will focus on getting bigger (known as ‘bigorexia’). Wrestlers who try to shed pounds quickly before a match so they can compete in a lower weight category seem to be at special risk. Body builders are at risk if they deplete body fat and fluid reserves to achieve high definition.
They have a job or profession that demands thinness. Male models, actors, and general entertainers seem to be at higher risk than the general population.
Some, but not all, male sufferers can be gay or bisexual. There is debate why the gay and bisexual male community is at particular risk but this may be partly because they are judged on attractiveness in the same way that women are in the heterosexual community. Fear of coming out and worry about rejection is also a possibility. In a study carried out by the Eating Disorder Association, they found that 20 per cent of male sufferers were gay making up twice the proportion of gay men in the population. However, a number of factors could contribute to the inaccuracy of this figure mainly being that it is possible that gay men are more likely to seek help than their straight male counterparts.
Living in a culture of fixed diets and physical appearance is also a risk factor. Male underwear models and men on the front pages of male fitness magazines and gay men’s press lead other males to compare themselves with these so-called ‘ideal’ body types – so do ads for men’s hair and skin care products. Weight loss and workout programmes as well as cosmetic surgery procedures, whose goal is chiselled muscularity can lead to the same sort of body dissatisfaction that afflicts women who read fashion magazines and watch movies and TV shows featuring so-called perfect people.

I think it goes beyond eating disorders, it seems that their is little acknowledgement of the fact that lots of people face pressures in life that can lead to mental health issues, and those people actually include average ordinary men.

it seems that their is little acknowledgement of the fact that lots of people face pressures in life that can lead to mental health issues, and those people actually include average ordinary men.

you're several pages of internet arguing early! thats the underlying point i was hoping we'd eventually get to lol. mental health problems are so common its pretty much not normal to never experience some kinda problem!

mental health problems are so common its pretty much not normal to never experience some kinda problem

Like what?

simplest example would be reactive depression following the loss of a loved one. or some form of dementia if you live long enough.

Like what?

For you?

Narcissism.

[img] [/img]

Jamie it's not me talking about me!

Surely everyone's done looked in the mirror like 'he' does though?

Jamie - could you delete that pic please? Ta muchly. 🙂

So ... even though we may have a better standard of living ... we're not actually any happier for it?

Any oldies care to comment on this:

as I mentioned in another thread, as a child growing up in the 60's I didn't tend to see any larger folk or be aware of eating disorders.

I've developed moobs in the last year or so and have to say I'm not overly happy about it. But then again, I'm also too lazy to do anything about it currently. I just turned 40, maybe I'm depressed and haven't yet realised? Bugger.

Carry on.

I saw the programme last night, and was surprised that they reckoned the skinny bloke needed to put on 3 stone.

Phil - serious answer. I almost have no idea anymore. I want to get fitter and faster and better at the activities I do. I look at myself and I see the product of hours of training, of healthy cooking, of cutting back on the big nights out. I'm proud of the body that I have but it's not what drives me to get up at half 5 in the morning. I look at other gym goers whose sole pursuit is a better body, bigger shoulders, whatever, I'm not one of those, I don't view them as healthy. I do know I love exercising though.

Edit - I've just eaten a cupcake and a bag of Minstrels. I haven't got an eating disorder.

you do love exercising yeti, don't think anybody could deny that. there is a risk that you could take it too far unintentionally though.

as much as my recent weight loss is driven by a desire to slow down my back problems and hopefully slow down the onset of type 2 diabetes, the results have changed my body shape and i'm regularly reminding myself of these reasons... previous gym memberships have either been driven by body image issues or resulted in them. gotta stay self-aware and honest with myself!

Interesting. I have noticed that male models have to be stick thin now too, used to be that they were allowed to have normal physiques.

I have also observed with male athletes, much as with female, it's hard to say if the training is a cover for the eating disorder, or the eating disorder is a result of the training.

