is the world MAD?? well scotland at least

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  • is the world MAD?? well scotland at least
  • Premier Icon totalshell
    Subscriber

    a bloke stands up, helps out a public servant and HE gets arrested and charged!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    There was a certain inevitability….

    The Daily Mail demands it

    joao3v16
    Member

    Two wrongs don’t make a right?

    Premier Icon deus
    Subscriber

    looks as though he was preventing a crime to me and therefore it was justified?

    Premier Icon woody2000
    Subscriber

    Good. Way OTT IMO, the kid was a bit of a dick, but he didn’t threaten anyone or act aggressively. Big man deserves what he gets AFAIC.

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    The big man used force where there was no legal justification. Its a clear assault.

    I am surprised his prosecution is considered in the public interest tho

    poly
    Member

    I don’t think BTP has much choice. There was an alleged offence; there was evidence that an offence may have taken place. There was sufficient media/public interest that they couldn’t ignore it.

    Arrested and charged is not the same as found guilty.

    The procurator fiscal will need to decide if it is in the public interest to prosecute. Assuming they do, the court will then decide if an offence was committed. If the police don’t do the first bit then they appear to be doing the judge’s job for him.

    I’m pleased to see that the “fare dodger” has also been reported, and thus can be dealt with by the judicial process rather than STW law!

    passtherizla
    Member

    fair dodging is hardly a crime when compared with assault.

    RealMan
    Member

    fair dodging is hardly a crime when compared with assault.

    True. I could understand someone fare dodging to stop an assault, but to commit assault to stop fare dodging?

    poly
    Member

    The ‘fare dodger’ hasn’t been charged with fare dodging, he has been reported for trespass and “threatening or ABUSIVE behavior”

    passtherizla
    Member

    I can however understand Bigman’s actions… he probably just wanted to get home and the little scrote was stopping the train form going anywhere. doesn’t make it right though.

    trespass and abusive and threatening behaviour sounds more serious than fare dodging so it’ll probably al work out just fine.

    druidh
    Member

    I wonder if he’s jumped the barriers to get on to the train then?

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    I’ve just contacted my MSP:

    A public spirited member of the public who intervened to help out a train conductor is now being charged with assault.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101

    We need the law changed to protect people who are acting in the public interest. They will not generally be aware of the minutae of regulation concerning their actions.

    Samaritans should not be put to the sword.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    As above, the actions of big lad were OTT, however I don’t see how it is in the public’s interest to prosecute him.
    FWIW, I also think that more people need to stand up to little scrotes like the fare dodger – suddenly half a carriage all standing up and giving the lad a hard time would support the conductor and maybe persuade the lad it is not work doing.

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    epicyclo -where does it stop? should I be allowed to assault people who park illegally?

    RealMan
    Member

    Samaritans should not be put to the sword.

    If instead of a student, what if it had been an old man, or a 14 year old girl? Would his actions still make him a samaritan?

    suddenly half a carriage all standing up and giving the lad a hard time would support the conductor and maybe persuade the lad it is not work doing.

    Yes, everyone knows how persuasive a mob can be.

    You expect to pay a fine if caught fare dodging. You don’t expect to get chucked off a train by some fat guy. They’re both in the wrong.

    We need the law changed to protect people who are acting in the public interest

    Ushering the guy off the train is one thing, throwing him to the platform is another……

    user-removed
    Member

    Yup. Without getting all dailymailranty about it, there really is a serious lack of civic responsibility in the UK, and this is perhaps not the best result. As I mentioned in the other thread, my Ozzie mate is constantly amazed at what people will put up with here (phones blaring music on public transport, everyone just sitting and ignoring bad behaviour). She always says something, and the scrotes are usually so surprised at being confronted that they comply.

    There was a fascinating prog on Radio 4 last year about this very subject – it really is a British phenomenon.

    ojom
    Member

    epicyclo -where does it stop? should I be allowed to assault people who park illegally?

    Depends if you have decided some laws are ok to break in your head though i suppose… πŸ™‚

    I think Matt is correct – if the whole carriage showed a bit of unity and spoke out against the lad he’d might have had a change of heart.

