Is this pivot for the bin, or do I just need new bushes?

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  • Is this pivot for the bin, or do I just need new bushes?
  • Premier Icon Onzadog
    Subscriber

    Did you let that run dry? How old is it? Mine are 7 years old and still look like new.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    That’s where I’m a little confused. I grease the pivots on a weekly basis, so it shouldn’t have happend. I did buy second hand, but not with much use.

    I emailled turner about what grease to use, and they were fine with Park grease. Although I now suspect mprep would have been thinner and more suited to the application.

    Hence, I’ll be buying some and purging my grease gun.

    LoCo
    Member

    Replace and strip and check all the other ones, could possible be a bike cleaner/ jet wash caused issue ?! Not you I know.

    Premier Icon Onzadog
    Subscriber

    They now recommend super lube. Bit cleaner than m-prep. I was warned off the pace stuff as it was too viscous.

    Premier Icon rickon
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    Cheers chaps. LoCo – stripped down and checked all, looks to be the main pivot and the DW link BB only, most of the load goes through them so no surprise. Annoyed as that’s £86 for two bits of aluminium and some top hats.

    Superlube…. That’s from the US isn’t it? I’ll Google it.

    Naranjada
    Member

    I’d really like to know how the blinkin flip one fits brand new journal bearings like the one in your photo onto the hex shaped spigots on the DW link plates. Mine are so tight that once you’ve pressed on by hand, say 3-4 mm max, you can’t a) push it on any further by hand, or b) get it off without tools.

    See here

    I’d say you need new journal bearings.

    LoCo
    Member

    Bit of a pain, reckon some caustic cleaner was blasted in with a jetwash and got held in there for a bit

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Hi Chaps,

    Just stripped the 5-Spot down, and I expect I know the answer to this one – but do I need a new pivot, as well as bushings, or just bushings?

    I think the damage caused by the worn pivot will cause premature wear to the new bushings.

    Anyone with opposing views?

    Cheers

    Ricks

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    So, that’s a pivot shaft not the journal bearing, well the part in contact with the bearing is the journal but its referred to as the shaft by Turner. The bearing is the bushing, the top hats.

    The top hats go on a little way by hand, and then may need a g-clamp to press fit them further.

    The pivot shaft should press in.

    The DW link plate should just press in by hand, a little grease may help.

    Is it the DW link plate that isn’t pressing onto the pivot shaft? I.e. after you’ve installed the new bushings.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Loco, you’re saying Fairy liquid. Numpties.

    Jet wash never goes near my spot, I haven’t even got a garden hose now!

    No, this is just pivot wear.

    You’ll find its worse in over-tight pivots. the hard ano wears off first, then the wear debris fills the helix and fresh grease doesn’t penetrate, and you get accelerated wear at the bush/pivot interface.

    best I’ve had from a set of turner bushes is about three, maybe three and a half years.

    If theres a step in the shaft or play when its in the bush, its best you replace it, but if you’re in a pinch, its not suddenly going to fail on you.

    You can hone the bushes to fit if they’re over tight, and its a relatively frequent occurrence that the bolts are over torqued from new which mushrooms the end of the shaft and closes down already tight tolerances.

    Its a good system when its been put together with care, but its easy to see from a google search or the mtbr forum that this happens more that Turner would like to admit.

    Despite that, I’m still running Turners 8 years after my first one.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Cheers dude, when you say you can hone the bushes to fit, what do you mean?

    Took this from an on-line dictionary.

    2. A tool with a rotating abrasive tip for enlarging holes to precise dimensions.

    DT talks about it on mtbr a while back.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Cheers SO,

    There’s play in the lower pivot and the main seat tube pivot. I’ve ordered both kits for now, was hoping to order the KTX kit from TF, but that’ll have to wait now as it looks like I need the pivot shafts.

    This pivot definitely feels baggy going in, compared to the non worn pivot I have.

    I’m assuming the play, and that the pivot feels rough means new pivot shaft time?

    Try mixing and matching the worn bushes you have. Sometimes you can get quite a tight fit, even with part worn bearings.if you can’t get a rid of the movement this way, its best to replace the whole thing.

    Naranjada
    Member

    The DW link plate should just press in by hand, a little grease may help.

