Issues with Canyon/SRAM warranty response

Hello all, I’m in need of a little above regarding a warranty claim that had been knocked back by SRAM and ultimately, by Canyon.

My bike came with Avid Trail brakes – they have been excellent. During the last ride a fault developed where the lever moved too far forwards (away from the bars) and then upon breaking, jammed without applying the brake. No surprise, I crashed. The bike was brand new in Oct 2013, so only just over half way through the 2year parts warranty.

I contacted canyon UK who were excellent as usual – they provided a returns number and said send it direct to SRAM in Windsor, we’ll pick up the postage. This was done, easy peasy.

SRAM have now been in touch with Canyon and refused to warranty this fault – they had the cheek to suggest I pay them £70 for it to be fixed. I declined…. They said the fault was due to wear and tear.

Where do you think I stand with this? For me, it is not acceptable for a lever to develop an internal fault that causes it to become inoperative less 14 months into use.and for this to be deemed wear and tear seems bizzare. Canyon now say they are “Constrained by SRAMs decision”.

Has anyone else had a poor experience of SRAM? Can you recommend a course of action or is there any trading legislation on my side? I paid a lot for this bike and I expect to be well looked after.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Stu

I paid a lot for this bike and I expect to be well looked after

Above your statutory rights?How much it cost has no bearing.
You could get it independently assessed by a third party (as Canyon have done in sending it to SRAM).
Ultimately the liability lies with Canyon.

What are SRAM saying is actually wrong?

The only experience of SRAM warranty I’ve had was last years replacement of the brakes on my CX’er, took them 6 months to organise something.. Which was bloody annoying. They did it in the end mind, so not really the same issue as yours..

I’m assuming Hydraulic double tap shifters…

took them 6 months to organise something

So they gave you a set of cable disc’s (fitted by lbs) to use why they completely redesigned,tested and manufactured the new levers (which only showed an issue in very cold conditions) before replacing them.
Pretty well organized I reckon.

Whatever you do, don’t wait for something to be done before buying another brake.

And if you do get it fixed/replaced for free, you’ll have a spare.

tbh My experience of MTBing is that stuff breaks (and is damaged while crashing) – just replace it, and if you feel hard-done-by then buy from a different manufacturer next time.

Life is too short.

How can brake lever internals failing be classed as wear and tear?! Standard EU warranty is 2 years so if they don’t last that long then they’re not fit for purpose. I had Avid brakes of similar age with a lever problem fixed under warranty so it’s wrong they are trying to fob you off, it certainly doesn’t help their image for making rubbish brakes and isn’t going help Canyon sell bikes when they spec the brakes on their bikes. The fact the brake failing caused you to crash should set alarms bells off with them and get this resolved with as little fuss as possible!

Rorschach – Member
I’m assuming Hydraulic double tap shifters…
took them 6 months to organise something

So they gave you a set of cable disc’s (fitted by lbs) to use why they completely redesigned,tested and manufactured the new levers (which only showed an issue in very cold conditions) before replacing them.
Pretty well organized I reckon.

Incorrect, they offered but couldn’t supply that for 3 months such was the demand.

So, no not really well organised.

Sounds ike poor show to me and would make me wary of buying one of these direct sales bikes.

I’ve had 2 full XT brakes replaced by Shimano without any quibbles – the most recent replacement had an issue. Ert similar to yours

Sounds ike poor show to me and would make me wary of buying one of these direct sales bikes.

You might very well get the same response as the OP had from a LBS.
As said sort yourself out a brake, and if you do get a replacment from Canyon you’ve got a spare.

What did they say the fault was?

Thanks for the input all – to be honest I wasn’t informed what technical description or cause of the fault was. I’ll make inquiries and let you know.

Basically, from what I could work out, the push rod that links the lever and piston within the lever body appears to have become detached. This allowed the lever to move forwards away from the bars (much farther than usual, almost perpendicular to the bars)- when pulled back into place/pulled to brake, the push rod seemed to “Miss” the piston and jammed on the internal body. The lever was solid but no braking action.

