"KMC chains strongly not recommended" – Why?

http://absoluteblack.cc/xx1-style-shimano.html

Funny looking link don’t think i’ll click it.

it’s the absolute black chainring website

Quotes from the manufacturer:

And one more – please do not use KMC chains. They are out of spec in term of links dimensions and will make you trouble with my rings. Sram or Shimano chains are best for that.

PLEASE check with sram/shimano chain. 99% of problems is due to KMC chain. They are out of spec by 0.05mm on the link and this is well enough if yuo count mud and 10links for eg. I had few customers with that and when they switched to different chain it cured the issue mostly (except clay mud)

From this thread: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115909&start=30#p1017113

link is fine and legit.. as for the OP’s question, dont know… strange.

Wasn’t he the guy that was claiming that you didn’t need the thick/thin teeth for the ring to work?

Looks like his rings now have thick/thin teeth…

and, of course…

Mud is the only issue with these chainrngs. And i am very clear about that from the start. If you will ride in the deep mud or a lot of debris will stick to chain/chainring then you will drop it.

He says somewhere else that the kmc chain rollers are a bigger diameter. Doesn’t seem to be an issue on my Blackspire N/W not measured up though, may do out of interest.

my experiences of KMC chains are that they will snap anyway before having any adverse effect.

I’m running one of his spiderless rings and the KMC chain wouldn’t mesh properly. The first muddy ride made the chain come off regularly, after I changed to a sram chain it’s been absolutely fine.

Had my first ever chain snap about two weeks ago with a KMC. Was the link that sheared off.it was on my commuter bike so not exactly getting mashed through the mud etc. All other chains are Sram.

I might be wrong, but don’t KMC make Shimanos chains anyway?

Maybe, it doesn’t mean they make them to the same spec though.

Now why would I be told to not use the chains that work best?
IME of course.

My absolute black ring works great with a shimano 10 speed chain. If it says not to use kmc, just follow the instructions. I usually use kmc on all other bikes with good results.

Thats a nice ring

I’ve never tried it with a KMC chain but the Absolute Black chainring on my CX bike works a treat with a Shimano chain 🙂

Weirdly none of the other rings have any problems with KMC- mine is one of the first gen Works ones and has always had KMC on it, still never dropped when riding. So, IMO the solution isn’t to avoid KMC chains, it’s to avoid these chainrings as they’re pointlessly fickle. If they have issues with specific chains, what else are they going to have problems with- mud, chain wear, quick links?

Northwind has it spot on IMO, I run a Raceface N/W with a KMC chain and have had no problems at all. Avoid the inferior chainrings.

I only use KMC chains now and no issues with a Works ring either.

I use KMC chains on my SS and fixed fleet. So far, touch wood, fine….

my experiences of KMC chains are that they will snap anyway before having any adverse effect.

I only ever use KMC chains now after a Shimano one snapped on me. That was about six years ago and I’ve never had a problem.

irc there was a nice explanation on here from someone in the industry a few years back about how it can arise that your product and a compatible or right-size product are at the opposite ends of what is usually an acceptable ‘tolerance’. No one stopped using inbreds or 27.2 thomson seatposts though iirc.

From the implications of posts above, it does seem strange however that kmc might use different tolerances/tooling for their own chains than they do for the ones they make for shimano though.

I’ve only ever used KMC chains, not by deliberate choice but its just what’s always been cheapest when I’ve needed one and I’ve never once had a KMC chain snap. Usually last a fair while too.

From the implications of posts above, it does seem strange however that kmc might use different tolerances/tooling for their own chains than they do for the ones they make for shimano though.

Apparently they only make some shimano chains.

The higher end shimano ones are made in house, which I presume would now include 10speed.

Ive almost always used KMC with less problems than SRAM or Shimano. Not on N/W rings though.

I only use KMC chains now and no issues with a Works ring either.

Weirdly none of the other rings have any problems with KMC- mine is one of the first gen Works ones and has always had KMC on it, still never dropped when riding. So, IMO the solution isn’t to avoid KMC chains, it’s to avoid these chainrings as they’re pointlessly fickle. If they have issues with specific chains, what else are they going to have problems with- mud, chain wear, quick links?

Exactly. The gold KMC ones are particularly good when you ride in all weathers, very corrosion resistant.

All ok now supposedly?

http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/absolute-black-spiderless-chainring-problem-help-886238-2.html

Hi,
Marcin @ absoluteblack here.
I got the link from someone to see that thread. Funnily enough there was so many people looking at my web that it crashed few hours ago. Now is fine though.

