It's time for the monthly 'advice on speeding fine' post…

Not me, but the wife! 😀

Letter came through (addressed to me – car’s in my name) on the 14th July..”intention to prosecute blah blah blah…”
Cue lots of ribbing and ‘tips to avoid speeding fines’ such as “you see the number on the side of the road – don’t let the speedo go above that and you’ll be fine..”

However, I then look at the offence date – 5th May.

Over 2 months is a long time to issue a warrant from the feds isn’t it? It would appear 14 days is the expected time-frame…

DO you think there’s any merit in challenging this rather lengthy delay?
She may or may not have been driving too fast, but (frankly and honestly) if we don’t have to pay the fine/points then life IS easier and cheaper…!

DrP

Hi
Personally I would challenge that if after reading the terms and conditions there was an issue.
I’m happy to hold my hands up when ive done wrong (recent speed awareness course and parking fine- both deserved) but there was a a due process to follow and if it isnt then it’s worth a try.
Both my speeding ones in the last 5 years have come through within a week
Cheers
Steve

I assume the car is registered to you or your wife and not a company car?

The time taken to contact an employer than back to the DVLA takes a fair old while.

If it registered to you then I would definitely challenge it.

All registered with me. addresses etc all up to date.
The letter wasn’t written until 12th July!

DrP

Pepipoo as always BUT iirc it’s 14 days from the date of the offence unless she was pulled by a traffic car and cautioned, etc.

What speed was she doing and what should she have been doing?

Dear Officer ******,

CVVVVVVVV – Notice of Intended Prosecution

I received your letter dated *********, the references for which are detailed above. I have enclosed a copy of the Notice sent to me recently, for ease of cross-reference.

You have written to me because I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle mentioned in your Notice. My address is correct as per the details at DVLC, and the vehicle was not a Company car, and was neither hired nor borrowed.

No Officer spoke to me at the time of the alleged offence, and no accident took place. Also, no Police person has spoken with me at or near the time and place detailed in your Notice. The written Notice is the first indication from you of any intention to prosecute.

Your Notice details the alleged offence as VV:VVhrs on *********. The Notice is dated ********, and it came to me by post, received on ********.

Excluding the day of the alleged offence, this was **th day from the date detailed in your Notice.

Following discussions with the RAC Legal Helpline, please note that the Notice cannot be acted upon as it is time-expired. For this Notice to have been valid, it ought to have been with me within 14 days of the alleged offence [Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside [2009] EWHC 2924 (Admin)].

It was suggested I write back to you immediately with these comments.

Yours sincerely

VVVVVVVVV
Registered Keeper
++++

What is the date on the NIP? Irrespective of when you received it?

From – http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/cars/article/speeding-tickets-explained

“2. Request evidence of the speeding offence:
You can ask for the police and prosecutor’s evidence of the offence before the hearing. This can be helpful if you can’t remember who was driving, believe an error was made identifying the vehicle or you think a mistake was made when your speed was recorded.”

“2. Request evidence of the speeding offence:
You can ask for the police and prosecutor’s evidence of the offence before the hearing. This can be helpful if you can’t remember who was driving, believe an error was made identifying the vehicle or you think a mistake was made when your speed was recorded.”

or you were so pissed you couldn’t even recall driving….

You seem to be rushing into this and, as a result, not considering the potential changes it could bring to your life.

1. It will give you, albeit for a brief moment, the moral high ground. Every potential disagreement can be ‘won’ by the use of ‘But at least I’m not a speeding monster!’

2. I am unaware of the domestic chore arrangements at Chez P, but in my experience this kind of thing can be used to shame said monster into a number of chores which may otherwise fall to you.

3. I will leave to the readers imagination the opportunities for role play in the bed chamber, but a theme of ‘gentle punishment’ and stern admonishment would seem to fall naturally into place.

4. You could try and play ‘Rodeo’; simply wait until deeply involved in marital congress and then suggest her sister is not only a better driver, but is also better in bed and see how long you can hang on for.

It is always worth slowing down and thinking such things through; we should all take time to smell the flowers once in a while.

What is the date on the NIP? Irrespective of when you received it?