That’s the best I could work out peering inside with a torch – I didn’t strip it because I didn’t want to invalidate the warranty!!

Basically, from what I could work out, the push rod that links the lever and piston within the lever body appears to have become detached. This allowed the lever to move forwards away from the bars (much farther than usual, almost perpendicular to the bars)- when pulled back into place/pulled to brake, the push rod seemed to “Miss” the piston and jammed on the internal body. The lever was solid but no braking action.

I’ve had that on a couple of different brakes. There’s a brass washer that the rod goes through, the hole can be opened up allowing the lever to move out too far and jam or just flap about the place. This is when I should point out that there’s no way either time would’ve been a warranty issue as it was cause by the lever being forced too far out and then failing. I reckon I’m with Sram on this one

Mmm, sounds like the sort of thing caused by a sharp impact. Not sure about wear and tear. Or warranty.

you can use the EU directive with the retailer to get them replaced. if its wear and tear what exactly has gone wrong with them?

did you even read the last few posts?

How can the lever ‘just move too far forwards’ on a ride of its own accord?

Surely something or somebody pushed the lever away from the bars?…mine have never had so much play in them that they flap around of their own free will and I’ve run both SRAM and Shimano brakes.

For what it’s worth I’d never buy Avids with my own money, I’ve just had them on complete builds and as soon as they fail or need a bleed they get replaced with Shimano!

I could believe it if they said crash damage but I wouldn’t count it as acceptable for a failure like that through “wear and tear” in such a short time. I use a set of Formula Oros daily that are almost a decade old ffs!

To try to answer all the questions at once:

-There haven’t been any sharp impacts to the brake lever – I’m a bit of a mincer and generally don’t go fast enough to fall off.

-I don’t know why the lever had started to move that way – it just did. Nobody pulled it the wrong way.

-Just because your brake hasn’t done it doesn’t make it impossible. As to how it can happen, in my opinion an internal failure.

Thanks though all.

Doesn’t take a sharp impact to do it, the first time it happened to me the bike had just come out of an uplift truck and must’ve been levered open against someone’s toptube or the like.

My experience of Sram warranty has always been that their on line warranty is very good , and the service received is also very good . Also the times when I have actually talked to a technician they have been very helpful and knowledgeable . Doesn’t help you to know that but based on my dealings with them I think they are very fair and reasonable when dealing with warranty claims . Could you speak to Sram directly ?

If it’s a result of the crash then I’d say it is a fair wear tear issue

Never had any issues with Sram warranty and have sent a fair few bits back as I work in a shop. Fast turnaround, helpful and generally a pleasure to deal with.

Thanks all, I’ve emailed SRAM direct now. Hopefully they will clarify their decision and we can go on from there.

One last point, I only crashed because the brake failed – not the other way around. It’s a really important distinction!

OH, and I’ve never done an uplift!

Yep, not fit for purpose. Ask them to make it good; either repair or replace. If they refuse, start small claims court proceedings.

Wow I’m surprised by some people. A £70 repair bill after an accident affecting a 14 month old component is hardly a big deal.

I’m not familiar with Avid Trail brakes, but most brakes have a similar setup. There’s a ball on the end of the push rod mated to a socket in the piston. Usually the two are held together with some sort of circlip, although sometimes it’s just a push fit/friction thing. Either way, this joint could quite easily degenerate over the course of a year and wear out. Then some sort of abnormal force pushing the lever away from the bar causes the two worn components to separate.

Everyone knows SRAM brakes are shite. You bought a cheap bike with them on, and now they don’t work. Use some of the money you saved by going direct to Canyon to buy some decent brakes that will last. Sorry, I have little sympathy for your predicament. My advice would be to put your £70 towards some Zee brakes and forget about the whole affair.

