Jury service time!

Not me though, my Mrs. She doesn’t know what to expect & neither do I (even after a 16 years stint in HMPS)
So what’s the crack with pro’s & cons (see what I did there) expenses etc?

Been selected and put on the jury twice. First trial was abandoned just as it was starting to get interesting but the second went to a conviction. Didn’t claim any expenses as work still paid my wage. I found it fascinating to see how the wheels of justice turned and overall a positive experience. Be prepared for a lot of sitting around

If it’s like mine, first half day is ‘training’ and then possibly jury selection.
As above, I sat in one trial over two days, was selected for another which was called off when the person to be tried pleaded guilty about 5 mins before we were due to be sworn in. After that wasn’t called back, so three and a half days in my two week slot. I found it very all very interesting and was glad to have done it even though it wasn’t very convenient but I can imagine if you are unlucky enough to get something long and complex/unpleasant it may not be a good experience.
A lot of hanging about so get a good book or two.
The only expenses I could claim was travel as I was on a sabbatical so had no income to claim for, although my work would have paid me in full if I had been working, but this depends on your employer. A number of self-employed people were very annoyed about how little they could claim IIRC

I claimed expenses for being a witness if that’s any help? Three days wages and travel from Fife to Cardiff and back, it was pretty substantial but it just went through the system and was paid no problem.
I didn’t even have to do anything other than show up, he changed his plea to guilty at the last minute.

Expenses – the info on exact amount and how to claim should be easy to find on-line. The rate is pretty poor if you are in for only a few weeks – it gets more generous the longer the case lasts. I don’t think there are any clever tricks for milking it.

Be prepared for a lot of sitting around

Lots! Court proceedings are incredibly inefficient things – from the Jury’s perspective they can appear even more so, as everytime there’s an argument about some point of law, or admissibility, or an excuse why a witness isn’t there etc the jury get kicked out. So worth getting some good books in.

Just did it last week, we do a telephone selection system up here which involves phoning in the night before to see if you’re required and then be available for a call during the day if there is an update. Got selected and went to the cinema where the screen had been set up for remote viewing, found out I was a juror (there were 5 reserves) then sat about for a couple of hours until it got called off on a change of plea.

Was mildly disappointed I never got to do it properly but I’m sure it’ll come up again. The new selection system is definitely a lot more efficient and no doubt cheaper, I’d like to see that kept. Would also like to see penalties for changes of plea on the day of the trial proportional to the expense incurred.

Did it a couple of years ago, in my summer holidays (teacher) after managing to get out of it twice so far; would have left colleagues and the school up the creek if I’d been obliged to do it during term time.

Indeed, lots of sitting around indeed and I was only picked as one juror picked was excused as he (he said he’d already told them) had a conviction – my name was quite literally the next name to be picked out of the sweetie jar.

An ‘unsavoury’ case (considering my profession…) and the technicalities of the case and the law itself was fascinating.

Be prepared for a lot of sitting around

^^^This^^^
Work paid my expenses so not sure how you claim them

 The rate is pretty poor if you are in for only a few weeks – it gets more generous the longer the case lasts. I don’t think there are any clever tricks for milking it.

They gave me 45p/mile for travel, my car was costing 10/p mile to run (£200 banger so it really was just fuel, that’s not depreciating at all!) Fife to Cardiff and back and I’m a couple of hundred up🤷‍♂️

Would also like to see penalties for changes of plea on the day of the trial proportional to the expense incurred.

The “discount” is related to “the utilitarian value” of the timing of the plea. So:
– a plea at the earliest opportunity can expect 1/3rd of their sentence.
– a guilty at a hearing to check everyone is ready for trial will usually get 1/4 to 1/5th off the sentence (saves all the witnesses, jury etc trouble but the crown have done a lot of prep work),
– a guilty plea immediately before the trial will be more like 1/10th off the sentence, perhaps just 1/20th if the trial has started but some sensitive witness had been saved from the ordeal of giving evidence.

So say at trial you would get £1000 fine, that’s reduced to £666 (probably rounded to £670) for an early guilty, £750 for a later one, or £900 just before the first witness is called. Whilst it is presented as a “discount for pleading guilty”, I think most people would see it better if it was turned on its head and was a penalty for denying it longer! In that case denying it until the trial day is actually 35% extra compared to pleading guilty at the first opportunity!

