My employer wouldn’t count that as working time if I did do work on the train (and there is a limited amount I could do) so I’d still have to do my 8 hours in the office on top. So for me there would be no saving by working on the train.

Seems a bit unfair and backward of your employer to not allow you to count that as working time. I have encountered companies like this and it’s a shame that flexible working isn’t more widely available and accepted, especially considering the potential cost savings associated with it.

If your happy spending two hours a day commuting by car then so be it. I personally think it’s a shame and I’d struggle to justify it to myself, but I’m not 100% convinced I’m in a position to judge your choices…

Peyote – Member
The use of private personal motorised transport has become the default option, despite in a huge number of instances it being more expensive, more time consuming, more polluting and more detrimental to society.

That is completely at odds with my experience of public transport. Also, relaxing or working on a train is an impossibility in my experience. I don’t think in the two years I commuted by train that I ever got a seat. Even if you did they are too cramped to work or relax in.

The only time public transport has ever worked for me has been within the confines of a city. Notably the mighty No. 8 bus in London. Wait a few minutes at most, and occasionally even get a seat.

Seems a bit unfair and backward of your employer to not allow you to count that as working time. I have encountered companies like this and it’s a shame that flexible working isn’t more widely available and accepted, especially considering the potential cost savings associated with it.

My employer is generally pretty good with things but as a manufacturing company there is a requirement for me to the at the factory to do a lot of my work. I don’t have enough work that I could do off site to fill 3.5 hours every day (and in reality with train changes etc it would be nowhere near this amount that would get done).

I’m not happy spending the time commuting, I much rather not have to (as my last job 5 minutes on the bike from home) but I need a job and wouldn’t move to the area I got one in. Driving is the least worst option in this case.

but when I catch the train I often take work with me

I do this too.. but I’m a brickie.. which pleases the other passengers no end..

Most of the rail lines in the South East are already running at capacity. Should ex-drivers hang onto the outside of the carriages, or stop working for a decade whilst they wait for new lines to be built?

Public transport is only an efficient choice if you want to travel in the same direction as the existing routes. As soon as you diverge the journey time vastly escalates.

I do this too.. but I’m a brickie.. which pleases the other passengers no end..

😆

A full brick hod is nothing, try getting a folding bike on a busy train, then you’ll see real abuse!

Most of the rail lines in the South East are already running at capacity. Should ex-drivers hang onto the outside of the carriages, or stop working for a decade whilst they wait for new lines to be built?

Somewhat melodramatic! Why don’t you go the whole hog and accuse all those who think car use should be limited of wanting us all to live in caves, eat berries and wear hessian sacks*?!

*Standard MO.

Slightly more seriously though, most of the roads in the South East are already running at capacity too. The whole transport network is at the tipping point. The point is we all need to travel less. Mode shift is good, but if we’re all making the same journeys the current network is in just as much trouble.

I don’t think in the two years I commuted by train that I ever got a seat. Even if you did they are too cramped to work or relax in.

I use a Blackberry, so even while standing on a train (I can’t remember the last time I sat down on a commuter train either) I can easily deal with e-mails. Even reading paperwork (A4 size) isn’t too difficult standing up, it becomes a bit more problematic standing on a platform as a train hurtles past at 50mph, but thems the breaks!

I struggle with long sentences, but it is possible to drive a car safely, is it not?

I used to have a ninety minute each way daily commute (folding bike & train), then went to just doing that once a week, then fortnightly, then monthly, then barely once a quarter. Now I have a five minute off-road MTB commute. Clearly everyone needs to follow my example…

I do still own a (n old) car and couldn’t do without it.

Clearly everyone needs to follow my example

I’m sure we would if we could.

You can.

You can tell a lot of people on this thread haven’t commuted for an extended period on the London underground.

It’s horrible…people are rude and aggressive, it stinks, it’s too hot, it’s overcrowded, trains are often delayed (especially on the Jubilie line), you’re lucky to get a seat, and it’s expensive. Quite often I’ll end up crammed in a corner bent double with someone’s smelly armpit in my face and another elbow jabbing me in the ribs just to get to the damned thing. I’ve encountered many rude people who work for London Underground and Southwest trains, but as soon as you talk back to them they threaten you with police action and state a zero tolerance policy for aggressive passengers. Then the gits go on strike for more money and they earn more than nurses already! I then have to look for alternative transport out of my own pocket.

