Blimey. Amazingly never had a prang in all those years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-60159649

……but I bet he’s witnessed plenty.

He must be so tired.

Boom boom.

Car must have been insured in his wifes name or something for the majority of those years surely, he can’t have avoided ANPR for that long unless he doesn’t drive far!

willingly and persistently broke the law? lock him up.

Amazingly never had a prang in all those years.

Most people don’t. Most people get through their life of driving without an accident or with any endorsements – I think its something like 85 percent of people have a completely clean drivers license, as much people who get points for speeding convince themselves everyones doing it. 70 years is plenty of practice 🙂 The time taken to get a license is only a few months really – having got a license doesnt really prove much about more than your basic grasp of driving.

I’m not that surprised he’s driven for that long without a license  – although I’ve used my license in all sorts of circumstances to prove who I am, the only circumstance where I’ve used it to prove I can drive is when I’m hiring vehicles. I’ve never had to provide one to buy a car or insure and tax a car and I don’t think has ever asked me to prove I’m entitled to drive even when driving has actually been a core aspect of my job.

I’m more surprised he’s managed without insurance in this day and age – but least because for most of the time he’s been driving you’d have needed that to stick a tax disk on the windscreen. But thats only proof that the car is insured, not the driver. Even then – I’m normally not asked for my license details when I insure a vehicle – just declare that I have one, even though its me and my driving, rather than the car, thats the greater liability being insured

Car must have been insured in his wifes name or something for the majority of those years surely

You don’t have to have a license to have a V5C though? I presume he wasn’t insured.

You don’t have to have a license to have a V5C though?

Even the V5 isn’t really proof of anything – it makes someone ‘responsible’ for the car, but it doesn’t define who owns it or who drives it

That’s not fair.
I borrowed a mate’s 50cc when I was a yoot and I only got as far as Shipston before the dutty Babylon pulled me 😐

Goes to show that if you drive safely, you don’t get pulled over. ANPR will change that.

My grandad drive for years without a licence. We only found out when my uncle hired a car and tried to put him on the insurance. Apparently he never really learned to read or write so didn’t think he’d be able to apply for the test and lived is a small town so never drove any significant distance and hence got away with it for decades. We did of course help him get his test after that which he sailed through.

My grandad who died at 101 5 years ago had licence but had never sat a test. He just managed to sneak in before the tests started. he got a good 70 years in before sacking off the driving after being involved in two accidents. Neither of which were in anyway his fault!

Standard practice in Belgium.

Standard practice in Belgium

Only partly true :).  My daughter who is learning at the moment has done a bunch of lessons and now has to drive 1000km before she can sit her test.  She can do that by herself – no-one else needs to be in the car.   Ok, she does need to be signed off by her driving instructor that she is capable of that and she isn’t allowed to have anyone in the car that doesn’t have a license but it does feel a little surprising

My grandad also got his license just before the test was introduced, 1937 iirc?
Had one minor scrape in c2005, scraped a piece of farm machinery while reversing.
Stopped driving in 2010, a few months before he died because he couldn’t feel the pedals any more.
So something like 74 years driving.
He did have a license and insurance though.
For most of that time he would rarely go any further than the local town though.

Thousands of people moved to the UK in the 50s & 60s with provisional Republic of Ireland driving licences (different rules over there re: driving on a provisional).  They never went on to sit a UK test or an Irish test, so technically they are driving around without a full licence and have done for 50 years.

I’m sure this is also relevant for lots of other people who started driving outside the UK

My daughter who is learning at the moment has done a bunch of lessons and now has to drive 1000km before she can sit her test.

Wow!
Cart, meet horse 😉
( It is kind of cool though)

For most of that time he would rarely go any further than the local town though.

There was an episode of Police Interceptors or similar which had an old dude (late 80s) picked up on early anpr for no insurance.
When they stopped him, one interviewed him on camera.
“We don’t think you’ve got insurance.”
“Yes, that’s right”
“…and your car’s not taxed”
“No”
“Does it have an MOT?”
“No”
“… do you have a licence?”
“No, it ran out years ago. I only go 1/2 mile to the supermarket once a week and I didn’t think it was worth the bother”

Copper then says, OK, really sorry but we’ll have to seize your car.

Old chap says, no problem, but can you run me home or my frozen stuff will melt.

Quite sweet, but one wonders about the carnage he may have been causing.