Its the crown’s job to prove their case, so if there’s bits of that that might be flakey its understandable why some people might not plead guilty until its obvious the crown have actually got their ducks in a row, especially when the underfunded, understaffed, prosecution services quite often manage to screw up the prep for a case, witnesses don’t always turn up etc. Sometimes the lateness of the plea is actually the prosecutors “fault” too – perhaps the guy in the dock has three similar cases, and he’s willing to plead guilty to the two with the best case against him if the third gets dropped, or he’ll plead guilty to manslaugher not murder / careless not dangerous driving / punching to the body not punching repeatedly to the head and body etc. Those decisions could be made much earlier but often the junior person at the earlier hearings has no decision making power. Then on the day of trial the prosecutor accepts the evidence of the higher offence is weak, just wants to go home, or knows one of the witnesses is unpredictable and could say anything so decides to accept an offer that was made months before.

Just pray you don’t get a child abuse case like I did, it still disturbs me 8 years on

@squirreliking, where are you based? Mrs EGF has to attend York Crown court.

Never been called for jury service. None of my family or that of my wife have ever been called either. The odds of that seem sufficiently low that I suspect some (bunches of) people must get missed off the list for some reason.

I got called a few years ago. As others say – have a good book, as there is a lot of waiting around.
My experience was – in the first week, half days induction/training/info giving on the monday, by lunch sent home as we weren’t required. Tues, came in, then sent home at lunch, just after the point that the rules said we could claim a full days expenses.

Weds we had a case start, didnt get picked for the jury so sent home as there wasnt going to be anything else that day.

Thurs sent home and told to come back on the monday.

Next week did Monday, but nothing planned that couldnt be taken by the new intake of jury so dismissed.

So the 2 weeks was a week and a day before being back at work.

@esselgruntfuttock I’m up in Scotland so different system.

Just pray you don’t get a child abuse case like I did, it still disturbs me 8 years on

Do you get any additional support afterwards?

Must be the season.

I’ve been requested the 7th December for 2 weeks ….

Works gonna love that. 7-21st jury duty and then I’m off for 2 weeks the 23rd.

I’ve already deferred once using work as my reason. They told me I got expenses and travel expenses …. I told them I was in Africa working and they excused me 🙂

I did it in 1997 at Newcastle Crown Court.
Day one, sat bored all day.
Day two, selected for an indecent exposure case. Guy had alledgedly gone to his door and flashed his chopper at some kid, blatantly concocted, load of kids trying to get the local odd ball in bother. There was so much doubt about ability of see him in his doorway from where they claimed, the judge put us all on a coach and took us to the scene.

The kids gave evidence on video link and giggled when the correct terms for male genitalia where used, didn’t appear to see any sense of severity. When the guy was aquitted he broke down in the dock and looked genuine.

The case ended a day before my two weeks were up. on the last day I got selected again and in the lift on the way up to the court room to be sworn in, he said “i hope you all have plenty of time because this one’s going to be a long one!”

We were told it would be a six week case and it was 378 counts of child abuse against a 10 year old boy and 12 year old girl. We had weeks of harrowing accounts from severely withdrawn kids, interviewed on camera at special units ay hospitals, their demeanour in comparison to the previous case couldn’t have been more contrasting…

When you hear a ten year old describe how an 18 stone grown man used to bully him and abuse him, they’re words that never leave you. The guy was such a bully, he even persuaded the kids mum (he was the B/F not biological father) to testify against them saying they were fantasists. We had day after day of just truly shocking info thrown at us.

The second last week was purely the judge reading his notes, like he’d recorded every word in the court, word for word, then we retired to consider our verdicts. The judge directed us toa not guilty on the first count, but the other 377 were up for debate.

It took a week to go through them, it was a massive task and it was prolonged by one guy who refused to go guilty on one of the charges,digging his heels in. depsite the face we’d convicted him on the other 376, i wasn’t about to relent. Then we got the offer to accept a majority verdict and within minutes we were all back in the court and as jury foreman, I was giving the verdicts, which took nearly two hours in itself.

The worst shock was he got a sentence not far off a driving offence.

Back in 2019 I was called up again and I refused, I wrote a letter saying after doing 8 weeks and suffering lots of mental stress on my first stint, that should be enough to exclude me from ever doing it again and they agreed and removed me from the list.

The expenses are rubbish, I was £100 a week out of pocket at the time, the food in the court thought was actually decent.

Never been called for jury service. None of my family or that of my wife have ever been called either. The odds of that seem sufficiently low that I suspect some (bunches of) people must get missed off the list for some reason.

The list is the electoral register. (The full version, not the public version) so unless you are all not on that I think you just have a coincidence.

The odds of being asked to serve on a jury at any point in your lifetime are <50% it really shouldn’t be a surprise if whilst you are still alive you’ve not been asked. It’s really not surprising if you take a sample of the population and none of them have been asked (just as it wouldn’t be a surprise if most of them had) – it’s randomness.