But if somebody seems to train loads but care little about performance or results, in fact just seems to race when they really have to in order to make it look good, it's the former.

I have to admit some schaudenfraude (sp ?) with all this. It's somewhat ironic wouldn't you say ?

Personally I don't think you can stick at a fitness regime if you're purely motivated by body image unless you're a bit of a twit.

No chance I can take it too far Phil... I'm still stuck at a desk for 8 hours a day.

fitness regime maybe, but i'm talking about guys who don't have a fitness regime... it's more of an 'abs, pecks and 'ceps' routine.

On a personal note, since last November I have lost 10kg's through hard training, change of diet and a steely determination to change and improve.

Although never massively overweight at 80ish kg's I didn't like it and this change has given me a whole new level of self like and pride and at 40 I'm healthier and fitter than I've ever been.

The down side to this is that I have a very addictive personality and over the past week I've had a massive urge to eat rubbish to which I'd been accustomed to previously. I weighed myself a couple of day's ago and I'd put on 1.5kg's and if I'm honest it's dominated my thoughts since and it's getting to me. The sad thing is I'm still only 71.5kg's FFS.

My instant thoughts are to cut out loads foods and fasting exercise to quickly get back to my previous 70kg but I know it's not healthy.

Not sure what my point is but I can see how dangerous it can be and the irrational thoughts that go with weight, self worth etc.

Yep, those are the guys who are twits with a capital A. All IMO of course. They probably think I'm a dack.

I have an eating disorder.

I hate tuna sarnies, seriously, I think they're ghastly.

MM, same here in a lot of respects, apart from my starting weight was 90kg-ish and i'm down to 78kg (as measured yesterday morning)... it's a slippery slope that's easily slipped down with that kinda thought process and eating disorders can be born from such situations.

cut out loads foods and fasting exercise to quickly get back to my previous 70kg [b][u]but I know it's not healthy.[/b][/u]

i stare at the scales and if i'm up over 80kg i can hear the cogs in my head start to turn... I've made the decision to focus on visible fat (love handles and belly) rather than weight now to stop myself getting carried away as I have in the past with previous "health kicks" that were more about looks than health!

my will power with food is rubbish so i've never remotely got close to a dangerous point with restricting eating! *looks at empty grab back of cadburys wisper bites in the bin that i ate for lunch* 😆

Mines compounded by the fact that my weight loss has resulted in improved results with each race I've entered and to the irrational me that extra 1.5kg added will make me slower for the next race even though I train bloody hard and will be even fitter still come the next race.

Mrs MM has suggested throwing all the chocolate away but I don't think she needs to so rash just yet. 👿

mrsconsequence wont let me ban chocolate from the house 👿 my eating would improve dramatically if she didnt constantly offer me pudding... if the foods not there i can cope without.. if its being offered my will power is nowhere to be seen!

I'm anti fat people to be honest. I'm not talking about the sort of people who are a bit portly but are doing something about it (although I find it funny when people on here say things like "I'm only 14 stone").

I really do abhor proper fat people. I think that airline baggage restrictions should be combined weight of passenger and luggage, and that people should have to be weighed publicly at the airport. I hate the fact that if I take a heavy bag it will cost me more, but a fat person pays no extra.

I also advocate a 'three-strikes' rule on the NHS. Any person may receive treatment for things which are solely detrimental to ones health (drinking, smoking, obesity) 3 times in a given period, after which they will be refused NHS care unless they have shown positive steps to change their behaviour.

Stomach stapling etc should not be available on the NHS.

To offset this I think that fruit and veg should be cheaper than chocolate and sweets. I really hate that when I walk into Sainsbury's for lunch (Metro jobby, City, solely populated by folk buying lunch) there are huge discounts on cookies etc, but fruit is significantly more expensive than my local 'proper' Sainsbury's. 4 apples for £1.50 is not a bargain, when you have multipacks of crisps for 50p, or Easter Eggs (before Easter) for £1.