I’d like to avoid the underground as I HATE IT, but Southwest Trains will not let me take my bike (unless I buy a Brompton or something) on their trains at peak time. I could cycle to my office from home but it would be a 52km round trip, and i live in London! I’m not a morning person so doubt I would have the energy for that every day, so might have to take the train sometimes, but that costs in the region of £15 per day.

Anyone who ‘doesn’t mind’ commuting in London has the patience of a saint (but then I don’t have much patience at all!).

My annual train fare to get to work is £1,800. I also have a car as a necessity for personal transport so I’m not in the fortunate position of being able to avoid the cost of car ownership.

I can what? Work from home?

Ok, I’ll let my employer know. Hope he doesn’t fire me.

Southwest Trains will not let me take my bike (unless I buy a Brompton or something)

Then buy one..?

Molgrips – What does I struggle with long sentences mean?

Just get a job closer to home. Or move house.

Then buy one..?

I would, but I don’t want one.

Just get a job closer to home. Or move house.

Can’t.

My industry and line of work is primarily based in central London and Canary Wharf, and property in Central London/Canary Wharf is on the wrong side of f’ing expensive.

McHamish – I don’t envy you. Isn’t there anything you could do to improve your lot? Move out of The Smoke? Change jobs? Push your employer for flexible working and work at home/another office (if you work at a large enough organsiation)? Eat a sizeable breakfast, pump yourself full of Espressos and commute your 26km in the morning?

I do a 52 mile round commute once or twice a week and it’s a bit of killer getting started at 6:30am, but after the first 10 mins I wouldn’t change it!

You can.

I would, but I don’t want one.

Sounds like you could really use one though. I don’t particularly like the things but if it meant I could choose between a nasty tube commute or a bike ride I’d be there like a shot.

I struggle with long sentences = I’m not reading all that stuff, a somewhat unkind (sorry) way of saying you aren’t prepared to plough through four pages of stuff when you come late to a thread.

GG you gonna be useful on this thread or just distill everything to two useless words?

You can.

ok.

The level of car obsession on this forum never ceases to amaze/dissapoint me. Lots of bull being talked on both sides of the argument. But the figures you can’t get away from are that more than 2000 people every year are killed by motor vehicles. Oh and that other little “fossile fuels running out” problem, maybe consider climate change while your at it. car love argument is starting to look a little shaky eh?

And I’m not saying ban cars outright, I’m saying sort out transport properly.

I’ll say it again. Get a job closer to home, or move house. Just don’t whinge when there is something you can do about the situation.

Sounds like you could really use one though. I don’t particularly like the things but if it meant I could choose between a nasty tube commute or a bike ride I’d be there like a shot.

I’m contemplating getting some road tyres for my MTB (it’s an FS but I can lock out the suspension) and trying the long commute. I don’t really like riding on busy roads in London, but I’d get used to it I suppose.

If it’s not too bad maybe I could justify a decent road bike to make it easier.

My job is sooooo busy at the moment though…doing long days too often! Not sure if I could handle a 25k morning and evening too!

I’d love to find a relaxing career that doesn’t include working in London (such as photography – I like that), but it’s not as easy as that.

Unfortunately trains and buses don’t run on fresh air… I’d like to see their CO2 per passenger mile – once you figure in all the empty off-peak use, and the inefficiency of power generation and distribution for electric trains then I can’t see it making particularly green reading.

I’ll say it again. Get a job closer to home, or move house. Just don’t whinge when there is something you can do about the situation.

Brilliant. Why didn’t I think of that.

Thanks for your help. I’m going to quit today.

Honestly, Bromptons are great fun for sprinting around London – quick steering and acceleration plus upright position for better visibility.

Honestly, Bromptons are great fun for sprinting around London – quick steering and acceleration plus upright position for better visibility.

Maybe I’ll see if I can borrow one.

Thanks for the useful contribution to the discussion.

I don’t live in London but I visit fairly frequently on business. My observation as someone reasonably neutral (being a cyclist and a car-driver) is that while no doubt a significant proportion of car v bike accidents are the fault of the car driver there must also be a lot where the cyclist is at fault, given the very, very low regard a lot of London cyclists appear to have for their own safety given the way they ride.

Why don’t you then? It’s your choice. Go on, get a new job, close to home, ride your bike there every day. It is a free country after all.

Sorry to hear that OP, but to put it into perspective, in 1992 a rider crashed at the MK Bowl circuit races and suffered the exact same injuries as your friend.

