Manchester's Police doing what the Met are scared of doing!

In the STW world, calm, secure police officers are able to make rational, carefully thought out decisions in full possession of all of the available facts.

What made you write that out?

The trouble right now is that it’s not applying at all to some groups of the population.

Wrong. The Law applies to everyone, equally. Some are choosing to break it. The Law still applies to them though.

i understood it fully

Ok then, explain how.

Easygirl, thank you for the work you’re putting and please ignore the comments of Elfinsafety, he’s a small man seeking a large audience hence the constant provocative comments to get a reaction.

well you are in a round about way, saying that all men are equal and all laws should be abided by in the same manner. ie, one rule for all. every man/woman/dog is not above the law and shouldnt take the law into his own interpretation of what it should be. i agree if we all abided by the same law it would be ruddy blooody perfect yahh, you are also suggesting that the police that decided to beat these poor innocent thugs are equally as awful people? if i didnt understand then im off to play lootin’ fancy a game??!

so my question is to you, at what point were these holigans equal to the rest of mankind? and when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not….sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used, does this mean our army are completely breaking the law everytime they shoot a man and kill them for no obvious reason other than its a war??

To the Londoners, do you you feel the way the media has presented recent events reflects what you have seen and experienced first hand?

Oscillate Wildly – Member

still nice to know these youths have people like you to rely on

Didn’t see that little nugget – where have I defended the actions of any criminals? All I’ve said is what ernie has at the bottom of the previous page, from the video there is no way to tell what is going on, except the police appear to overreact as it is not apparent that they are in any particular danger*. Just looks like summary justice which is something no-one should support.

*at that point.

Oscillate Wildly – Member

well you are in a round about way, saying that all men are equal and all laws should be abided by in the same manner. ie, one rule for all. every man/woman/dog is not above the law and shouldnt take the law into his own interpretation of what it should be. i agree if we all abided by the same law it would be ruddy blooody perfect yahh, you are also suggesting that the police that decided to beat these poor innocent thugs are equally as awful people? if i didnt understand then im off to play lootin’ fancy a game??!

so my question is to you, at what point were these holigans equal to the rest of mankind? and when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not….sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used, does this mean our army are completely breaking the law everytime they shoot a man and kill them for no obvious reason other than its a war??

What the bejiggers are you on about?

The problem is, OW, that if you let the policeman on the ground decide who’s guilty and what their sentence should be, then mistakes are unavoidable, and you end up with the local community up in arms and the press whipping up loads of hatred against good coppers who are just trying to do what’s right – as has happened many times in recent years, and in fact what started this whole thing off.

I think that this is what the police in charge were trying to avoid…

For instance, just watching Newsnight, there was a clip in a montage of a policeman in riot gear running up to a couple walking across the road who are clearly on a social night out and hitting them with a baton. Doesn’t look good 🙁

so my question is to you, at what point were these holigans equal to the rest of mankind?

I believe that, in law, a person is distinct from and not defined by the crimes he commits. So all humans are equal, and if they commit a crime they will all face the same punishment regardless of who they are.

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Manchester’s Police doing what the Met are scared of doing!
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molgrips – Member

In the STW world, calm, secure police officers are able to make rational, carefully thought out decisions in full possession of all of the available facts.

What made you write that out?

Posted 9 minutes ago # Report-PostElfinsafety – Member

The trouble right now is that it’s not applying at all to some groups of the population.

Wrong. The Law applies to everyone, equally. Some are choosing to break it. The Law still applies to them though.

i understood it fully

Ok then, explain how.

Posted 9 minutes ago # Report-Postcraigxxl – Member
Easygirl, thank you for the work you’re putting and please ignore the comments of Elfinsafety, he’s a small man seeking a large audience hence the constant provocative comments to get a reaction.

Posted 4 minutes ago # Report-PostOscillate Wildly – Member
well you are in a round about way, saying that all men are equal and all laws should be abided by in the same manner. ie, one rule for all. every man/woman/dog is not above the law and shouldnt take the law into his own interpretation of what it should be. i agree if we all abided by the same law it would be ruddy blooody perfect yahh, you are also suggesting that the police that decided to beat these poor innocent thugs are equally as awful people? if i didnt understand then im off to play lootin’ fancy a game??!

so my question is to you, at what point were these holigans equal to the rest of mankind? and when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not….sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used, does this mean our army are completely breaking the law everytime they shoot a man and kill them for no obvious reason other than its a war??

Posted 4 minutes ago # Edit Rusty Spanner – Member
To the Londoners, do you you feel the way the media has presented recent events reflects what you have seen and experienced first hand?

