[Closed] Just got an email about Estates and Management unreasonable fees - anyone else?

Sorry wrong forum, can someone report it?

Any pukka company is NOT going to using @outlook.com email addresses.

Avoid!

I deal with this company as i have a leasehold flat and they are the ground rent collector.

Them and peveril are worse than ryanair for lack of customer service. Appalling but as we are tied to them we cant get rid of them.

I actually ignore any charge letters for tenant approvals, 400 quid peveril wanted. I ve ignored the letters for 12 years now and yet to be taken to court. They know most people just pay, of which i am not one.

If it was a reasonable fee, like 25 quid in another flat i have, i d pay, but 400 quid for bugger all isnt going to happen.

If you’ve owned the leasehold for more than 2 years you have a right to buy the freehold. They can’t refuse this. If they sell the lease on, they must offer it to the leaseholder first
Some lease owners will sell the lease to the leaseholder at any point too.
I was looking into this on a potential purchase recently,
I wouldn’t have paid the fee, I’d have just bought the lease.

£395 might have been excessive, but is probably better than £407. You won't be magically getting admin fees back when you buy this 'guide'. You may not even be getting a guide.

Am I missing something?

Consent for Major alterations - £395.00

- [b]Removal of walls[/b]
- Conservatory
- Porch extension
- Parking bollard
- Driveways
- Stair lift
- Solar Panels

EDIT - Ignore me I just read it properly.

Yes I got that email today. Obviously on someone's list as E&M manage my freehold too. Never had any extra fees, etc from them so wasn't too interested in the email.

Just googled it, Linked In page of the email sender comes up [url= https://uk.linkedin.com/in/sarah-lane-988200148 ]https://uk.linkedin.com/in/sarah-lane-988200148[/url] tbh my gut feeling is it probably [i]is[/i] legit, just a bit unprofessional sounding. You would think at the very least they'd have a website, PayPal etc. Whether the £12 gets you anything actually useful is another matter!

If you’ve owned the leasehold for more than 2 years you have a right to buy the freehold. They can’t refuse this. If they sell the lease on, they must offer it to the leaseholder first
Some lease owners will sell the lease to the leaseholder at any point too.
I was looking into this on a potential purchase recently,
I wouldn’t have paid the fee, I’d have just bought the lease.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38827661

Shitty horrible practice, if you ask me 🙁

No idea if it is actually legit or not. However, I can't see a Nigerian fraudster going to the level of detail that she's gone to to complete a £12 scam. Seems to be someone who knows their stuff, so probably worth a punt. Anyway, given you've already laid out the best part of £400 I can't see that an extra £12 is going to make that much of a difference. I say spend the dosh and let us know how much you get back!

Have you tried googling said document? And downloading it for free?

I'm sure if one person has bought it (if it actually exists) they them put it on line

I got this email today. I was worried about how they'd got my email address more than anything.

The good thing about my ground rent is that it is £2.50 a year and they can’t raise it as the amount is fixed cos it’s in the 107 year old leasehold document.

So I’m hoping when I’ve been there for 2 years buying the lease won’t cost much.

Any pukka company is NOT going to using @outlook.com email addresses.

This.

Also,

To Whom It May Concern,

Don't they know who you are?

Fair and Honest Property Advic

Who?

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search?q=fair+and+honest+property+advice

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fahpa

Someone sends you an unsolicited email from a free webmail account going "we can save you money, buy our guide" and you're thinking "sounds great!" ❓ 😯

That's why:

I can't see a Nigerian fraudster going to the level of detail that she's gone to to complete a £12 scam.

... if you throw a big enough net it's not the size of the fish but the amount you catch. And besides, the guide could just be the bait. What will they fool you into paying for next? "Our online payment is down at the moment, please call with your credit card details."

It [i]could[/i] be legitimate of course, but if it is then it's so shockingly unprofessional that I wouldn't be giving them Malvern Rider's 5p.

Tell you what else that looks like to me:

Our aim is to make homeowners aware of hidden and unreasonable charges they may have paid to [b]<insert company name here>[/b] upon the purchase and during the ownership of their property.

As you may be aware, [b]<insert company name here>[/b] act for various Freeholders and Rent Charge collectors. They are known for their unreasonably high fees for very basic administration tasks. What you may not be aware of is that many of these fees can easily be avoided.

