Lightweight eMTB systems – Specialized vs TQ vs Bosch

I tried all three of these recently, and here’s what I thought of them. Interested in any comments from owners or anyone else who’s tried them. Neither is full stop better than the others overall, and I feel there’s something suboptimal you’d have to put up with with any of them. I’m not really sold on any of them but the Specialized felt like the most mature product – shame I didn’t gel with the bike (Turbo Levo SL) it comes in.

Bike design

Specialized SL 1.2 and TQ HPR50 – minimal impact.

Bosch Performance Line SX – clear bulge. Chainstays shorter than 450mm seem to require a 27.5″ rear wheel.

Motor performance

Specialized – 50 Nm, 320 W. Stronger than the others starting off, low cadence moves, or being in the wrong gear. Trail and turbo modes felt very similar.

TQ – 50 Nm, 300 W. Feels slightly weaker than the Specialized, especially so in tech climbs where you’re pausing/resuming pedaling; easier to stall.

Bosch – 55 Nm, 600 W. Cadence required for the big power isn’t abnormally high. Can proper blast fire roads, and point and shoot tech climbs without much technique.

Motor feel

Specialized – very intuitive engaging and disengaging, good modulation for slow speed situations.

TQ – not quite as in sync with pedal inputs as the Specialized.

Bosch – bit of an on-off feel compared to the others. More overrun after stopping pedaling.

Motor other

TQ – IP67 rated (can be submerged to a metre for half an hour).

Bosch – incessant noisy clutch rattle while descending. 4 power modes rather than 3.

Battery

Specialized – 320 Wh.

TQ – 360 Wh. Easily removable so good for swapping two on centre-based days or charging in B&Bs.

Bosch – 400 Wh.

Battery extender

Specialized – 160 Wh, 1 kg.

TQ – 160 Wh, 1 kg. Some bikes can accommodate it at the same time as a water bottle.

Bosch – 250 Wh, 1.6kg. Some bikes can accommodate it at the same time as a water bottle.

Efficiency / range

Specialized & TQ – about the same.

Bosch – you can quickly rinse the battery if you want to. Total capacity with extender is 25% more than the others.

Bar remote

Specialized – buttons are well separated and easy to distinguish. Needs a deliberate press, has a definitive click feel and an audible beep. You can also go into an extra mode where assistance can be adjusted in 10% increments.

TQ – toggle with a fixed bit in the middle. Quite a light press and a quieter beep. Can be accidentally pressed to change mode, but needs a long press to turn off the assistance. Not wireless so you have a cable taped to either the brake hose or the handlebar.

Bosch – chunky unit sticking out more and wider. Very light press like a laptop touchpad, all too easy to accidentally change modes or turn assistance off, which can be quite startling although you could move it inboard. Barely any click feel, and no beep.

Top tube display

Specialized – colour matrix display, can show a wide variety of layouts and information.

TQ – fixed layout for dotted text display and fixed symbols, one colour. Symbols for the different power modes are difficult to distinguish at a glance.

Bosch – two-colour five-bar display showing battery level to nearest 10%. Colour top bit shows current power mode.

I’ve heard about the Bosch rattle on a review for the new norco fluid vlt and wondered if it wasn’t as bad as that but the fact you’ve highlighted it as well, I’m even more convinced it would drive me bonkers!

Just found this video, haven’t watched it all but I’d say the bit starting at 5:45 to 6:30 gives a good representation of the rattling. The bit at 6:20 is ridiculous and the kind of roughness I had it (not this bike) on, just imagine that for a several minute descent.

For the Bosch to put out 600W with a max torque of 55nm the cadence would need to be at least 104rpm.

Oh yes, my observation was only that you can get a lot more power out of it without resorting to crazy cadence.

I did those calculations earlier.

Specialized – 320 W at 61.

TQ – 300 W at 57.

Bosch – 350 W at 61, 400 W at 69, 500 W at 87, and 600 W at 104.

I’ve heard about the Bosch rattle on a review for the new norco fluid vlt and wondered if it wasn’t as bad as that but the fact you’ve highlighted it as well, I’m even more convinced it would drive me bonkers!

I had a quick play on a Whyte eLyte the other week. Ok so I didn’t take it down a bumpy trail like in the video above, but didn’t notice any untoward rattles when I jumped it off a few kerbs and bunnyhopped it. Certainly it felt quieter and less rattly than the EP8’s I’ve owned or ridden. Seems to be that “some are, some aren’t” from what I’ve seen and heard.

My Bosch CX is near silent when descending, at least when I’m not pedalling that is. TQ is easily the quietest motor out there, but you pay for that in terms of power and efficiency it seems though sadly.

If I was in the market for a lighter eBike again, Bosch SX motor would be my top pick still from my limited experience of each system.