Posted 3 minutes ago # Report-PostLifer – Member

Oscillate Wildly – Member

still nice to know these youths have people like you to rely on

Didn’t see that little nugget – where have I defended the actions of any criminals? All I’ve said is what ernie has at the bottom of the previous page, from the video there is no way to tell what is going on, except the police appear to overreact as it is not apparent that they are in any particular danger. Just looks like summary justice which is something no-one should support.

it t’wass a gem was’nt it! and its hard to criticise given we dont know the full story of it….but its all opinion, lets hope its sorted regardless, i for one dont want a pathetic argument on here about it, id prefer to see it not happen from day one.

peace out brutha

as i say, id love to sit here and talk more drivel about your almighty and correct views on life, but im off out lootin now

toodle pip!

Lifer – Member

Oscillate Wildly – Member

well you are in a round about way, saying that all men are equal and all laws should be abided by in the same manner. ie, one rule for all. every man/woman/dog is not above the law and shouldnt take the law into his own interpretation of what it should be. i agree if we all abided by the same law it would be ruddy blooody perfect yahh, you are also suggesting that the police that decided to beat these poor innocent thugs are equally as awful people? if i didnt understand then im off to play lootin’ fancy a game??!

so my question is to you, at what point were these holigans equal to the rest of mankind? and when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not….sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used, does this mean our army are completely breaking the law everytime they shoot a man and kill them for no obvious reason other than its a war??

What the bejiggers are you on about

*pulls down elfins pants for you to enter*

Easygirl, thank you for the work you’re putting and please do not ignore the comments of Elfinsafety, he’s as entitled to his onion as anyone else in this Democracy you are working to protect.

F
T
F
Y….

I am merely expressing the need for Law and Order to operate correctly, fairly and without prejudice. Care to explain why you have such a big problem with that?

Oscillate Wildly makes a fair point here Elfie :

“when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not….sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used”

I don’t think you appreciate how bad/dangerous the situation was. I don’t think the Old Bill could afford the luxury of sitting back and doing everything as you would expect it to be done in an ideal situation. I’m actually surprised, and very grateful, that the loss of life wasn’t worse.

Rusty – for me it was quite a bit worse than the way the media presented it. Not their fault – I think you need to see and experience things personally to get a better picture.

Nope still not a clue.

ernie_lynch – Member

Oscillate Wildly makes a fair point here Elfie :

“when they were endangering lifes not knowing if the flats above etc were full of occupants? is that playing by the rules/law? i think not….sometimes im sure underhand tactics have to be used”

I don’t think you appreciate how bad/dangerous the situation was. I don’t think the Old Bill could afford the luxury of sitting back and doing everything as you would expect it to be done in an ideal situation. I’m actually surprised, and very grateful, that the loss of life wasn’t worse.

This relates to the video?

If the Police need to use force to stop a crime being committed then I don’t think anyone will argue with that.

Ernie – have you looked at the video clip? I remember you being very vociferous in the past about cops using unreasonable force in the case of Tomlinison and a female protester the same day. Do you think it was reasonable? It was far more force than Tomlinson got.

I am quite happy for cops to break a few heads were there is a need.

What the bejiggers are you on about?

In fairness, it is quite late…

*pulls down elfins pants for you to enter*

What an incredibly intelligent and erudite comment. I won’t bother continuing in this ‘discussion’, as I’m clearly out of my intellectual depth here, against such a heavyweight….

This relates to the video?

I have no idea. I have already said that I don’t know the background to that video or whether they were looters, but that on the face of it, it doesn’t look good.

If however, they were looters/arsonists (but why were they on bikes? 😕 ) then ‘immobilising’ them by beating the shit out of them is probably, under the circumstances, acceptable. I still don’t like it though, but I can live with it.

EDIT : I’ve just looked at the start of that video again, and to be fair, although it looks as if the ‘attack’ might have been a bit painful, it doesn’t look that particularly savage.

ahhhh the old intellect comment – nice to know people with iq’s of over 300 are only allowed to have an opinion, what an incredibly intelligent, fair comment to make….

shame as by the sounds of it you could have stopped this single handedly!

elfin for prezzz

Ta ernie

So OW, any examples of specific PC/liberal/softly softly/leftie policies yet?

And after your comment I think feigning insult is a bit rich.

Oscillate Wildly makes a fair point here Elfie :

Not really. I think we can all appreciate the severity of the situation.

We’re discussing the disproportionate amount of force used by a few coppers against people who appeared to pose no apparent immediate threat to them or anyone else. Quite why OW went blethering on about totally unrelated matters, I have no idea.

Of course force must be used in certain situations. Of course Human Life should be protected at all costs. Of course sometimes on the spot decisions must be made which afterwards may not be ‘by the book’. Act now, face the consequences later as long as the main goal is to protect life. We’re not arguing against that.

In this particular situation, it does appear that unreasonable and disproportionate excessive force was used. Which is illegal. And the issue at stake here is that if the police are seen to be breaking the Law., then that undermines the whole fabric of Law and Order, and public confidence in the police to do their duty according to the Law.