I’d also like to point out that there are many who have no option but to use a car to commute. I’ve also come to the conclusion that many of the STWers here are office based and have facilities to clean up after a ride in.
Two example just from my familly. I have to use a car because I carry goods, and to many I just look like a bloke using a car for commuting purposes only. My wife could commute in, but couldn’t commute back again because of her hours.

Cars though! problem is we want the best of both worlds but not the bit inbetween. We want the money that the cities offer us, but we don’t want to live in them. So we live in villages, which in turn turns them into dead useless chocolate box villages because every day we take ourselves and our money elsewhere.
But that’s freedom of choice which every man on here advocates, except from the freedom of choice when it comes to using a car.

And I’m sorry to say it, but the Jumping red lights thread is still in the back of my head.

McHamish – Southwest trains rent Bromptons – that is why you occasionally see ones in SWT colors.

Check the lost property area at Waterloo.

Unfortunately trains and buses don’t run on fresh air… I’d like to see their CO2 per passenger mile – once you figure in all the empty off-peak use, and the inefficiency of power generation and distribution for electric trains then I can’t see it making particularly green reading.

It’s all relative though, compared to cycling and walking then yes, it won’t look good. Compared to private car use it’s entirely dependent on the examples you choose, e.g. electric train powered on electricity generated from renewable sources at peak capacity compared to a diesel one running at 11:00pm. Plus it’s often forgotten that fossil fuels have to be dug out of the ground, porcessed and transported to where they’re going to be used. With a network of petrol stations this is going to be vastly more energy intensive than shipping it all to a lower number of consupmtion points (power stations). Then you’ve got the energy required to build the things in the first place, recycle them after they’ve reached the end of their lives think how many trains there are compared to cars, the relative sizes of each of them and the length of their lives. This is before even considering the infrastructure on which they run – roads and railways, stations and car parks etc…

Good luck on finding figures for all of that!

Cool – don’t let the steering freak you out! Relax and look ahead and they only start getting a bit hairy once you’re the far side of 30mph.

The London commute is rough but you never know what might turn up in the future. Having my clown bike knocked almost an hour off my daily travel time though.

But the figures you can’t get away from are that more than 2000 people every year are killed by motor vehicles.

Everything has risks. I’ve driven 300k+ miles and I’ve never been injured, never mind killed.

I bet if I did 300k miles on a mountainbike I’d be dead. 🙂

Cars aren’t dangerous, they’re just common (because they’re useful).

yep – watch that twitchy folding bike steering – if allowed it will whip round quick and then dump you promptly straight downwards – which is how I broke my collarbone and haven’t cycled for 6 months 🙁

To the OP, I hope your friend makes a speedy recovery. A friend of mine was run over by a dustbin lorry whilst commuting in central London, and I mean RUN OVER – he almost lost his leg from the knee down – hasn’t ridden on the road since. I don’t think I should be asking for a ban on dustbin lorries. Accidents do sadly happen. Ride defensively, obey the Highway code and assume every vehicle hasn’t seen you is my philosophy.

Having just come back from Amsterdam, somewhere with proper public transport, we used trains and trams exclusively. Traveled with the family to Wageningen for an evening at a cost of 83 Euros return for 70km. Now a hire car plus fuel would have been a little cheaper for the four of us. But the trains just work. Amsterdam to Schiphol is 4 Euros, Heathrow express… £18 (single). That’s just embarrassing.

I think public transport boils down to culture and capacity. We don’t have either in the South East.

I’ll say it again. Get a job closer to home, or move house.

That can actually be quite difficult to actually do though.

And it’s all very well to accuse us of greed for wanting the money that cities offer, but it’s not like there are lots of low paid jobs in the countryside is it? There are not that many jobs of any kind.

Unfortunately trains and buses don’t run on fresh air… I’d like to see their CO2 per passenger mile

Did you google for those stats? I’m sure I’ve seen them.

I like this forum it generally contains useful info and experience about mountain bikes/biking in general, but theres a lot of self righteous pompus balls spouted on it a lot of the time.

To answer the OP, I drive to work because I enjoy it, and can afford to do it. If I enjoyed cycling to work as much or more, then I’d do that instead. These are the same reasons as why I go mountain biking, and do many other things, that no doubt lots of people on here would consider unethical/environmentally unfriendly/right wing/left wing/pointless etc (delete as you find appropriate). I dont have a reason that could be considered ‘worthy’ or righteous, and nor do I need one.

A lot of people on here need to learn some tolerance towards others choices.