Some deep discussion stw today! I have lost about 25kgs over a couple of years through change of lifestyle and job. Previously I was overweight but didn't really show it. When I look back now I realise that where I'm at now is a huge jump from where I was.

I don't have the discipline to stick to any kind of strict eating regime, coupled with the fact that I'm a fussy eater and love chocolate doesn't help. But as the Southern Yeti says, I train to be better at the sports that I love not to achieve some kind of body image.

I get a buzz from my training sessions and real enjoyment from all exercise. That has made me pretty focussed on maintaining effort. Although after changing my program a little bit to build upper body strength for the sailing season I have increased weight so have stopped worrying about weight so much and focussing on the more visible/feel aspects. ie do my jeans still fit!!

But strangely the BMI type things still have me borderline with overweight which at 6'3" and 85-90kgs I would be inclined to disagree!!

The kitchen 100% my domain in my house so at least I can control what we eat and portion size.

Mrs MM is a teacher so is always coming home with chocolate, especially at the end of term. We've had far to many Easter eggs to munch through recently which is probably why I'm involved with this thread.

I have an awful relationship with food.

aaaaaaaand that's all I am going to say on the matter.

(although I find it funny when people on here say things like "I'm only 14 stone").

It's relative surely, 14 stone and 5'6" is huge, 14 stone and 6'5" is a different matter.

I have an awful relationship with food.

Are we talking American Pie?

Now Njee does have me paranoid! Not everyone can be stick insect thin and not everyone that is large is unfit.

I've a good fighting weight, being 17 stone, but on the flip side I played high level rugby union and league for years (as a prop forward) and only retired last year and was in the Army for 5 years.

I find that I have good heart and lungs, but now that biking is my sole sport that I really enjoy, it is difficult to actually change body shape, I would love to be less "bulky" and would love to be able to buy decent bike gear, I have to by XXL lycra shorts to accomadate my thighs even though I have a 35" waist.

I have switched from a diet of low rep weight training and sprints, to more cycling, intervals on a turbo trainer etc and the staminour is improving, but i don't think i'll ever be an XC whippet. Doesn't mean i enjoy riding any less overall, although I do find riding so much more enjoyable the more bike fit i get, as i can concentrate more on technique, picking good lines, chatting with those around me etc more, as opposed to struggling up the hills and as my mate said "looking like Jon Belushi...............10 minutes after he died"!

philconsequence - Member

Not sure where I'm going with this thread, but I'd definitely be interested in your experiences or opinions on the subject

I just assumed you were overwhelmed by the news last night that the Miss Universe 'Beauty Pageant' was now open to transgender participants....

Most male eating disorders must be in direct ratio to the increasing number of lady boys (and incidental increased lycra use by off roaders on single speed bikes?)

But strangely the BMI type things still have me borderline with overweight which at 6'3" and 85-90kgs I would be inclined to disagree!!

Sailing tends towards heavier people though, eg the 'ideal' weight for the Laser is 78-82kg depending on how windy it is where you are, moving up to something like the Fin and people are in the 90's. Whereas cycling (paricularly XC and roadies) tends towards lighter weights (65kg or so seeming to be about average people who race compettitively).

Does make me wonder though at the number of crews you see with a bloke helming and the wife/kid on the trapeeze.

It's relative surely, 14 stone and 5'6" is huge, 14 stone and 6'5" is a different matter.

Aye, it was a sweeping generalisation, but I've read plenty of posts on there to that effect, and I'm prepared to wager people aren't 6'5".

Now Njee does have me paranoid! Not everyone can be stick insect thin and not everyone that is large is unfit.

Didn't say anything to the contrary, just used the example that IMO 'only' and '14 stone' don't really belong together, didn't mention weight otherwise. Being 'only 14 stone' doesn't mean you're fat, or even overweight, or unfit, but it's not light (which is the context it was being used). You know the sort of posts: "I think I'll be fine with Crests, I'm only 14 stone" implying that's light.

