Labour Party problems

Gramps has emailed the membership (I think it was the membership, and not just MPs):

BREAKING: Jeremy Corbyn emails Labour MPs urging them to remain united. One says: "This is absolutely incredible. The leadership just don’t get it. Within hours of the 7 leaving they send out this. This is their problem. Cloth eared and making matters worse." pic.twitter.com/d32Y2HM93J

— Kevin Schofield (@PolhomeEditor) February 18, 2019

When will Jeremy realise that he’s at the end of the table?

While Len McCklusky was busy attaking the 7 for not delivering Brexit

Brexit was busy shutting down the Honda factory in Swindon

Isnt Len’s jub to protect those workers, rather than helping the ERG with their wet dream of brexit?

Don’t you be criticising Len, you traitorous Blairite scum!

You won’t be laughing when his and Jeremy’s post-Brexit socialist masterplan sees the glorious rebirth of a proper UK car industry!

Bloody totalitarian dictators and their loyalty pledges!!

Members of both the House of Commons and the House of Lords are required to take an oath of allegiance to the Crown before they take their seats in Parliament after a general election or by-election and after the death of the monarch. Any MP or Member of the House of Lords who objects to swearing an oath can make a solemn affirmation instead. This process is known as swearing in.

The form and manner of administering the oath are set out in the Oaths Act 1978.

An MP takes the oath by holding the sacred text in his or her uplifted hand and says the words of the oath.
English wording

I (name of Member) swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.

The Act also permits the oath to be taken in the Scottish manner, with uplifted hand but not holding the sacred text. Members who want to do so may also take the oath as prescribed in the Promissory Oaths Act 1868, by kissing the book and using the words:

I (name of Member) do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.

I see. So your accusation is based upon what Corbyn may do or not do, rather than what he has done, i.e. follow party policy. Thanks for clearing that up.

My accusation is based on what he has done, he hasn’t secured a general election, he deceived conference about his next step.

Q Does the party membership support a 2nd ref?
A Yes

Q Is Corbyn following the wishes of the party.
A No

Oh dear, democracy only when it agrees with him. He is a liar and a fraud.

And lets not forget whipping the party to vote against staying in a customs union, then pretending that he wants a custom union in his hypocritical letter to May. You know his actual actions rather than his lies.

Can someone confirm that Corbyn letter above is genuine?

This made me chuckle:

“Some of you who tuned in for this morning’s press conference – in which seven Labour MPs announced they would quit the party – might have heard a surprising commentary. “Between this and Brexit we are actually ****,” an unknown male voice could be heard saying as the even was broadcast live across the BBC Two and BBC News channels. “It’s going to be so divided … The Conservatives are going to win.”

A BBC spokesperson said: “Due to an error, we inadvertently broadcast some background comments from another microphone during our coverage of the press conference this morning. We apologised on air once we realised our mistake.””

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/feb/18/bbc-apologises-for-hot-mic-swearing-during-labour-split-broadcast

Q Does the party membership support a 2nd ref?
A Yes

Q Is Corbyn following the wishes of the party.
A No

I hadn’t realized that a second referendum had been taken off the table. When did this happen?

And lets not forget whipping the party to vote against staying in a customs union, then pretending that he wants a custom union in his hypocritical letter to May. You know his actual actions rather than his lies.

Fake news: he did not whip the party to vote against a customs union.

I hadn’t realized that a second referendum had been taken off the table. When did this happen?

In other news there is no table.

Until he stands up and calls for a 2nd ref it’s not on his agenda – it should be now.

Fake news: he did not whip the party to vote against a customs union.

True… he whipped them to abstain, not “vote against”, and it was “the” Customs Union, not “a” Customs Union (the difference being that the former is defined, and exists, the second can be many things to many people… and may contain unicorns, up and ’till its rules need to be written down and agreed to.)

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/list-labour-remainers-rebelled-jeremy-corbyn-customs-union-vote/

I hadn’t realized that a second referendum had been taken off the table. When did this happen?

When the **** is he going to support a 2nd ref then? The first of **** april? maybe next year? He failed in a no confidence vote, then was the time.

Fake news: he did not whip the party to vote against a customs union.

You are Trump, and I claim my tangerine dream.

In other news there is no table.

Until he stands up and calls for a 2nd ref it’s not on his agenda – it should be now.