12th July – do keep up 😉 (was in my post above)

Dez – I KNOW she was driving at the time! I was at work!

What speed was she doing and what should she have been doing?

40mph on the A259 – it was one of the 30mph sections, in an otherwise 40/50mph stretch.
We’ve already had words about slowing down in villages etc, so no excuses.
I know she may have done wrong, as does she!

DrP

Sorry – If dated that long after the offence, use the letter above and they’ll drop it like a stone. Or punish your wife and send off the form.

Dez – I KNOW she was driving at the time! I was at work!

Ssshh, you fool. The cops might hear you!

Hmmm… the A259 … If you are on the East Sussex bit you are on my manor…. are you Local ? 😉

Loving crikey’s ideas… 🙂

Offer to take the points for her in return for whatever “favours” you desire?

It depends how she was caught.
If it was a camera, then yes, challenge it as it can’t be enforced.
If she was pulled over and spoken to, the NIP can be given verbally so the 14 days wouldn’t apply.
This happened to me, and it was nearly 6 months before I received the fine.

Incidentally, they then proceeded to bill me 3 times for the same offence, so don’t always assume they know what they’re doing.

Ah, the moral probity of the middle classes.

What other offences are ‘OK really, I mean everyone does it right’. Or, ‘God, abiding by legitimate sanction is just *such* a pain in the arse’

Let’s start a list.

1. Tax evasion: a cracking wheeze
2.?

Larry with a gun, pointing at the fish, in the barrel! 😀

Ah, the moral probity of the middle classes.

What other offences are ‘OK really, I mean everyone does it right’. Or, ‘God, abiding by legitimate sanction is just *such* a pain in the arse’

Let’s start a list.

1. Tax evasion: a cracking wheeze
2.?

Kind of I suppose… 🙄

I liken it to “oh jeepers, I’ve looked at the speedo and I’m accidentally going 33mph in this 30 zone…where’s the nearest law enforcer so I can hand myself in…” type situation…

We’ve been made aware of the crime, and maybe given a gimmie….!

Stoatsbrother – scrap that..it’s the A29 we do our criming…

DrP

Incest, serial depravity and a fugitive from the law.
You’re worse than immigrants!

Or punish your wife and send off the form.

You know it makes sense 😀

Kind of I suppose…

I liken it to “oh jeepers, I’ve looked at the speedo and I’m accidentally going 33mph in this 30 zone…where’s the nearest law enforcer so I can hand myself in…” type situation…

We’ve been made aware of the crime, and maybe given a gimmie….!

Stoatsbrother – scrap that..it’s the A29 we do our criming…

DrP

Not really a go at you DrP, I’m sure you’re a very decent and reasonable chap. Plus, let he who is without sin etc.

More how fascinating it is to consider our collective moral economy and how, like wealth, virtue is allocated much more than earned.

larrydavid – it’s a speeding ticket ffs. Do you actually drive on the roads?

I’m confused as to which outrage bus to get on now, it’s Europe’s fault I’ll be bound.

Not really a go at you DrP, I’m sure you’re a very decent and reasonable chap. Plus, let he who is without sin etc.

More how fascinating it is to consider our collective moral economy and how, like wealth, virtue is allocated much more than earned.

REPENT FOR YOU HAVE SINNED

larrydavid – it’s a speeding ticket ffs. Do you actually drive on the roads?

Yes I do drive. It’s a speeding ticket. Got caught speeding. Get it paid. No problem, no?

I actually live on a road where speeding is an issue, makes it a less pleasant place to live, a less amiable environment for children. Speeding creates social externalities and has negative impacts. That’s why we have speed limits, to maintain order and balance risks.

Anyway Dez, could you provide me a list of the offences which are Ok, which are iffy and which are serious. Just so I know.

I mean, stealing a push bike, no big deal eh? nobody gets hurt, it’s just a bike after all, and the insurance will pay out. They can afford it. Amarite Dez, amarite?

REPENT FOR YOU HAVE SINNED

This is the sort of thing we need. The Kirk loosening it’s grip on public life is the cause of all of this rampant sinning.