I make no inferences to fitness, I know a lot of people heavier than me who are far faster.

You should still pay more than me for airline tickets though if I'm being charged for the weight of my baggage 🙂

IMO of course.

Sailing tends towards heavier people though

What's sailing got to do with it??

I've done both myself. I've been 18 stone and extremely self conscious. I'm now 12 and a half stone and while I miss eating all the junk food that I loved, I far prefer being happy with how I look.

More than that though, in my experience it's about how you feel. I feel great and thats the important bit. When i was fat, I felt shit.

More than that though, in my experience it's about how you feel. I feel great and thats the important bit. When i was fat, I felt shit.

Wise words!!

Yeti when you say things like

[i]Edit - I've just eaten a cupcake and a bag of Minstrels. I haven't got an eating disorder.[/i]

That's an eating disorder waiting to happen, sooooo many of my friends say the exact same thing, and will put off eating dinner to compensate for it, or will straight puke it back up, or will be mentally counting the calories.

I love sport, and I love being skinny and light, but I know I can very easily slip into "punishing myself" for eating just regular food like pasta or pudding, and I know that I don't really eat enough to fuel big runs or rides, and that's bad.

And if we're being honest, I feel really smug about seeing chubbies and thinking "gross" 😳 but I know most of my figure comes from the fact that both my parents are small and light, mum is same as me, dad is about 170cm and less than 70kg as well.

sooooo many of my friends say the exact same thing, and will put off eating dinner to compensate for it,

LOL... it really isn't. I've just eaten three satsumas and have been e-mailing the good lady to try and make her cook a chinese pork thing I like.

I'm aware of calories in what I eat, if you pay no attention then you'll end up chubby.

thisisnotaspoon - Member
But strangely the BMI type things still have me borderline with overweight which at 6'3" and 85-90kgs I would be inclined to disagree!!
Sailing tends towards heavier people though, eg the 'ideal' weight for the Laser is 78-82kg depending on how windy it is where you are, moving up to something like the Fin and people are in the 90's. Whereas cycling (paricularly XC and roadies) tends towards lighter weights (65kg or so seeming to be about average people who race compettitively).

Does make me wonder though at the number of crews you see with a bloke helming and the wife/kid on the trapeeze.

Five ohs tended to be a weight mix, light person driving, tall meathead on the wire..

There are classes that favour lighter folk and of course conditions, lighter wins in lighter conditions and the reverse is true.

Something I've noticed in bikes, heavy meatheads go faster downhill..

Meathead = anyone weighing over 75kgs.

What's sailing got to do with it??

He was talking about his weight and training for sailing.

Having been a chubster as a kid I have massive self image issues, and still see myself as a bloater now. Rather than going for an eating disorder I used amphetamines and fags to keep the lard off as a teenager.

logically I know that 5ft 10 and 71 kg is fine, but emotionally I'll always be the fat fugly one. 😕

njee20 - Member
I also advocate a 'three-strikes' rule on the NHS. Any person may receive treatment for things which are solely detrimental to ones health (drinking, smoking, obesity) 3 times in a given period, after which they will be refused NHS care unless they have shown positive steps to change their behaviour.

Drinking is different. A little has been shown to be beneficial (even if only mentally) Extreme drinking kills you. Some may view cycling in a similar way. The risks vary ( and obviouslly the benefits outweigh them, and the two activities are not equally dangerous ), but some downhill biking could easily be seen as [i]unnecessarily[/i] dangerous, and therefore be pushed towards your "danger list". I've used a bad example, but the point is that a lot of what we do for fun carries inherrent risk which could be classified as dangerous or unnecessary and end up with health service restrictions. It's not as black and white as anything being "Solely detrimental" and likely to come down to "opinions", probably from insurance profesionals. The idea worries me.
Obesity is different yet again. Its a condition people suffer from, not an activity detrimental to health. A bit like cancer, or heart disease, and to refuse to treat someone because of the condition they suffer appears totally against the principles of the NHS. If you want to consider the causes, it appears to be that sitting on one's @rse all day is the activity that contributes most- but that's a modern workday for so many.