It’s a funny story, unless the ending is when he crashes into a family car or runs over a kid.

It’s also a bit of a misnomer that just because he’s old means he’s harmless, most people grow old, whether they are the salt of the earth, or complete scum.

I think its something like 85 percent of people have a completely clean drivers license, as much people who get points for speeding convince themselves everyones doing it.

Yep, driving over 30 years, never had points and only had one parking ticket (in Italy) which our Italian landlady ripped up in disgust before I could do anything saying ‘we never pay parking tickets in Italy’! So there’s an outstanding parking ticket for a 1993 Corsa in Italy somewhere…

but one wonders about the carnage he may have been causing.

The UK driving test is such a low standard that I sometimes wonder if it makes a difference. I am sure there are many people like that guy with no licence who are much better drivers than those with. He was pulled over because of the ANPR after all.

The UK driving test is such a low standard

It certainly was at the point at which he should have been taking it, and I imagine he’s probably as up to date on the highway code as most in his generation of drivers.

I taught my kids to drive a couple of years back and it seems the modern test is a fair bit tougher than the one I took.

My old labourer was the first person done for drink driving in Tayside in the late 60’s. He was driving when I was serving my apprenticeship in the late 80’s and didn’t confess till his retirement smoker mid 90’s that he had never got his licence back because he didn’t feel he should pay for it and it was out there somewhere anyway.Taught me to drive a 7.5 tonner and reverse a trailer well though, also drove and operated a mobile crane during those years. Bet there were loads of folk like that before computers could check in an instant.

The UK driving test is such a low standard

How would you define that? In absolute terms or relative to other countries tests?

The UK has a pretty good road safety track record, compared to other European countries, so what would a tougher test achieve?

The United Kingdom has the second safest roads in Europe, according to figures released by the European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA).

Based on the number of road fatalities per million inhabitants, the UK is ranked second with a figure of 28. Only Sweden’s roads are safer, with 25 road deaths per million people.

Road traffic deaths have been falling in the EU for the past two decades. In 2001, there were 54,900 fatalities. By 2017, this had fallen to 25,300, which means the EU has the safest roads in the world.

However, data from CARE (EU Road Accidents Database) shows that 70 people still die every day on the roads of Europe.

Many road incidents are linked to human error, with 10-30 percent of them caused by distraction. It is for this reason that several driver assistance systems will soon become mandatory.

Driver drowsiness and distraction warnings, intelligent speed assistance, reversing sensors or cameras, lane-keeping assistance and advanced emergency braking are just some of the systems that will become mandatory from 2022.

Road fatalities are at their highest in the eastern regions of Europe. Romania has the worst record, with 99 fatalities per million inhabitants. Reasons for this, include the poor condition of the road network and the reliance on older, less safe vehicles.

https://www.wdm.co.uk/news/uk-second-safest-roads-in-europe

dutty Babylon

What exactly does this mean? Google just gives me some reggae on you tube, which is perfomed in a patois that I don’t understand.

My grandad never took a test. Didn’t know there was a before tests time, I thought it was a military service thing ‘heres your uniform, rifle, license to drive the landy, now go kill some nazis’

He was pulled over because of the ANPR after all.

There’s seriously bad drivers who won’t be picked up by ANPR as their details will be fine. They also can not be seen by the police driving badly so not be stopped. He could have been an amazing driver or absolutely shocking.

How would you define that? In absolute terms or relative to other countries tests?

A sweeping statement certainly. However I would define it by the awful standard of driving I see daily that I would attribute to a poor testing regimen.

He could have been an amazing driver or absolutely shocking.

Absolutly, I was making the point that at the time he was observed his driving presumably met the required standard or he would have been seen first and this would have been pointed out by the officers. I am not defending this. I am saying I don’t believe the UK test is rigorous enough. There should definitely be frequent retests and punitive fines for poor driving.

You know all those people that moan about cyclists, saying they should take a test and have a number plate…..
This old guy is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to unlicensed drivers.

I thought it was a military service thing ‘heres your uniform, rifle, license to drive the landy,

I knew an old guy who had this. After WW2 but he was in the army and told to drive a truck, said he couldn’t drive so they handed him a license and said “you can now”.

dutty Babylon

What exactly does this mean?

Police. Sorry. 😉

It’s surprising it’s never been picked up by ANPR. When my car was stolen the police were quite confident that it hadn’t been driven into Nottingham because they would have picked it up on ANPR. And once they identified the false plates via a mismatch between the tax disc and plates just outside Lincoln they managed to track it all the way into Bestwood where they picked it up on someone’s drive.