[b]<insert company name here>[/b] prey on the fact that many homeowners are unaware or unable to understand the wording of most lease clauses or Transfer documents and how easy it is to dispute their unreasonable charges. Your solicitors who acted for you during your purchase may also be at fault for not making you aware of these charges.

[b]<insert company name here>[/b] generally charge the following fees for their basic administration tasks which generally take no longer than 10-15 minutes (fees circa 2017, you can verify by calling [b]<insert company name here>[/b]);

If you PM me the email message headers (google "message headers" together with the name of whatever email client you're using and you should get a guide (that doesn't cost £12)), I'll have a look to see if it reveals anything insightful about where it's come from.

Cougar, I've just been through the headers, and it originates from sendinblue, a mass mailing company. I've reported it to their abuse address.

However, I do think this was targeted (due to the email address I received it at, which does not usually receive any spam at all, as I do not use it for many things) and suggests a data breach at E&ML rather than a simple mass email out.

Relevant headers (for info)
Feedback-ID: temp_3rd_185.41.28.113:1741176:1741176_1:Sendinblue
X-Mailer: Sendinblue
X-Mailin-Client: 1741176
X-Mailin-Campaign: 1
Reply-To: Enquiries.fahpa@outlook.com
Message-Id: <201709201346.2n7ryowsm23j@bm.d.mailin.fr>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 13:46:54 +0200

I’d agree with a data breach. The figures they are using are correct but they probably publish them somewhere so it’s probably not a secret.

Cougar, I've just been through the headers, and it originates from sendinblue, a mass mailing company. I've reported it to their abuse address.

Good work.

Might be worth letting E&ML know too. I doubt they'll give much of a toss but hope springs eternal.

(Not a slight on them particularly, I've never heard of them, just that it's often hard to get companies take this sort of thing seriously. It's hard enough in the tech industry dealing with companies who should know better, let alone an estate management company.)

Sadly they don't seem to have an email address, only a form, and god knows who would understand. Really I'd want to get through to whoever their information controller is for data protection purposes, but I mean, god knows...

How much is it roughly to buy a freehold lease?

Got this email too. Have enquired how they got my email address. Going to turn approve E&M. If they don't engage am gonna report to Information Commission. Wonder if they sold our email addresses, either way t it's a major breech of DPA surely?

I've also had the exact same email.

I found your forum by googling the dodgy email, so I've joined just to post about this.

The only people who know I have an account with E&M for my ground rent are me and E&M. And I certainly haven't leaked any details to "Sarah Lane" who I've never heard of.
The email address I use for E&M is one I only use for private things like banking and utilities (eg ground rent).

Therefore my details have either been given away by, sold by, or stolen from, E&M. (So a definite security breach/breach of DPA).

Contact details I have used to email E&M are operations@e-m.uk.com
I've also emailed this "Sarah Lane".

I've also been told to contact "Action Fraud" and the Information Commissioner.

I suggest everyone else also contacts E&M, Action Fraud, and the ICO.

I'm also considering contacting the police.

Yet another person who has received the email. It is hard to believe that it has come from anywhere other than a data leak from E&M and I certainly will be contacting the ICO as the mail address used is not one that is used for non business related emails.

The only other option could be an estate agent I guess as my apartment is rented out.

I don't have an estate agent. E&M is my only link.

Thanks for that it was just a thought so it can only be E&M. I certainly can't imagine that they sold the addresses for this purpose so it has to be a leak.

I agree. E&M is the only link for me too.

Must be a Data Protection Act breach by E&M.

I've asked E&M who their data controller, whether they have reported it and what the outcome is.

"David" at action fraud online chat (who chats about fraud at 9pm!) has advised to report:
http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report-fraud-about-you

Looks like you can't report to ICO until you've exhausted dialogue with the company you think has mis-handled your data. Am I reading that right?

On the 9th December 2016 my E&M account number was changed I wonder why?

Interesting......

The link at the bottom of her email yesterday went to her LinkedIn page.

If you click the link at the bottom of that email now, it redirects to a page which says...

We have found suspicious activities in this client's account, and his account has been permanently closed along with its content.
Please be advised and carefully proceed with any mail sent from this user.
SendinBlue abuse desk.
abuse_account@sendinblue.com.
Please include the current page in your email.

*Dodgy looking link removed*

Sendinblue have confirmed they have blocked the sender account.

Thanks for reaching out. We are very sorry that you received an unsolicited email.

For your information, we have deleted the sender's account.

2 new members have appeared.

Care to introduce yourselves?