emsz and tazzy, thanks for the honesty 🙂

its nice a positive to say:

More than that though, in my experience it's about how you feel. I feel great and thats the important bit. When i was fat, I felt shit

but with any kind of body dismorphia, how you feel doesnt really get better no matter what size you are, often the good feeling from loosing weight can drive an obsession with control and that tips people into eating disorders sometimes. that kinda attitude is fantastic when you've got a good mindset, but the people i'm discussing in this thread dont tend to have a good mindset.

As a shy child of the eighties, it was all about action heroes. Stallone, Van dam etc, so it was off to the gym for me. I've been in pretty good shape all my life and been pretty image concious too. Not really sure why, but I was bulimic for a few years (nobody knows this), I was doing lots of exercise and eating fairly well, but would occasionally (fairly often)gorge myself on rubbish and then throw it back up.I wasn't quite men health lean, but not far off and didn't want to lose it with my greedy Bagstard habits. The last episode would have been twelve years ago and I would be so ashamed if found out.

So there you have it, confessions of a narcissistic twit.

have you seen 'bigger, faster, stronger (the side effects of being american)' bagstard? think there's a fair amount in that documentary/film that you'd relate to...

kudos on the honesty 🙂 hope you're feeling better about yourself now dude!

as I mentioned in another thread, as a child growing up in the 60's I didn't tend to see any larger folk or be aware of eating disorders.

As c-g said, I don't remember any other than the spread of body types one regards as normal. But (*violins playing the Hovis music*) that was when we walked to school, didn't have central heating, played outside with all the other children in the street, rode bikes and fell off, climbed trees, fell in streams...

And the closest we got to junk food was fish and chips once a week.

It's a long time ago and not something I often think about, but grim none the less.At the time I didn't really think of it as a disorder, I wasn't sad or depressed and just saw it as a means to an end. It was never comfort eating, more just feeding the greedy monster inside.

I'm still into training, but more concerned with strength at the moment, but must admit to being quite amazed at the vanity of some fellow gym members.

I shall seek out bigger,faster,stronger.

Also may start a bulimic recipe thread! 😯

I might be an interesting example. Anyone who has met me will probably agree that I'm on the lean side. A friend described me as a rake on facebook yesterday!

5'10" and my natural body weight seems to be just under the 10st mark, or about 63kgs. My dad is similarly scrawny/wiry, and his natural weight is about 9 1/2 st. I've never unintentionally put on weight, and the whole family is pretty thin.

I've always been active, cycled everywhere as a family, XC running at school, holidays would generally involve lots of hillwalking etc.

During my gap-year before uni I decided that for purely vain reasons I'd bulk up. I hit the free weights pretty hard, lots of protein shakes, inordinate amounts of carbs and meat in my diet, but still lots of cycling. Within a few months I got up to 13 1/2 st, and there wasn't any discernible fat there, just lots of muscle, in particular considerably more upper body than I had ever had before, and pretty major thighs. While I liked being big, it didn't make me any faster on a bike, and it wasn't because I had a more physical lifestyle (gym excepted of course).

When I got to uni I had quite a serious viral and bacterial infection which completely knocked me out. 2 weeks of being in bed not moving, talking, eating - barely opening my eyes saw me metabolise virtually all of my muscles and I pretty much resembled a POW. I think my weight dropped to a pretty worrying 8 1/2 st losing over 1/3 of my body mass 😯

After doing the bulky thing, I've never bothered trying since, and been more serious about cycling, which has pretty much dictated my physique ever since. I'm currently training for a half-ironman triathlon, which means my utterly pathetic upper body needs considerable work!

