Lap timing at big mass start events frequently leads to complaints about inaccuracy.
So, how about a different way of doing it;
This is just an idea at the moment, I haven’t looked in to it properly and it would need some help from the equipment suppliers to modify the way their system is used, but how about using dibbers, as used in orienteering.

As I see it;
Each rider carries a dibber…

…either on a finger loop, a wrist band or lanyard.

At the start/finish line, the course is widened and there are 20 fence post across the course, forming 20 bike width gates, with a base station on each one.

Riders get set off as normal, but at the end of each lap it is the rider’s responsibility to record their lap by selecting an empty lane, poking their dibber in the box and checking that it beeps and flashes.

The hardware itself is reliable, I’ve never heard of it failing during an orienteering event.

It wouldn’t be practical for everyone to dib at the start of their first lap, so the timing software might need a bit of adapting to manually input everyone’s start time.

There might be queues at the end of the first lap while riders are still bunched up, they should soon clear as riders spread out on subsequent laps.

Riders will need to stop to dib, no flying through. The course could be designed with hairpin bends or other features to make this less of an inconvenience in itself.

As a rough guide, dibbers are £2.29 each and the control stations are £6 per day to hire. I don’t know how that compares with timing mats and chips.
http://www.sportident.co.uk/SPORTidentHardwarePrices.pdf

Go pro on the line to act as a backup for all issues.

Good point mikewsmith. Even if I lose my number board, chip or dibber, I should be able to identify myself on video.
This could even be an added feature of the event. Upload the whole 12 or 24 hours of video, then riders can fast forward to their own known lap times and watch themselves ride through.

It could certainly work but I’m not really sure the current solutions are that big a problem – I’ve rarely had issues that weren’t of my own causing (forgetting to swap number plates between bikes for example…) or pretty easily resolved (lap missed, lap time clearly was two laps so they corrected it).

why can’t they use ANPR systems. cost must be coming down now they seem to be ubiquitous on our motorways….

even the parking at the airport uses it.

I was thinking QR codes but the big issue for mtbing is obviously mud covering them.

Our club has a kit that is a timing mat and chips that stick to the number board. It works very well every rider that crosses the line is tagged.

Timelaps still do it manually – they have an automatic solution, but basically they type in everyone’s number as you cross the line. Works well. I did an off road triathlon which had ‘dibbers’, it was utter toss, wouldn’t be keen on that at all!

Reading Velodrome have been using this system for the last month or so – going well I believe

mylaps

With modern RFID chips really coming down in price I think it makes more sense to use those. Look at London League CX which uses such a system – with back-up manual lap counters.
But TBH as a race promoter its almost impossible to get riders to put numbers/ boards etc on properly. Having several systems is the current only reliable way of doing it. I believe the fashionable term is “resilience”.

I’ve never heard of a timing problem at road (running) races, using a variety of chipped tags tied to shoe laces or stuck to race numbers. Why doesn’t this work for bikes? Too fast? Too fragile for MTBing (especially the mats that read the chips)?

I did a race that uses exactly that system, about 5 years agp. Relentless 24. Not sure if they still use it.

Electronic tagging is expensive though. Hire of tags, wage of operators all add onto the entry fee.

They had those dab things at the Marathon Champs this year they worked fine just a bit of a pain to dab when your wanting to get on with it.

RFID only seems to work if they’re attached to your fork legs like they do in UCI races the tags attached to the boards just seem to cause problems the SW XC series this year used this system and every race they reverted back to typing in number boards each lap.

I guess for event organizers it doesn’t make sense paying out extra for an advanced system which isn’t guaranteed to work compared to just getting two volunteers to count number boards each lap for free.

I’ve never heard of a timing problem at road (running) races, using a variety of chipped tags tied to shoe laces or stuck to race numbers. Why doesn’t this work for bikes? Too fast? Too fragile for MTBing (especially the mats that read the chips)?

The ride I did on Saturday had timing chips, you attached them to the bottom of the fork. Worked fine for me and the other 4 guys I was riding with, granted we’re not elite level riders but we’re not that slow…

RFID only seems to work if they’re attached to your fork legs like they do in UCI races the tags attached to the boards just seem to cause problems the SW XC series this year used this system and every race they reverted back to typing in number boards each lap.

dartmoor classic uses RFID stickers on the left hand side of helmet. seems to work pretty robustly and that tracks 3500 riders.

Mountain Mayhem used ankle transponders of some type several years ago. As has been pointed out above, it all costs. Reading plates is pretty simple.

poking their dibber in the box

I’m in 8)

From this thread, http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/train-all-winter-for-an-event-and-some-steals-your-winners-prize/page/2

The timing was an abismal, infact I suspect the timing mat was not working at all.

Maybe my idea isn’t the solution, but going by replies here and my own experience, event organisers seem to swap from one timing company to another from year to year, with it being a bit hit & miss as to whether the system will work or not.

I don’t normally take much notice of who’s doing the timing, I just attach the chip to my bike or ankle as instructed.
Is there at least one system that’s known to be reliable that all race organisers could use?

Is there at least one system that’s known to be reliable that all race organisers could use?

Manpower, pens and some paper.

Works in other sports, just organise a series of races,’n’ races, everyone has to voulenteer at one to do the organisation/running, one discard, n-2 to count. Don’t want to voulenteer, pay a waiver fee.

I’ve done loads of lap based bike events with chipped electronic timing. Mayhem, Bristol Bike Fest, numerous CX races and not aware of major issues with the timing any of those. Is it more a problem with specific timing suppliers?

The main problem I can see is that before long the control boxes would be in different places, each would be worth different amounts of points and competitors would be given a map to locate them all…

Relentless 24. Not sure if they still use it.

Yep, they used the same system last year. Worked fine as far as I know. Only needed a couple of boxes, not 20.

My wife helps organise a running race and they got these folks in: FR Systems

They were not particularly cheap but you get what you pay for. They were excellent and provided a great service. A case of getting the professionals in if it really matters (and for 3000 runners in a race with timing problems the year before, it did).

Otherwise, all the other races (and sportives) I’ve done seem to use RFID-based system. Either stickers on the helmet, chip on fork (Etape Caledonia) or dibbing – including system in the OP. Seem to work very well.

Timing systems are pretty expensive and even the biggest timing providers have had problems this year, BDS, NDH, SDS and EWS.

I help out doing timing at events (mainly single run DH events) and it’s bloody difficult sometimes to get it all set up and ready. infact we had a recent timing failure where the interface to the computers failed and we had to use a manual system that had to time people to .01 of a second.

multi lap events or multi stage events really need to use some kind of RFID tag, either a dabber (which can be a pain) or some kind of RFID tag that is picked up as you go through a gates (expensive).