Oh dear I have just paid my service charge to em online. The account numbers were changed a few years ago.

They have a job going as an admin, 19k full time n3. May be a good start for someone in property.

3 but abcd did at least say why they were here

Oh yes so I see Junkyard. 😕

Drac - if that's me, I'm just here because I found this thread when I was googling the mystery message and have been trying to get to the bottom of it. 🙂

Cheers itf56.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5714786

Could be a few coming from here too.

Apologies if this this is the same link posted earlier - I couldn't open it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38827661

Listened to a prog on R4 earlier in the year and was astounded that the practice is legal.

On a par with the developers who make a deal with broadband providers, leaving first time buyers stuck with shite broadband. Also legal, also shoddy.

I found this page, not sure how genuine it is

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-lane-988200148/

Yes Drac, I'm afraid I'm only here searching for info on the "Fair and Honest Property Advice" data thief.

I don't have a massive interest in pushbikes really, even though I live very near to the National Cycling Centre, and I am involved in bikesport albeit ones with engines.

Cheers!

Just checking given the subject matter that new members are legit

I don't have a massive interest in pushbikes really

Technology has moved on massively, they have pedals these days! (-:

We received this message via email yesterday. I replied and haven't yet received a response so I'll post it here.

PLEASE TAKE THIS WITH A PINCH OF SALT AS IT'S AN UNVERIFIED SOURCE FROM A PUBLIC EMAIL ADDRESS:

Good evening

Ref: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/just-got-an-email-about-estates-and-management-unreasonable-fees-anyone-else

Please remove the above link. The person (Sarah Jane) is a hacker utilising a French spam marketing email to target thousands
Of UK residents. The emails on your Forum result in a malicious piece of spyware being sent and once downloaded create a kernel
Level exploit. I have seen similar exploits with eternal blue (I am a cyber penetration tester). I am requesting the removal to protect others. I don't want PC users or android phone users emailing the email on the site as the exploit specifically targets those operating devices.

Regards

[redacted]
CISSP

I'm unsure at this juncture whether it's a genuine warning or a request to take down the entire thread, which of course isn't going to happen.

Sorry, should have said, I came across this thread when searching for info on the same unsolicited email that I received from E&M. Have a bike, but only use it occasionally to go to the local park...

Having a bike isn't mandatory, but it's encouraged. (I rode mine a couple of weeks back for the first time in about four years. My arse still hurts.)

"The emails on your Forum result in a malicious piece of spyware being sent and once downloaded create a kernel"

This doesn't make any sense. The email has no attachments, nobody has been sent any attachments, and I can see no sign of any exploits in the HTML of the email sent. Perhaps an attachment might have been sent in reply to any contact with the sender, but seeing as people emailed and got no reply at all, that doesn't sound very likely.

For the record, I can't ride a bike. I'm sorry.

I've also received this from E&M today:
On 20th September, we became aware that email addresses from our database had been accessed by an unauthorised person(s). We are currently investigating the extent of the problem. At present we believe only email addresses have been compromised and we have received approximately 90 emails from leaseholders relating to this issue.

We have received emails from some of the homeowners affected speculating that E&M sells personal information to commercial third parties. Contrary to this speculation, we do not.

In the event that home owners are contacted again by any individuals or third parties offering to sell products or services relating to E&M we recommend you do not respond to it and inform E&M at communications@e-m.uk.com

We treat the security of all confidential data with the utmost seriousness. A thorough investigation is now underway and we have notified the Information Commissioner’s Office and the police.

We thank you for your understanding.

Operations Team

Nicely, thanks for the info.

This doesn't make any sense. The email has no attachments, nobody has been sent any attachments, and I can see no sign of any exploits in the HTML of the email sent. Perhaps an attachment might have been sent in reply to any contact with the sender, but seeing as people emailed and got no reply at all, that doesn't sound very likely.

Indeed.

Hi much the same as itf56 trying to get to the bottom of what is going on with this email about E&M.

I do have a bike that I use a couple of times a week though 🙂

Received this from E&M 21st September:

On 20th September, we became aware that email addresses from our database had been accessed by an unauthorised person(s). We are currently investigating the extent of the problem. At present we believe only email addresses have been compromised.

We have received emails from some of the homeowners affected speculating that E&M sells personal information to commercial third parties. Contrary to this speculation, we do not.