Heres a few other observations Ive made from owning a trek fuel exe (tq motor) and looking at some other bikes

– The Specialized and the TQ motor can be run on just the range extender, ie main battery removed. Removing the main battery in the specialized required dropping the motor, so not a 2 minute job, but this approach does give a very modular approach to battery capacity. eg in the case of the tq system you can have a bike with 160wh, 360wh, or 520wh, and a corresponding variety of weights.

– The specialised and TQ range extender batteries are 160wh (as you note) – 160wh batteries can be taken on aeroplanes (in hand luggage) – so combined with the fact that the bikes can run only on the range extender, means you can more easily take your ebike abroad. Ok, so you have a very reduced range, but this I have found this useful.

– The TQ system has two versions of the display (not sure what version you tested – but I think it was the default TQ one?). DIsplays on the trek TQ bikes are a trek specific display,which might be a bit clearer to read than the TQ display.

– Its possible to remove the handlebar remote from the TQ system and still operate it using just the display – using the app you enable “extended center button” functioonality, this lets you change assist modes with a single click of the button on the display, and change display screens with a double click. – useful to know if you smash the remote control up mid ride!

– I think all the systems can hook up to a bike computer or smart watch using ant+ or bluetooth to display certain metrics on the bike computer/watch , things like battery percentage, candence, speed,power, range .

– There was a recent software update for the tq motor to enable switching assist modes using wireless ant+ – currently there are no wireless remotes to take advantage of this, but maybe that means one is comign soon?

– The recently release trek slash+ uses the tq hpr 50 system but has an even bigger 580wh battery, but is also compatible with the original 360wh battery.

I’ve got the Bosch SX on my gravel bike and super impressed so far.  The phone app allows a choice of 4 power settings from a list of 8 and each one can be tweaked for Assistance, Dynamic pedalling and Max torque.  I ride most of the time on Eco with Assistance and Dynamic pedalling  on -3 (range between -5 and +5) and I’m getting a theoretical range of ~100 miles for a 400 wh battery.

I test road Whyte E-Lyte, Specialized Levo SL, Orbea Rise/s a couple of months ago.

The Shimano was the most natural feeling and powerful, the Bosch the most refined, the Levo the most weird.

The Bosch motor was the most refined, which is a hard thing to describe, but the equivalent of say a BMW/Merc over a Ford. Does the same job, but just slightly better in every way. However it made a weird noise when you stopped pedalling, and was the only motor to go into limp mode on the test route.

The Levo SL just simply felt outdated as though the competition has moved on. Great initial pickup (quite unnatural, but beneficial) . No tangible  difference between Med and High settings. No guts on long steep climbs compared to the other motors. The noisiest motor. The Levo SL was the bike I preferred out of them all, but the motor and battery combo was outdated and out gunned

I think I would buy a bike with the Bosch, but then the Shimano gives you full 85nm, and it looks like a few motors about to hit the market too will wipe the floor with the Bosch. As these bikes are so expensive I would wait and see what comes out rather than the Bosch

I rode both the Spesh Levo Sl and Kenevo SL (along with an Orbea Rise), I bought the Kenevo SL – felt more like my LLS Cotic and less of a trail bike plus why wouldn’t I want the extra suspension travel.

18 months and +2500 miles later, still like riding it.

I think I would buy a bike with the Bosch, but then the Shimano gives you full 85nm, and it looks like a few motors about to hit the market too will wipe the floor with the Bosch. As these bikes are so expensive I would wait and see what comes out rather than the Bosch

Agree with that, right now bosch looks best, but unless I wanted something right now, I’d probably wait and see what the DJI motor/bike is like.

Mind you maybe the smart choice is to buy the “old” tech spesh sl 2 or tq hpr 50 at a significant discount compared to the newer stuff and have £3-4k more cash sat in your bank account .

Good thread this, well done.

I’m not there yet (enjoying flogging myself chasing mates on their nasty heavy full fat ebikes using my own leg power) but if/when I do go ebike then the TQ has been the one thats piqued my interest the most, particularly the Scott Lumen but its also used in some European brands we dont here that look great.

I think if you’re used to full fat eBikes then he TQ will be pretty underwhelming

I tried the Fuel EXe, and it’s a very nice bike and very impressive in a lot of ways, but when you actually want the power there really isn’t much of it there.

Edit – ah, I misread – you’re chasing full fat bikes. Well, if they decide to stop taking it easy on you because you have a TQ bike – you might still struggle 🙂

@honourablegeorge Its the struggle I’m enjoying! I’m getting fitter and faster as everyone around me is more and more reliant on their motors.

Right- but having long been the lad trying to keep up, and now having a full fat bike – if you’re a non ebiler riding with eBikes – they are slowing down to wait for you. EBike only rides are an entirely different speed to mixed rides

I have a Bosch.

The only thing you can connect it to is Bosch’s own display or a phone running the app.
You can’t use Garmin or any other ANT+ device.