I don’t think some people get this though.

ahhhh the old intellect comment – nice to know people with iq’s of over 300 are only allowed to have an opinion

Well, that’s me shafted then! 😆

i read the daily mail, i want to end my life. bye bye.

What softly softly approach? We lock up more of our citizens for longer for lessor crimes than most comparable nations, we have very harsh immigration laws, we have very mean benefits.

to name a few of the main culprits at present, immigration, benefits, general petty criminals, and your general thieving scum which im sure all of the above are mostly to blame for this looting at present

What a load of bollox. If you don’t mind me being frank.

EDIT : That was a quick edit Oscillate Wildly. Still, fair play to you for realising that it was complete bollox and deleting it so quickly.

ernie_lynch – Member

“to name a few of the main culprits at present, immigration, benefits, general petty criminals, and your general thieving scum which im sure all of the above are mostly to blame for this looting at present”

What a load of bollox. If you don’t mind being frank.

Sneaky edit fail?

Best typo of the night; Apparently Elfin is entitled to his onion…

Seriously though Elfin, you come across as a very articulate and compassionate person. I think it a great shame that you seem to make the mistake of regarding your opinion of what is right as a fact rather than just opinion, in this instance. I feel that your arguments are somewhat weakened by their preachy, somewhat patronising nature. Maybe try to work on that?

That said, I respect you opinion, even if I disagree with it on this occasion. Regards.

its not true is it! the looters were clearly all middle class hooray henry heroes doing a bit of ‘rebelling’ against the system!

one finger up to the system old boy!

lets just all put this to bed and agree now that the police are to blame!

the looters will soon become national heroes, and the police officers will all be suspended for being terribly harsh!

clear the streets, lets not have any more trouble, let the looters roam free and damage the country to their hearts contents, get their frustrations out on how they have had such a bad life out once and for all!

we neeed more looters!!!!!!!!! the country neeeds youuuuu!!!

Stop making a prat of yourself Oscillate Wildly

Christ. Shut up.

Seriously though Elfin, you come across as a very articulate and compassionate person.

Why thank you.

I think it a great shame that you seem to make the mistake of regarding your opinion of what is right as a fact rather than just opinion, in this instance. I feel that your arguments are somewhat weakened by their preachy, somewhat patronising nature. Maybe try to work on that?

All I have done on this thread is present the Law as it is. I have no doubt that those charged with upholding the Law; police officers, lawyers, judges etc, would agree with me. Of course people can express how they’d like things to be, but if we’re discussing the Law, then it must be understood what the Law actually is!

In this case, I’m presenting facts, not simply onions.

As for ‘patronising’; well, quite frankly, if people want to respond in the manner some of them have, ie in a very rude and insulting manner, then I’ll respond as I see fit. And if that comes across as patronising, then so be it. Take one comment by OW for example, with a suggestion that Lifer and I indulge in a particular form of intimate activity. Is that not just rude and insulting? I think such comments are deserving of contempt, quite frankly. Which is how I’ll treat them.

EDIT: OW appears to have imploded, so probbly best to leave quietly….

just seen on the news the looters pooped their pants when they hit Dalston! sounds about right. Place hasn’t changed much then I gather! Don’t mess with the Turks!

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/08/201181042453833564.html

“Our local shopkeeper refused to close. He said ‘we are Turkish’ as explanation,”

quality.

Easygirl, thank you for the work you’re putting and please ignore the comments of Elfinsafety, he’s a small man seeking a large audience hence the constant provocative comments to get a reaction.

I really wish youd take your views to another forum elfin. You are always stirring, trolling or having a chip on your shoulder. Stw would be a far better place without it.

( yeah I know he’s one of the “regulars” and no doubt the others will leap to his defence but just look at the main posters on threads that go tits up.)

Take one comment by OW for example, with a suggestion that Lifer and I indulge in a particular form of intimate activity. Is that not just rude and insulting?

RESULT!!! 😆

and on that note, nitey nite

ernie_lynch – Member
Stop making a prat of yourself Oscillate Wildly

im just joining in what is the norm on these parts, its top notch i must add!

Fourundred! 😀

We were worried about Dalston, but I thought that the strong Turkish community there would put off any wannabe looters…

Seems to be calming down round here. For the first night in days, there’s no sirens every two seconds….

I really wish youd take your views to another forum elfin. You are always stirring, trolling or having a chip on your shoulder.

Ok, right, and your comment was to do what, exactly? ‘Stirring’, you say? 😕

Think I’ll stay here if it’s all the same to you. Sorry to dissapoint, but quite frankly, who are you to tell me what to do? 🙄

Here’s something a bit less contentious for you:

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/its-elfins-tuesday-architectural-appreciation-thread-towers-and-skyscrapers

Enjoy. 🙂