Superficial – Member

Wow I’m surprised by some people. A £70 repair bill after an accident affecting a 14 month old component is hardly a big deal.

You might be less surprised if you’d read the thread- the fault caused the accident!

I had read that. I am very skeptical that there wasn’t some sort of previous insult to the lever. Perhaps he leaned the bike up against a wall and the lever caught on something. Perhaps when loaded into a car etc. Basically it’s impossible to know for sure but highly likely that something (possibly minor at the time) happened to the lever before the accident.

Did you also read that the shop is blaming wear and tear not crash damage?

I have to say I’ve had excellent experiences with SRAM.

I have just given up on Avid brakes, but more because one of several sets needed a bleed at a bad time – uncharacteristically in my experience. Seemed to be seals giving up which is hardly a unique Avid only failing. I went Shimano on advice from the world and price, and now they’re finally bled they’re great but the bleeding was anything but the breeze you read about in anti avid rants.

My old Avids would go lever a bit further forward sometimes, admittedly usually after I’d crashed, but always just popped back. Maybe I was lucky.

I think the question is whether there’s been any unintentional abuse loading the bike in a car or similar, or if it just happened in normal use. The first is unfortunate, the second a fault. I’ve had my moments of Internet anger over stuff, the earlier advice to replace the brakes so you don’t miss riding is probably the best in the thread, then try and sort it out with Canyon or SRAM.

If you’re interested in enforcing your statutory rights, stop dealing with SRAM. Your rights are enforceable with canyon only. So any issues need to go through canyon as they are the ones you have a contract with.

This sounds like damage to me, most likely inflicted inadvertently. Think about recent rides, where your bike is stored, how it is transported etc. It could only take 1 unlucky impact or incident to cause a failure, and cost has nothing to do with it. I’d just crack on and replace them.

Thanks for the input everyone, there seems to be a fair spread of opinion – I also seem to be suspected of damaging the brake beforehand for some reason… that’s fine though and I would imagine is what both SRAM and Canyon are thinking. I can only say I want aware of any incident that had damaged my brake. I’m not a young cool buck making videos with my bike in a pick up truck. There are probably about three people who have ever handled the bike….

@Larkim – thanks for that, good advice.

I’ll wait and see what the tech response from SRAM is now, in the meantime SLX at CRC are forty six quid and that is for the whole thing, lever and caliper. Seems like a no brainer.

Last time I popped my lever off the joint I was wheeling the bike through a doorway, so it doesn’t have to have been a memorable crash to cause that kind of thing. Not saying it’s your fault, just that I can see why SRAM/Canyon might think that, as it seems you do too. Stick to your guns as long as you think is worthwhile (bearing in mind that a full set of Deore brakes can be had for only a couple of quid more than SRAM want for a repair).

Well, just a quick but really positive update.

It seems there was a bit of a communication error between SRAM, Canyon and myself. I’ve had a great chat with Danni from SRAM this morning and I’m pleased to report that the lever will be being replaced after all. I’m really pleased with this result and think that the communication from SRAM was excellent – no more messing around over email – a telephone call with a real person and everything is sorted out. Bravo SRAM.
What is even more pleasing is that SRAM have offered to replace my damaged Elixir 7 lever with an upgrade to a Guide RS lever.
As if this wasn’t good enough, they have kindly offered to replace both levers (yes, the undamaged one too…) as a set, effectively upgrading my brakes from Avid Trail to SRAM Guide RS.
Am I pleased? You betcha!

Massive thanks to SRAM – absolutely excellent customer service and thanks once again STW community for your advice.

Good result!
So what changed it from ‘wear and tear’ to ‘warranty’?

I’m not entirely sure what/if there was a reason for the change of heart – there may have been a miscommunication from what I’m told.

Very glad I didn’t accept what I was told initially, it’s likely a more accepting reaction would not have provided the drive for the decision to be re-examined.