This old guy is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to unlicensed drivers.

It’s a lot cheaper to drive around uninsured and pay the fine if/when you’re caught than it is to buy insurance every year – especially if you’re a young driver. Chances of actually being caught are minimal, fines are a few hundred £.

Drive a reasonably sensible car (not some absolute wreck or a really bling high end thing), drive sensibly – nothing to attract suspicion.

Same with DQ’d drivers. There’s a small chance that the plate of their car might be on ANPR but if they’re driving a different vehicle, there’d be nothing to flag up that they shouldn’t be behind the wheel.

dutty Babylon

What exactly does this mean?

Police. Sorry. 😉

I understood to whom you were refering, I was more interested in the literal translation.

I knew an old guy who had this. After WW2 but he was in the army and told to drive a truck, said he couldn’t drive so they handed him a license and said “you can now”.

Actually now i think about it there was alittle more to the story.

the test was optional in 34 and mandatory in 35. HE got his licence, presumably as a “good idea” before the test was mandatory. When he actually learned to drive was later when he was taught by a girl who needed someone in the car with a licence to practice 😀

Guardian reporting no insurance on this one and car seized.

t’s a lot cheaper to drive around uninsured and pay the fine if/when you’re caught than it is to buy insurance every year – especially if you’re a young driver. Chances of actually being caught are minimal, fines are a few hundred £.

And the car is taken off you and its then on the ANPR database so you will get pulled all the time, and you get points on your license leading to a ban if caught twice

It’s a lot cheaper to drive around uninsured and pay the fine if/when you’re caught than it is to buy insurance every year – especially if you’re a young driver. Chances of actually being caught are minimal, fines are a few hundred £.

Except that’s actually not true. If the police believe you aren’t insured at the roadside they will impound the car and you will need to produce insurance and pay the recovery / storage costs (usually a couple of hundred quid if you get there the next day). In addition the fixed penalty for driving without insurance is £300 and 6pts. Any new driver then has to retake their test. If you get caught twice in 3 years you can’t accept the fixed penalty because you will be a totter – you will get banned for 6 months and at court almost always walk away fined more than the fixed penalty. Add to that no insurance being one of the things insurers hate to see on your license and you’ll find it even more expensive to get insured. And those fines apply every time you get caught. Sometimes people have been done twice in the same day! Your insurance is usually for a year so £300+ / day v’s an annual policy is not quite the bargain you are claiming.

Drive a reasonably sensible car (not some absolute wreck or a really bling high end thing), drive sensibly – nothing to attract suspicion.

That might have worked 10 yrs ago but now most traffic cars have ANPR that will ping if they pass an uninsured vehicle, and of course you’d have to hope nobody crashes into you too.

Same with DQ’d drivers. There’s a small chance that the plate of their car might be on ANPR but if they’re driving a different vehicle, there’d be nothing to flag up that they shouldn’t be behind the wheel.

That is true. Except if someone tips them off, or you are well enough known to the local constabulary to be spotted as a known disqualified driver. Given driving whilst disqualified can result in a custodial sentence its a high stakes game you are suggesting.

And the car is taken off you and its then on the ANPR database so you will get pulled all the time, and you get points on your license leading to a ban if caught twice

I thought they factored that in. New car for £500 every few years is cheaper than insurance. Points – I doubt they care, can’t put points on if they don’t have a licence. If they are happy to not pay road tax, insurance or not have a licence I really don’t think a driving ban will stop them.

In my head I have an excerpt of Jamie Theakston narrating “ he was charged with driving whist serving a ban and was given 6 points on his licence” ( from road wars)

most traffic cars

I live 3 minutes walk from a police station which I drive past twice a day. There are always 5-6 cars outside (and I can see the armed response vehicles in the protected yard when I walk past) but I rarely see them on the road. This is the problem these people can get away with it because there are not enough officers and they are given other priorities when on duty.

This is the problem these people can get away with it because there are not enough officers and they are given other priorities when on duty.

Theoretically the PCC should have some say into policing priorities, and as they are an elected official they might listen if a lot of people write/email complaining about lack of road policing.

There’s some stat about a large proportion of people pulled for no tax/no insurance are also wanted for something else, and I’d have thought this stuff has a good cleanup rate.