So you vote for a person as MP rather than a member of a political party? That seems rather screwed up and allows the situation described above, was not aware of this as I have always voted for the party rather than an individual, my future votes will now be cast differently and I suspect I am not the only one that was mistaken.
That's why we are in the situation we are now. You should always vote for the person not the party, that way we get a better chance of decent representatives in parliament, not just tossers putting party needs before their constituents all the time.
This development is certainly not free of tribalism or dogma. Shai Masot of the Israeli embassy was filmed saying how he was using Labour Friends of Israel to 'take down' certain politicians. It should come as no surprise that these LFI members are trying to do just that.
but I think it’s commendable.
They were quite happy to use the party's support, under Corbyn's leadership, to get themselves elected in 2017. Are you seriously suggesting that their reasons for leaving have occurred since then?
That’s why we are in the situation we are now. You should always vote for the person not the party
The government of your choice will have far more impact than a single constituency MP.
They were quite happy to use the party’s support, under Corbyn’s leadership, to get themselves elected in 2017. Are you seriously suggesting that their reasons for leaving have occurred since then?
I really doubt it one single reason that trumps everything else, the real world doesn't work like that, but I'm "seriously suggesting" that since then Corbyn has been utterly useless on Brexit, because he hates the EU as a form of Globalisation so is happy for us all to suffer to achieve his goals, whilst trying to avoid taking too much blame for it, and equally he has done little or nothing to address the anti-Semitism within his party, because he has become so anti-Israel (as am I) that he's become Anti-Jew (which I am not).
because he has become so anti-Israel (as am I) that he’s become Anti-Jew (which I am not)
Do you really believe that? Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong anti-racism campaigner who has done more than most other MPs put together to fight racism is suddenly a jew hater? Really?
So you vote for a person as MP rather than a member of a political party?
It does worry me that some people are allowed to vote, without the faintest idea of what they are actually voting for...
I mean, just imagine if we had a referendum on something important, say like leaving the EU and people like that were offered a vote.. it could all go so horribly wrong.
dazh
Do you really believe that? [b]Jeremy Corbyn[/b], a lifelong anti-racism campaigner who has done more than most other MPs put together to fight racism is suddenly a [b]jew hater[/b]? Really?
Wow, who on earth used that term?
It does worry me that some people are allowed to vote, without the faintest idea of what they are actually voting for
The problem is it is a fair assumption to make that you vote for the party not the person. Whilst the law says its the person over time the party side of things has got more and more prominence.
One of the many parts of our electoral system which could do with a rethink.
The government of your choice will have far more impact than a single constituency MP.
And that government will have a lot more impact and be more effective if it were made up of elected representatives who actually gave a shit about anything other than their own party.
Heidi Allen, Anna Soubry and Sarah Woolaston have all just resigned
So its now a cross-party 'problem'
Do you really believe that? Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong anti-racism campaigner who has done more than most other MPs put together to fight racism is suddenly a jew hater? Really?
No sorry, got a bit ranty there. I meant he's allowing it within the party by not dealing with it.
Centric Nationalists from Wales and Scotland
I'd consider both Plaid Cymru and the SNP to be "centric" already.
And that government will have a lot more impact and be more effective if it were made up of elected representatives who actually gave a shit about anything other than their own party.
I have some time for that argument, but it doesn't work in the context of our FPTP electoral system. You only get the government you want to see by voting for that party's candidate in your constituency.
I’d consider both Plaid Cymru and the SNP to be “centric” already.
There's a few hard-lefties in both parties, but for the most party I was trying to avoid talking right wing nationalists, they're well, quite different of course 😉
You only get the government you want to see by voting for that party’s candidate in your constituency.
Exactly. I might have the best intentioned tory MP in the country but if he wins the seat it is another tory seat towards their majority and the polices and actions of the tory government are what the country have to suffer, not the one well intentioned tory mp.
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Satire is dead.
It now appears that Hatton has been suspended...!!! That didn’t take very long.
But this party quite happy to embrace these nasty old trotyites is ready to run the country, apparently
GO JEZZA!!