@HoratioHufnagel really?! So it doesnt have a display giving you actual percentage rather than just bars, which lets face it could be quite a range? and then they dont let you connect it to the garmin which would display percentage? Seems like an oversight. That video would be murder riding in the Lakes, previous orbea rise shimano was awful enough already.

@bikesandboots now go ride the fazua and the shimano version and add those comparisons too!

The TQ system has two versions of the display (not sure what version you tested – but I think it was the default TQ one?). DIsplays on the trek TQ bikes are a trek specific display,which might be a bit clearer to read than the TQ display.

Yes the default one with concentric circles displaying the modes. Didn’t realise the Trek was different, it does seem better as it has a horizontal 3 piece bar.

All my mates now have e-bikes (Orbea Rise) so riding with them now is hard going.  I’m probably 70% towards plumping for one, and had sort of set my heart on the Fuel exe.  It just strikes me at the moment that we are still very much in the infancy of this market, and I also don’t know how long the good deals are going to go on for, once perhaps oversupply/production matches actual demand.  There also seems to be something on the horizon worth waiting for, and the lack of interchangeable and upgradable motors and batteries makes me worry of obsolete technology problems with ownership/servicing. They are undoubtedly quite an investment, so taking a punt is a costly choice.

I did see one of these top spec whtye bikes in a shop, looks great but £10k!

Agree with that, right now bosch looks best, but unless I wanted something right now, I’d probably wait and see what the DJI motor/bike is like.

Mind you maybe the smart choice is to buy the “old” tech spesh sl 2 or tq hpr 50 at a significant discount compared to the newer stuff and have £3-4k more cash sat in your bank account .

I too am inclined to wait for something better to come out, considering the money even after discount. I liked the SL 1.2 but not the Turbo Levo SL. If I had to buy now I’d go TQ.

The TQ has been out since mid-2022 so could be due an update. Specialized SL 1.2 and Bosch SX are last year so might be a while until an update comes and filters through to being available on bikes.

@golfchick Bosch’s own displays (Kiox) show battery percentage yes, not all come with a display though and you can’t connect to Garmin to show a percentage, only the Bosch Flow app.

@bikesandboots now go ride the fazua and the shimano version and add those comparisons too!

I didn’t try those as I’d have no intention of buying, I’ve heard enough about them.

Don’t want to be like some influencer wannabe journalist test pilot wasting people’s time.

Dont forget the Shimano motor comes with freeshift and autoshift too, and I think the DJI will have something similar ?

Sounds gimmicky, but it is the way the tech is going.

It just strikes me at the moment that we are still very much in the infancy of this market

I would agree with that I think we are still in the early days of iPhones where each one was a big step.

Just a pity that non of them are paying attention to reliability or backwards compatibility

The TQ has been out since mid-2022 so could be due an update.

you could be right – but trek have just announced their slash+ that uses that motor,albeit with a bigger battery, so I’d be surprised if a new one was coming very soon

@GolfChick at full charge the 5 lit bars are all blue but at 90% the first bar turns white then at 80% turns off so you end up getting 10% granularity which I’m finding ok.

This may not be highly useful input, since I can’t talk about all 3 systems. But I’ve recently bought a Mondraker Neat RR with the TQ motor. I was a bit of an EBike sceptic. My friends would probably say that’s an understatement. The reason I bough the Neat was because reaching the start of the trails behind my new apartment takes a 75 minute climb. And I started to dream about having the ability to go beyond that point, rather than being physically knackered by the time I reach the trailhead!

anyway, sorry for rambling. I wanted to say that I could not be happier with the Neat. It looks like an ordinary bike. I can lift it onto my car roof carrier. I can easily lift it over fences if need be. I very rarely use the turbo mode. I have a range extender, but haven’t needed it yet. I expect that I won’t really find the limit of the range until the chairlifts close for the season in September.

when descending, I’m delighted that the Neat just feels like an ordinary bike. In fact, it feels absolutely fabulous. I find that I’m grinning even more on my Neat than my other bikes.

anyway, sorry for rambling again. I bought the Neat due to 1) the removable battery (I have no way to charge in the garage) and 2) the fact that I can ride the Neat as a regular bike without the battery if I want (which I have done for a day around the bike park).

I could not be happier with the Neat

Great bike. It does have headset cable routing, but half the options in this class have it too so it’s difficult for buyers to rule out a bike based on it.

Also maybe you’d be even happier if it was possible to change the rear brake pads without removing the caliper from the frame to get at the pad retention bolt! But that can be forgiven in the grand scheme of things.

I wanted to get the Neat, removal battery is brilliant

But just beyond what I need in a bike ie too Enduro

Great thread.

I’m really interested in anything with the new ZF motor. With their experience making fantastic gearboxes plus all kind of robotic stuff I reckon it will be amazing.