So to give few explanations.
When I write that KMC chain is not good with my rings there is a legit reason for it. If someone thinks that only absoluteblack rings have some restrictions then go to WT website and you will see that they don’t recommend Wippermann chains for this matter.

So where is the problem? To be very specific it is with chain rollers in KMC chains. They are bigger than industry standard. This causes clogging with the teeth while meshing. Why? Because our rings are designed to tightest tolerances possible to retain the chain as well as it is physically doable. This also means that any anomaly in the chain will create trouble.
Why others do not have that problem? Because their tooth pattern is more pointy(triangular) and chain is sitting very loose compared to ours. Original xx1 rings have recessions squared off (which is protected by patent) and this helps kmc chain to work by “accident” as it leaves more space.

Where we are now. KMC has recognized the problem and we have been involved in testing new chains:) In few months all chains will be corrected and new spec will enable them to run with our rings. We will also become an ambassador of KMC and will offer them on our website..

Here is an independent review testing new KMC chain and our Chainring:
http://vimeo.com/87129362

If you have any questions you can always write me on Fb or emial as i am not here so often.

We will launch very soon few new rings. Sram spiderless with narrow/wide teeth (as many people asked), 40T cassette cog, 64BCD rings in 30,28 and 26 and also few more very interesting products.
you can follow Fb for the news:
https://www.facebook.com/absoluteblack.cc

Marcin

if vimeo link is not working here is YT one:

Been running KMC chains since 2004 without problems. Had Sram rollers breaking previously. Like the Op says the gold KMC are very good at keeping rust at bay/ looking good

I only ever use KMC chains now after a Shimano one snapped on me.

I only ever use SRAM chains now after a KMC one snapped on me.

4 of us bought KMC chains. All 3 normal ones snapped after hardly any use, with mine snapping after 152.8km of essentially riding round town and towpath levels of gnar! One gold one, I believe is still going. All 4 chains bought around the same time, but from different suppliers. And yes we did wonder whether there was a supply of fakes out there.

Very subjective I guess, but with stats like that, it’ll take quite a bit of convincing to defect from SRAM, where I change chains at 1000km+ because I feel like it, not because they’re measurably worn.

Not on a 1×10 though yet, but considering it.

If anyone’s interested in the Absolute Black chainrings, I’ve just noticed on their Facebook page that they’ve currently got 18% off the thick/thin cyclocross chainrings at the moment 🙂

For what it’s worth, I rate KMC and SRAM as best for robustness, and Shimano as best for shifting. No direct experience of other brands…….

I (irrationally) won’t use Shimano chains simply because of the joining system. Yes I know you can use a third party quick link. I’m sure they do, also which is my point.

I stopped using SRAM 10sp chains when having issues making a particular setup work. Now have KMC on three 10 speed MTBs and have done for over a year with no issue whatever – Shimano, Hope and RF rings. I’m using SRAM 9speed and very happy with 991’s on Cross.

I almost see the point here, but if other extreme grab rings are fine and absolute blacks’ are picky they need to demonstrate performance advantages over all less picky competitors IMO. Personally a Hope IBR with no devices or tricks works in 1×10 for me. Kudos to the guy if he’s got KMC to retool to suit him.

I notice lots of new bikes come with KMC chains regardless of the group set mix , I presumed this was the chain of choice for one or two big Far East factories.

Only first hand experience was the one that came on my new bike last year, the SRAM I replaced it with did seem an improvement but then the old one had a 3k miles on it.

If someone thinks that only absoluteblack rings have some restrictions then go to WT website and you will see that they don’t recommend Wippermann chains for this matter.

Thanks, that’s another to avoid.

Thanks Andrew (Northwind) for your informative comment. I guess you must be an expert in drivetrian. But that’s ok, everyone have a freedom of choice and preferences.

I’ve been using a10sp KMC gold chain for about 6 weeks now and have had no issues, I’m running it with a clutch mech, NW and no guide. The only thing I’ve noticed is it’s quite noisey in the lowest gear, I’ve been told this is the trade off for not running a guide as the NW ring exaggerates the chainline.

After reading this thread I nipped to the shed and popped on my XT chain, I’m riding Sunday so will see the difference between the two chains.

tehan – Member

Thanks Andrew (Northwind) for your informative comment. I guess you must be an expert in drivetrian.

I know what works thanks, as I say I have put enough miles onto a Works chainring with KMC chains to know that it works perfectly, so regardless of where the fault lies there are other products that just don’t have this issue, and it makes more sense to go there. Exacting tolerances are always great til you get into the world.