And gorgeous George putting in a star turn.
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1098167958571008006
"Full Livingstone." 😆
Look at these nasty bunch of antisemites denying the obvious antisemite issues and claiming that Corbyn is anti racist. Misguided fools; what could 200 prominent Jewish academics, professionals and scholars know about it anyway?
But this party quite happy to embrace these nasty old trotyites is ready to run the country, apparently
GO JEZZA!!
Whereas the TINGE party are off to a cracking start.
investigation into a tweet he posted in 2012 blaming Jews for Israeli government policy.
The tweet, which resurfaced after he was readmitted to the party on Monday, said: “Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel!”
Now, I'm no expert, but that looks like something that has been taken out of context purely to stir the pot. Would be interesting to see what it exactly was this tweet was referencing.
I think you could usually expect to come across most MPs through their activities in campaigns
Activities??? Don’t think you’ve met our local MP
Interesting character, this Hatton chap.
Apparently he has recently made a lot of money out of property development, which begs the question, why isn't he in the Tory party?
Wonder how many of the points raised in that twitter thread are covered by this documentary series on the influence of the Israel lobby in UK politics:
https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/thelobby/
Including 'diplomats' based in the Israeli Embassy talking of taking out UK politicians, not forgetting the vast sums of money available for such activities:
Still a bit perplexed how Joan Ryan (featured in the video above) can leave the Labour Party, yet remain as chair of Labour Friends of Israel...
https://twitter.com/_LFI/status/1097981212113727488
Anna Soubry is on the last leg at 10. Could be interesting
Its like some weird form of Tourettes, isn't it?
At the end of the day, any organisation that thinks its in any way acceptable to very publicly welcomes a total **** like Derek Hatton into the fold, without thinking how many people regard him (correctly) as a truly abhorrent human being, is just completely detached from reality.
As someone who's been a lifelong Labour voter I just look on in total despair at the state of the Labour party. Its a disgrace. An opinion polling shows is presently shared by the vast majority of the population, at the very time it has never been needed more
And it all comes from the typically simplistic, 6th form level, black an white, nuance-free mindset of the hard left - my enemies enemy is my friend. So I support the Palestinians cause therefore anyone else who shares my support for Palestine is my friend. The next thing your being photographed in a room with a bunch of terrorists, and you've just admitted a load of antisemites with open arms.
See also: I don't like how America conducts its foreign policy, therefore anyone else who objects to America conducts its foreign policy is obviously ok. So then you're supporting the regime in Venezuela (because it claims to be socialist) which is presently ruthlessly oppressing its people while literally starving them to death and stopping (evil American) foreign food age reaching them.
Its absolutely tragic, but inevitable once the party had been take over by an idiot like Corbyn, and the kind of clueless muppets he attracts!
the Labour party has now been completely colonised and a total lost cause. I can't see how it can go on for much longer without the inevitable rupture into two parties. if it wasn't for the pressure of Brexit, it would already have happened IMO.
Those who inhabit the real world will leave to join their TIG colleagues, leaving a rump of clueless Marxists who will wither away as the 6th formers who previously supported them grow up and see them for what they are.
I expect the usual suspects will be along soon to tell us how its all a conspiracy by 'the right wing media' and 'the Blairites'.
If you use the word 'moderate' as a term of abuse, you really need to have a word with yourself, and instead of reaching for the usual candidates for blame, look a bit closer to home
I was listening to Chris Williamson the other day on Radio 4 after Ian Austin quit the Labour Party. He simply denied that there was any problem with anti-semitism in the party and that those who had left citing anti-semitism were simply lying about their reasons for going. At least John McDonnell had the intelligence to understand that when you are losing MPs you have to as a minimum claim to recognise that there must be underlying problems that need to be discussed and addressed.
With "friends" like Williamson, Corbyn really has no need of enemies.
The tweet that got Hatton in trouble, wasn’t anti-Semitic. It was a criticism of Israel.
it was demanding apologies from random British jews on behalf of Israel. That is anti-semitic.