Maybe more of a full fat thing but I’ll share it anyway…

It’s a tricky dilemma and a numbers game IMHO. Bigger numbers are better because, well, moar. Bigger batteries or a battery + extender give moar range and moar weight. 120Nm motor… obviously moar but there is nothing I’ve failed to climb with a Brose Mag and 90Nm dialled down as it just loops the bike out on steep stuff.

Then, Pedelecs are speed limited…. you’re not going any faster with 120Nm, its capped at 25kmh. Think Farrari and actual usable day to day power… having said that the DJI bike does look interesting from a battery / energy density pov as that does really cut weight.

I’m really interested in anything with the new ZF motor. With their experience making fantastic gearboxes plus all kind of robotic stuff I reckon it will be amazing.

https://www.raymon-bicycles.com/en/Kollektion-2025/Tarok/

I do hope they’re working with another manufacturer for the launch too.

Some engineering chat with ZF people about the motor here. Maybe the rivals will looks like fools or Nokia when this comes out.

ZF looks very cool. I’m really puzzled as to how it’s anchored in the frame though.  What stops it trying to turn the body of the motor? They say the cradle bolts are only 4nm – I don’t get how that works.

But the focus on ‘immediate torque as soon as you turn the pedal’ and ‘overrun’ and peak power makes e-biking ever less like riding a bike.  (grumble grumble luddite grumble).

I guess efficiency and reliability are the two unknowns (and I guess it’s a few years away).

ZF looks very cool. I’m really puzzled as to how it’s anchored in the frame though. What stops it trying to turn the body of the motor? They say the cradle bolts are only 4nm – I don’t get how that works

I read in an article that theres a kind of woodruff key to stop it rotating, and to ensure it gets mounted in the correct orientation.

That’s my point, I’ve just watched that ZF video and now think that it looks like a brilliant motor and system…..so I’ll wait for a bike with that to come out. TBH, I have heard of ZF so they probably do know their engineering, and hardly an upstart in the motor world.

It does also make you wonder if there was a ZF board meeting, say four years ago, where it was agreee that cycling was going to be on a never ending boom and they need a piece of that action. Fast forward to the current day, and the market has flopped and I’d be curious what sort of numbers they now expect to sell in such a crowded market.  I can’t imagine one system ever having a monopoly, but some point maybe manufacturers just think R&D isn’t worth it and development stagnates.  I see a larger market in electric leisure/city bikes where just a bit of natural assistance is needed, so less demand for motors with so much grunt that you can wheelie up rock gardens for the enduro bro. Albeit that would be fun.

Apparently this is not ZF’s first attempt at an ebike motor, apparently they did one back in 2018, I hadnt heard of it, I guess it didnt really go anywhere.

At Eurobike 2018, ZF presented their first ebike motor as part of a joint venture between Magura, BFO and BMZ: The Sachs RS

DIsplays on the trek TQ bikes are a trek specific display,which might be a bit clearer to read than the TQ display.

The standard display is known as V01 and the one on Treks as V02, which suggested it was simply an updated version. I asked TQ whether it could be fitted as an upgrade – the answer was no. It’s the same hardware but the software is different and Trek-specific.

I too am inclined to wait for something better to come out,

I trawled the VitalMTB tech rumours thread. Possible Trek Fuel EXe refresh with compatibility for the 580Wh battery as seen in the Slash+. Bosch 5th generation CX, I guess the next SX is some way behind given it only launched a year ago.

I hadn’t seen the ZF video, thanks.

Still intend that my next eBike will be one with a gearbox and I’ll have no need to be bothered with mechs & cassettes – accept that it’ll be dearer to buy but far, far cheaper to run.

As this may be a useful thread for people facing a decision.

Range extender charging

Specialized – can buy a Y splitter cable.

TQ – extender has two power ports, plug charger into one and it’ll pass through power to the bike to charge that first.

Bosch – you’d need two chargers.

Bar remote width

This is relevant because it may mean you have to compromise on one or more of: remote position (you may or may not want it nearest the grip (to avoid accidental presses), but also not too far inboard out of easy reach), brake levers position, dropper position, and left/right symmetry of brake position (I found my brake levers guide how I position my hands so it’s a must to be symmetric). It’s probably easier if you don’t have everything on separate bar clamps, and where you want brake/shifter/dropper clamps for the same finger position will vary depending on their brand.

Specialized – quite wide

TQ –  15mm, the narrowest

Bosch – probably the widest

Personally from the times I’ve ridden e-bikes I would have my brakes, shifter and dropper in the optimum position and then fit the ebike bar remote as near as I could to best position because I use it a lot less than anything else. If I had to I’d accept it being mounted where I needed to remove my hand from the grip if that was the only way. I don’t really use it that much apart from turning it on and off or occasionally switch modes. A better made version of the Fazua Ring would be nice