Jesus **** Larrydavid – you’re using far too many big words for a friday afternoon.
Go and have a word with yourself and don’t come back until you really understand how STW works 🙄

Obtain a new bike BEFORE getting the matter dropped due to the NIP time limit being missed (assuming not a roadside stop as above).

Larrydavid – to add a spin on the whole ‘law and order’ debacle we’ve got going on..

About a year ago two women came to my wife’s business and stole products and services totalling over £1200.
I managed to find out who these women are, where they live, and informed the police.

The police couldn’t have given less than 2 shites about the whole thing..even though the crime (and it IS a crime – theft by deception with intent) was handed to them on a plate.

So there’s a crime that’s taken place, that the enforcing personnel didn’t care about.

Now, I’m not saying 2 wrongs makes a right, and if the wife was speeding then yes, she’s guilty etc etc.
But, as demonstrated, the world is a complicated place with rules that exist, with clauses that exist, and opinions that differ.

The police saw it fit to ignore a crime because, well, i think they couldn’t be bothered TBH. No one was killed, and it’s small fry to them…
Maybe opportunity to ignore crimes is blessed upon us all.. 😉

DrP

That’s why we have speed limits, to maintain order and balance risks.

Hmmm that implies there is a consistent logic to it however, mixing 30mph with 40mph could be argued as bad design with a view to enabling authorities to have a nice little cash-cow.
The cynic in me says.
However it would typical of a Puritan mentality to blindly enourage un-thinking application of the rule of order.
Plus the rules state they must inform you within 14 days of the offence, they broke the rules ergo DrP’s missus is in the clear.

Hang on…
Since when did the word f e c k become a swear word?
So we can use the words piss, shit, shite and umpteen others but not **** – a word that is not a swear word 🙄
Mods – may I refer you to the advertising watchdog who stated as such in a complaint against Magners!

Larrydavid

The people that proscute also have to abide by the law. By sending the NIP too late they are hoping the person doesn’t know any better. That’s why we lawyers for defendants to make sure the law is carried out correctly.

Hmmm that implies there is a consistent logic to it however, mixing 30mph with 40mph could be argued as bad design with a view to enabling authorities to have a nice little cash-cow.
The cynic in me says.
However it would typical of a Puritan mentality to blindly enourage un-thinking application of the rule of order.
Plus the rules state they must inform you within 14 days of the offence, they broke the rules ergo DrP’s missus is in the clear.

You’re correct, it’s not a science, it’s a social process which might be right, might be wrong – there have been many unjust laws, and morality and the law are separate (but no unrelated). What’s interesting is exactly which laws and penalties become ‘ok’ to avoid, and through which means (e.g. by technicality or civil disobedience) and which remain ‘beyond the pale’ in any circumstance. If a bike thief got away with it because the police ballsed up their processes, would would we feel about that?

If she’s in the clear he’s not going to be able to spank her and he’ll have to do the washing up. It’s just not fair.

About a year ago two women came to my wife’s business and stole products and services totalling over £1200.
I managed to find out who these women are, where they live, and informed the police.

The police couldn’t have given less than 2 shites about the whole thing..even though the crime (and it IS a crime – theft by deception with intent) was handed to them on a plate.

So there’s a crime that’s taken place, that the enforcing personnel didn’t care about.

Now, I’m not saying 2 wrongs makes a right, and if the wife was speeding then yes, she’s guilty etc etc.
But, as demonstrated, the world is a complicated place with rules that exist, with clauses that exist, and opinions that differ.

The police saw it fit to ignore a crime because, well, i think they couldn’t be bothered TBH. No one was killed, and it’s small fry to them…
Maybe opportunity to ignore crimes is blessed upon us all..

We’ll that’s abysmal that they did nothing! As I said, I’m not having a go at you. They’ve broken their own rules, put in place to keep everyone right (see caveat above) so fair’s fair.

It’s really the general perception around OK crimes and not-ok crimes.

What grinds my gears about this type of thing really is this:

During the London riots, when all we heard about was feral youth, out of control gangs etc, we had the book thrown at some minor offenders. Meanwhile, a letting agent stole £800 of me.

poah: of course.

Since when did the word f e c k become a swear word?

It was included due to overuse, I believe.

Nowt, nothing to see here