The average man on the street is not responsible for the actions of a foreign government, even if he has the temerity to wear a yarmulke, and it is unacceptable to pretend that he is.
The average man on the street is not responsible for the actions of a foreign government, even if he has the temerity to wear a yarmulke, and it is unacceptable to pretend that he is.
Wholly agree on this point, however, for fairness and balance, given demands being placed on the Labour Leadership, surely as chief rabbi, Ephraim Mirvis should make every effort to root out those within British and Commonwealth Jewry who support the more extreme elements of Zionism and military colonialism that blight the reputation of the Jewish faith.
(something that his predecessor Jonathan Sacks clearly failed in)
Such actions would show a strong sense of leadership and goodwill restoring faith that this is not just cynical political exploitation.
it was demanding apologies from random British jews on behalf of Israel.
if it was this one :
"Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel!"
then it wasn't - 'speaking out publicly agaiinst' is the opposite of an apology, it is protesting against.
There must be some other tweet as I can't see much wrong in that statement - it is saying that jewish people that don't agree with the actions of Israel should be vocal that Israel is not doing this 'in their name' - i.e. it's a similar situation to muslims being quiet and letting people form the opinion that they agree with what ISIS is doing because they are also muslims and therefore must be 'aligned' in their views.
Not that I am supporting Hatton, but if that is the tweet then I can't see the problem.
this is not just cynical political exploitation.
This is exactly what it is.
Looks like its not yet time to stop digging. The hashtag #istandwithchriswilliamson is now doing the rounds on Twitter. I'm sure its all well-reasoned, reasonable and not at all antisemitic.
Do you think that there might be some mentions of antisemitism by Theresa during PMQ's by any chance? Once again labour presents the Tory's with an open goal and a chance for...SQUIRREL!!!
Next stop for Labours present fantastic public image: Holocaust denial?
i.e. it’s a similar situation to muslims being quiet and letting people form the opinion that they agree with what ISIS is doing because they are also muslims and therefore must be ‘aligned’ in their views.
Agreed. And that is why he was wrong to say it.
I expect the usual suspects will be along soon to tell us how its all a conspiracy
Do you not think that where the labour party currently is, is in some small way a result of the relentless opposition exercised by the ‘blairites’?
Is the complaint solely about the personalities or the policies? If the latter, which policies are so extreme that it’s worth splitting the party over?
is in some small way a result of the relentless opposition exercised by the ‘blairites’?
And there we go. I think how you describe 'relentless opposition' gives the level of expectation of politicians, given the disengaged, totally reclusive nature of the labour front bench and the usual wall of silence not being emitted by it.
I don't see 'relentless opposition' at all. Aall I see is weary resignation from the 'Blairites' at the hopeless shambles the party has become under the present 'leadership'. Hence people now reaching the point where they're just leaving
And as for policies? Do they actually have any? You wouldn't *ing know it!! The labour 'leadership' seems to do the square root of * all in either opposing the Tory's or setting out any alternatives
But I suppose thats all the fault of the press and the Blairites too, isn't it?
No blame must ever be laid at the door of the sainted Jeremy!
Agreed. And that is why he was wrong to say it.
explain that a bit more please - why is it wrong to point out to the Jewish community that it might be a good time to remind people that what Israel does is not 'a Jewish thing', and therefore they shouldn't form anti-semetic views based on the actions of Israel ?
What exactly is anti-semetic about pointing that out ?
What you're talking about is collective accountability. Which is just nonsense
Or will you be be popping over to Jamaica to make a press statement to apologise for the actions of the UK government in deporting people during the Windrush scandal, and the hostile environment created by Theresa May in general which has effected them?
Applying your same principles, you'll obviously have been having plenty of sleepless nights about it? And so you should! Again applying your principles, its your fault for not vocally denouncing it. Your silence makes you complicit
Agreed. And that is why he was wrong to say it.
+1.
@binners Ironic that you were the one who brought up nuance don't you think?
Care to expand? While we're all apparently doing irony?