    Is it the DW link plate that isn’t pressing onto the pivot shaft? I.e. after you’ve installed the new bushings.

    I’m trying to fit the pivot shafts to the DW link plate.

    Basically I intend to fit both pivot shafts to the drive side plate then insert into the frame and swing arm then fit non-drive side DW link plate to the other end of the two pivot shafts.

    Maybe I should place the pivot shafts in the frame and swing arm bushings first then push the DW link plate on, but if I can’t press the pivot shaft on to the DW link plate in my hand I’m not sure changing the assembly sequence will improve that.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Maybe I should place the pivot shafts in the frame

    This +1 🙂

    In the frame, and then press it together, it wont go in properly until you have the right torque applied, you’ll need about 5nm before they are together, and then nip up to 9nm.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    SO – I’ve switched over the DW shaft, and there’s play in the worn one still.

    I’ve got a kit from Silverfish in the post now, I was hoping to get the KTX bushings fitted, but I’m not spending an extra £50 when I dont need to 😉

    renton
    Member

    Ive just had a new set of bushes and that bit above direct from turner as the ones on my bike were so tight the rear end would not drop on its own even with the shock removed !!

    The shafts fit into the bushes and spin freely whilst not fitted to the bike but once fitted yet again they are as tight as a nats chuff so DT or Greg suggest using some fine micro mesh on the end of the shaft to wear some of the anodixing off.

    seems to have worked but I also had the same problem as naranjada above in that the new shafts will not go onto the hex spigot without a bloody good fight !!

    eckinspain
    Member

    nice floorboards

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Renton – surely if you’re filing down the shaft, you’re going to introduce play into the system, or premature wear to the bushings?

    suggest using some fine micro mesh on the end of the shaft to wear some of the anodixing off.

    That suggests the shaft has mushroomed, due to being overtightened, so you now are manually wearing it down to normal.

    renton
    Member

    I understand where you are coming from but Greg told me by email that the anodizing is sometimes a bit thicker than tolerance so he suggested wearing it down slightly to allow the shaft to move a bit more when fitted into the frame.

    Also you can sort of hone the bush to make it ever so slightly large too.

    plenty of threads on mtbr about this.

    Definatley not mushroom as they were brand new.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    I don’t know the answer to this, so bear with me:

    Will sanding down the pivot shaft have a negative affect on the life of the shaft – that wouldn’t be the case if the sanding was uniform, and didn’t have rough edges – yes?

    If it was un-uniform, and rough wouldn’t you wear the bushes? not sure I like that ‘fix’, sounds like a poor solution to a problem that shouldn’t be there – i.e the shaft isn’t fit for purpose as it is out of acceptable tolerance.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Also you can sort of hone the bush to make it ever so slightly large too.

    Which worries me, what if you go a little too far, you’ll end up with play and need to replace the bushes.

    fatsimon mk2
    Member

    if I read it right hes not talking about “sanding” the shaft but lightly “buffing” the ano on the shaft as micromesh is a fine nylon mesh a bit like a pan scourer so if used correctly should not take any of the metal off just buff the ano so long as done correctly shouldn’t cause any problems do this all the time at work(forklift service engineer)

    Which worries me, what if you go a little too far, you’ll end up with play and need to replace the bushes.

    Yeah. It kind of relies on one being mechanically sympathetic.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Cheers Renton, that’s some good reading for later 🙂

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    So, the main pivot kit arrived yesterday, I fitted it an guess what…. it had more play in it than the old one!

    I had a chat with Greg @ turner last night, and said the pivot was out of tolerance and he’d send me one out that he’d stick in the lathe. As I had the old one, I said I’d do it myself with wet and dry.

    So sanded down the old one, so the anodising can off, and refitted with the old bushes – and there’s not play.

    There’s a click from the bottom pivot on the DW Link, could this be the same problem of the shaft being ever so slightly too long?

    You get the click if you push down on one pedal, and then if you push down on the opposite pedal. So it’s something not quite tight enough, but obviously everything is torqued up right.

    renton
    Member

    The click is normally the fit between the shaft and the hex fitting on the dwindling link being slightly loose.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 30 total)

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