I would like Labour to campaign for continued membership of the EU, but as far as I can see, they’re following agreed policy and their 2017 manifesto.

The list of Labour Remainers who rebelled against Jeremy Corbyn on customs union vote

You do realise that doesn’t refute what I said? Corbyn did not whip his MPs to vote against a customs union.

You are Trump, and I claim my tangerine dream.

Instead of calling me names, substantiate your claim.

I shouldn’t even have read this thread, never mind have foolishly tried to contribute, on today of all days. I’m out…

I would like Labour to campaign for continued membership of the EU, but as far as I can see, they’re following agreed policy and their 2017 manifesto.

But not conference – which he said he would follow? this is the time.

I shouldn’t even have read this thread, never mind have foolishly tried to contribute on today of all days. I’m out…

You ninja-edited your post after I quoted it, because you realized you were wrong. No need to flounce.

But not conference – which he said he would follow? this is the time.

I think that’s what we’re left with, agreed. I’m not enamoured with the idea of asking the public a question until we get the answer we want, but it’s difficult to see how else we can progress. It’s becoming clear that MPs (and the general public) are aligning themselves more closely with Brexit/ remain than they are with their political parties. I don’t think anyone can predict what will happen with any degree of confidence.

I edited my post before yours appeared (for me).

Carry on with the “name calling” folks… I think he might well deserve it. Just a game playing troll.

I’m out…

Carry on with the “name calling” folks… I think he might well deserve it.

And the shortest-lived flounce in STW-history goes to…

I think that’s what we’re left with, agreed. I’m not enamoured with the idea of asking the public a question until we get the answer we want, but it’s difficult to see how else we can progress.

At this point we are asking them a 2nd question, quite different to the 1st. Given the decision that was made this is the deal on offer – do you accept that deal? If not we shall remain.

It’s becoming clear that MPs (and the general public) are aligning themselves more closely with Brexit/ remain than they are with their political parties.

It’s been obvious from day 1 that brexit/eu are not party political questions – the hard left and right campaigning for opposite outcomes from the same decision showed that.

 I don’t think anyone can predict what will happen with any degree of confidence.

Well given that pollsters have learnt from the past, had time to analyse the data and just about everything says the deal on offer gets very low support, no deal is low (and probably lower when it’s actually explained) it’s not that much of an unknown.

Something a bit more in depth than Monty Python pictures and fictional loyalty pledges

“What we are seeing isn’t the launch of a new politics, it’s the old one sailing off in a lifeboat.”

At this point we are asking them a 2nd question, quite different to the 1st. Given the decision that was made this is the deal on offer – do you accept that deal? If not we shall remain.

Sure, but the referendum was a mandate to exit the EU without coming back to the public regarding the terms.

It’s been obvious from day 1 that brexit/eu are not party political questions – the hard left and right campaigning for opposite outcomes from the same decision showed that.

My thoughts were regarding the future of the Labour and Conservative parties; it’s difficult to see how they go forward from here, given the implacable opposition of their internal factions.

Well given that pollsters have learnt from the past, had time to analyse the data and just about everything says the deal on offer gets very low support, no deal is low (and probably lower when it’s actually explained) it’s not that much of an unknown.

Likely true *if* there is a second referendum. My point was that there is very little certainty regarding that, an extension, May’s deal, or no deal being what happens.

Sure, but the referendum was a mandate to exit the EU without coming back to the public regarding the terms.

find me that bit of paper that said that, regardless ploughing on with something that satisfies nobody because we said we would isn’t good government.

Parties going forward – resolve the EU question “for a generation” never speak of it again.

My point was that there is very little certainty regarding that, an extension, May’s deal, or no deal being what happens.

EU don’t want an extension unless something major will change and a serious outbreak of common sense in the UK. So it’s May’s Deal, No Deal or Remain – the three options parliament has open to them.

Anyway this is awfully like ground we have covered multiple times in the EU thread

find me that bit of paper that said that, regardless ploughing on with something that satisfies nobody because we said we would isn’t good government.

It may well not be good government, but neither was the decision to call the referendum in the first place, so no surprise there. The vote was to leave the EU, not “think about leaving the EU and ask later about exactly how we should do it”.

Parties going forward – resolve the EU question “for a generation” never speak of it again.