In the event that home owners are contacted again by any individuals or third parties offering to sell products or services relating to E&M we recommend you do not respond to it and inform E&M at communications@e-m.uk.com

We treat the security of all confidential data with the utmost seriousness. A thorough investigation is now underway and we have notified the Information Commissioner's Office and the police.

We thank you for your understanding.

Operations Team

cid:image001.jpg@01CFCCDD.09A264B0
For and on behalf of Estates & Management Ltd
Molteno House, 302 Regents Park Road, London N3 2JX
www.e-m.uk.com

Switchboard: +44 (0)20 8371 2800

Anyone actually quite keen for abcd to get in to bikes now as a result of their stumbling across the forum?

Apologies if this this is the same link posted earlier - I couldn't open it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38827661

Listened to a prog on R4 earlier in the year and was astounded that the practice is legal.

On a par with the developers who make a deal with broadband providers, leaving first time buyers stuck with shite broadband. Also legal, also shoddy.

This is currently the situation I am awaiting information on - I am a new homeowner who is one of millions now hoodwinked into this leasehold shitstorm. Our ground rent (not including a separate estates management charge) is £250 per year and as I understand it, tied to the RPI. Sadly not £2.50 as the OP states in his suspicious email hunt.. very interesting read.

Suffice to say my wife and I now know more about the ground rent we pay and as mentioned there is a government inquiry looking to ban the practice. It remains to be seen what will happen to our, and all out Neighbours rents. I’m in the NW of England, apparently a hot bed of unscrupulous practices with conveyencing.

I almost started a thread about this (don’t know if there has been one) as it’s caused my wife and I a ton of worry- ultimately looking a a house that we may potentially not be able to sell given the ground rent situation. The industry itself and associated conveyencers have conceded this a problem of the order of the PPI scandal. This is affecting millions of first time buyers.

A quick google throws up numerous Conveyencing advice forums and articles, all of which offer advice to those ‘professionals’ who may well be inline for legal action by disgruntled first time buyers. Nice eh.

Hi, just joined the forum having picked up on the thread about E&M through various links.
Joined in for 2 reasons:
1. I too received the dodgy looking email from Sarah Lane,probably because I'm a landlord and have dealings with E&M. Thought I'd better have my say before the moderator brings an end to this thread. I haven't as yet received the E&M email outlining what appears to be a breach in their Data Protection. I originally thought it could be someone with a real axe to grind against E&M.
2. Second reason for joining is that I am in fact a cyclist. Road cycling / sportives being my preference. Rode the Birmingham Velo on Sunday. I guess there's another thread somewhere on that, so I'll go and find it. But my general feedback here for what it's worth - 35 minute start delay without explanation or comms; chaos at food stations. I passed on the 20 miler having learned from the Cardiff Velo, only to find they'd run out of food at the 55 miler. Course was ok, just a few log jams here and there. Good support from marshalls etc.

Update: I shopped them to the information commissions office. I got a reply. They'll basically do nothing and probably filed my report in the bin. Might be worth several people complaining to see if they respond to a volume of complaints.

[i]
casework@ico.org.uk

We are writing to you regarding the data protection concern you have raised with us concerning Estates & Management Ltd and the way it handles personal data.

Role of the ICO

Our role is to ensure that organisations follow the Data Protection Act 1998 properly. If things go wrong we will provide advice and ask the organisation to try to put things right. Our overall aim is to improve the way organisations handle personal information.

Your concern

You have written to us because you are unhappy that Estates & Management Ltd has not held your data securely. That has led to your personal information being inappropriately accessed by a third party.

Our decision

It would appear that Estates & Management Ltd has breached the Data Protection Act. This is because they have failed to hold your data securely in line with principle 7 of the DPA.

Although it would appear that the organisation has breached the DPA, we would not deem it appropriate to pursue any further regulatory action at this stage.

Although we do not intend to take any further regulatory action on this case, this will remain on our systems to help us build a picture of Estates & Management Ltd’s information rights handling.

We will continue to monitor Estates & Management Ltd’s data protection practices, and should any regulatory action be taken against Estates & Management Ltd in the future, your case may form a part of our intelligence against them. You can view any regulatory action we do take on our website, using the following link: https://ico.org.uk/action-weve-taken/

Feedback about our service

If you are dissatisfied with the service you have received, or would like to provide us with feedback of any kind, please let me know.

Yours sincerely,

Benjamin Brady
Lead Case Officer
Information Commissioner’s Office
01625 545 213
[/i]

powerful regulations there 😕