    The big guy shouldn’t have done it. Manhandling someone off a train, resulting in injury (even if it’s only a scratch)is assault. It’s pretty plain to see what he did.

    bottom line is that you can’t assault people for being a dick, or rude. It’s illegal.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    Ushering the guy off the train is one thing,

    don’t think ushering was an option

    whatnobeer
    Member

    epicyclo -where does it stop? should I be allowed to assault people who park illegally?

    Oh ffs, not this again.

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Not sure which thread is going to run with this but…

    He’s only been charged at this stage – not found guilty. Clearly the polis and CPS thought there was enough evidence to prosecute. A jury of his peers may find him not guilty yet.

    I bet he’s very grateful to the guy who took the video and posted it up (who, incidentally, came across as a smug little tosser when I heard him interviewed on the radio.)

    EDIT: If not the CPS, then the PF. Not sure how it works up there in Scotchlandshire

    crispedwheel
    Member

    whatnobeer – Member

    epicyclo -where does it stop? should I be allowed to assault people who park illegally?

    Oh ffs, not this again.
    This.

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    Its a serious point tho.

    if this is acceptable then what is not?

    We know its acceptable to use force to prevent violence – thats well known in law. this was a non violent crime but some folk think force is acceptable. so where do you draw the line?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    bottom line is that you can’t assault people for being a dick

    Just as well, really. I’d be spending all day, every day, punching people πŸ˜€

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    …in self defence binners. πŸ˜€

    crispedwheel
    Member

    Its a serious point tho.

    It’s groundhog day, is what it is.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I’ll line ’em up! You knock em down DD πŸ˜‰

    if i could punch people holding up my journey then does that mean every bad driver i see i could go and punch? that’s roadrage though and i’m pretty sure STW would class that as assault

    just a thought πŸ˜€

    justatheory
    Member

    Dog owners not controlling their dogs?

    Premier Icon feenster
    Subscriber

    I am surprised his prosecution is considered in the public interest tho

    Surely to not charge the big man with assualt would be to send a message that it’s ok for anyone to use whatever physical force they feel like to sort out a situation they don’t like, and if what you are doing is ‘popular’, you are clear to break the law?

    motivforz
    Member

    He was abusive towards the staff, so I support the actions of ‘big man’. If it were an old man or little girl sitting there being abusive, I’d not have an issue with doing the same (if they’re abusive and struggle as much as the teenager did). If more people did this the world would be a better place in my opinion, far too may people happily sit idly by watching whilst a minority negatively impact everyone.

    GlitterGary
    Member

    If more people did this the world would be a better place in my opinion, far too may people happily sit idly by watching whilst a minority negatively impact everyone

    Sshhhh! Don’t say that, everyone is going to frown at you and tut beneath their breath.

    Junkyard
    Member

    i have no issue with the carriage acting or someone acting but the force used was excessive and he did throw him to the ground- I will accpet the first as a stumble.

    Doubt a jury will convict though tbh.. a warning would suffice and some info about what is and is not reasonable force

    richc
    Member

    RLJ’s should have bikes confiscated and crushed, I reckon and if they come up with a crappy excuse that its safer to RLJ chuck in a free flogging.

    RealMan
    Member

    richc – Member
    RLJ’s should have bikes confiscated and crushed, I reckon and if they come up with a crappy excuse that its safer to RLJ chuck in a free flogging.

    Thanks for sharing πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    TandemJeremy – Member
    epicyclo -where does it stop? should I be allowed to assault people who park illegally?

    Come off it TJ (whatever it is), this is Scotland, where violence is quick and sudden.

    I believe the big guy felt that an old man was in need of protection. This had all the hallmarks of a nasty incident about to kick off. If you think this is the same as illegal parking, oh dear.

    Are you one of those who pull the curtains when you hear screams in the street?

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    and if what you are doing is ‘popular’, you are clear to break the law?

    Actually, there is some value in considering this in the context of a civilised society. If we broadly accept that the fare dodger was sufficiently out of line to warrant being ejected, then maybe we have to accept that the ejection was hardly going to be gentle.

    If we accept that, then we can then decide what level of subsequent injury (if any) to the fare dodger is acceptable. By “we”, of course I mean lawmakers and the judiciary.

    However, if we’re too scared that might descend quickly into vigilantism, fair enough, but it’s worth considering the possibility that the application of the current law (no, not sure how it’s different in Scotland) can be altered in its application for the common good.

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