I think I'm pretty lucky with what I assume is a fast metabolism, I very rarely put on weight unless I make a concerted effort - I certainly don't hold back on the eating front!

Cheers, Rich

3 and a half stone of muscle in a few months?! That is some seriously good genetics!

3 and a half stone of muscle in a few months?! That is some seriously good genetics!

Something does not seem quite right...

This was nearly 15 years ago, I can't recall exactly how long I was going to the gym for and bulking up, but I certainly weighed myself at 13 1/2 at around my peak. Might have been more like 4-5 months of serious gyming.

I was eating a quite ridiculous amount though - 3 x 'Crash Weight Gain' shakes a day, my lunch was a 3 litre container full of pasta, sweetcorn and 1lb of tuna, and took me an hour to eat, and I generally had about 1lb of turkey or pork + veg/pasta in the evenings too.

Shudder to think how much the additional food alone would set me back these days!

Cheers, Rich

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17665189

Does "the milk challange" constitute bulemia?

5 choccie biccies dunked in one cup of tea just consumed.

No disorder here.

I'm studying this at the moment, it's interesting comparing the thread with the research I've read.

Eating disorders encompass a broad range of conditions: anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa, binge eating disaorder and EDNOS (eating disorder not otherwise specified). A common thread throughout each is an extreme relationship with control/satisfaction with the self, typically feeling a lack of it.

My mum developed severe depression when I was 7, wanted to die and became so apathetic she stopped eating. She has experienced an unfathomable level of abuse as a child and at a point in her life it all came flooding back with crippling intensity. I saw her slowly but surely shrivel away, until something gave way and a slow but lasting recovery occurred. She was a single parent at the time and luckily had supportive friends.

Present media culture, lack of education, cheap abundant junk food, widespread depression, social pressure (or perceived social pressure), unhealthy training regimes and insecurity are key causes for many people at both the under and overweight disorder spectrum.

It's easy to marginalise people, ironically this is just adding to the problem.

[i]Present media culture, [b]lack of education[/b], cheap abundant junk food, widespread depression, social pressure (or perceived social pressure), unhealthy training regimes and insecurity are key causes for many people at both the under and overweight disorder spectrum.

It's easy to marginalise people, ironically this is just adding to the problem.
[/i]

Good Post !.
😉

Solo, the winky smile makes me assume some sort STW sarcasm. Or I'm over reacting...it's been a long day.

When I talk about education I am referring to an understanding of food, diet and the body. Some people simply don't understand balanced eating as they've not been shown what it is or how it works whether this is academically or socially.

Awkwardly I'm leaving it there 😉

I think I have actually developed slightly disordered eating in the last year as I now agonise over everything that I eat. On the plus side, I am now in better shape than I was (fitter and less fat) and not gaining weight. I'll take eating disorder over fat and eating whatever I want any day of the week thanks.

There are degrees of everything

@Herman

I don't think Solo was being sarcastic. It's just his '[i]unique[/i]' writing style.

For future reference, to try and make sense of Solo's posts, ignore the smileys and correct the punctuation.

Blimey. I was happy the other week when I slipped back into the realms of 13st something.

Some of you are really broken. I feel utterly boring and normal.

The media is very powerful. Ugly (normal) people are usually portrayed in a negative context while pretty people are used to portray normals.

It all affects our expectations of how we "should" look. Most of us will never be pretty. And desire for the unattainable drives us mad.

Look beyond appearances. True beauty and grace is available to everyone.

Speak for yourself Buzz.

I am the Somerset Adonis!

;P

I am less fat than a lot of people I know. That makes me smugly happy regardless of what is right or wrong or where society is putting pressure on us all. I have won because I have control over what I eat!

For future reference,

to try and make sense of Solo's posts, ignore the smileys

and correct the punctuation.

Or,

read Them like poems,

and bathe in the beauty that he

conjures with their structure

😉