I don’t see how remaining or exiting resolve the question…

EU don’t want an extension unless something major will change and a serious outbreak of common sense in the UK. So it’s May’s Deal, No Deal or Remain – the three options parliament has open to them.

I would think that a second referendum or general election would persuade the EU to grant an extension. Or just maybe they’ll take the view that we’re more trouble than we’re worth, as remaining will continue the status quo of hostility that has been the hallmark of our relationship with Europe.

Anyway this is awfully like ground we have covered multiple times in the EU thread

Err yes, good point.

Do I need to put on google safesearch before I look up who “Mike Gapes” is?

Oops!

https://twitter.com/Gonzo_McBonzo/status/1097556979323686912?s=19

Not a great choice of wording there by Jeremy, but that clearly distorts the message he was giving.

He needs to go, but FFS make it about what he has or hasn’t done.

Sounds like a nice smooth zero-conflict PLP meeting. Unity.

He needs to go, but FFS make it about what he has or hasn’t done.

In a world where the (disgraced) serial adulterer former foreign sec can be openly racist, various Tory backbenchers run anti immigrant tirades, the Home Office be deporting people because the government lost their papers and heaps more while we are steered to a hard brexit at the wishes of a tiny minority we are all told the biggest thing to fear is the liberal left wing EU loving media…

Aye, that’s right mike. All those things and they still lost.

Well if most of the comments, twitter links etc. had been made by cabinet ministers it would hardly make the news.

The bigger part of “they lost” is how much did we all loose.

I read somewhere tonight that all 7 of the MPs who walked out of labour failed to vote against the tory’s welfare bill which has impoverished so many people and persecuted the disabled. I think they probably made the correct decision today

I must admit that this made me laugh…..

Who are you?

Louise. It had to be.

“You’re not helping, Louise” pic.twitter.com/3RkaQZWc5o

— Alan White (@aljwhite) February 18, 2019

I read somewhere tonight that all 7 of the MPs who walked out of labour failed to vote against the tory’s welfare bill which has impoverished so many people and persecuted the disabled.

That’s because Labour whipped to abstain on that bill. These MPs were following the party line when voting. They were loyal. Only 48 voted against. 184 (including these 7) abstained, or “failed to vote against”, as per the (rather odd it seemed to me at the time) party line.

I read somewhere tonight that all 7 of the MPs who walked out of labour failed to vote against the tory’s welfare bill which has impoverished so many people and persecuted the disabled. I think they probably made the correct decision today

If there’s one thing for sure, the Labour Party is going to swoop into power on a diet of fresh hatred and abuse every day. It’s worked so well for the leadership so far.

You know the thing is, I reckon 2 or 3 of the splitter scumbags never believed in Corbyn, right from the very beginning whereas a much bigger chunk (myself included) were happy to give him a chance, even after the PLP vote of no confidence and subsequent re-election.

Thing is, whatever you think of their politics, it’s looking like they were right not to believe in him. We are no closer to the left wing (pick your own personal moh scale value of hardness) government the country needs. Despite deluded (some would say, “tricked”) remainers putting their hopes in a labour government at the last minute in 2017, he still couldn’t lead his party to victory over the worst Tory campaign in recent history.

We can argue whether they split or stay all day – there are valid reasons to take either course of action. But you can’t deny that the leadership of the party is failing. Parties do not split under competent leadership. Criticism of Corbyn does not equate to an outright rejection of his policies. I agree with most of the manifesto, a few things I might not be happy with but hey, trade-offs and compromise. He has many talents on the back benches. That he, MacDonnell, Thornberry, Milne, Smith and Lansman choose not to use them is their failing. There are a lot of minds to change with Scotland lost but he’s not changing any of them anytime soon. He should go. He won’t, not yet, but he should.

Meanwhile, Derek Hatton is back in the party.

I’m seeing tweets about a possible 5 more Labour MPs who might be joining them soon, as in, as early as tomorrow morning. Also rumours that meetings are being held with centric Tories to join and SNP / LibDem MPs about a possible coalition.

Berger will be booted out by liverpool voters at the first opportunity. No doubt because all scousers are anti-semites.

First a terrorist supporter, then a racist, now a totalitarian. Have you been reading the sun recently?

Both lines typed by the same person. DazH, only one Sun reader there lad.