dh riding is just as exhuasting as riding xc, dont get me wrong

even with an uplift or a chairlift you will spend less time in teh saddle compared to xc but it is hard work

i ride my xc bike upstuff or i push my dh bike upstuff it depends what type of riding im doin

eg this weekemnd dh bike at aston weekend after xc at swinley weekend after dh at cwmcarn 2 weeks later xc at woburn and so on

Some aspects of the sport have been uncool for ages, but it doesn't stop people doing them. Being an XC (short course) racer is probably regarded as uncool – mainly because overtly wanting to go faster isn't seen as cool by many riders. It's OK to 'session' downhill runs to get your speed up, but XC training to go faster is somehow looked on as 'cheating' for regular trail riders.

Everyone races their mates, and if you beat Big Jim or Fast Sid when you don't normally, then you feel a surge of pride. But if you then say 'Ah, that's because I've been doing hill-reps for the last few weeks' then your victory will somehow be diminished in the eyes of your vanquished foes. It's as if you have to rely on some secret force to get quicker, or 'just riding around a bit' rather than overt training.

Er, anyway I'm ranting – and that's probably a fine theme for an editorial or fitness article right there. I just want to add my vote for the old long, technical hillclimb as being one of the ultimate mountain bike disciplines – speed, fitness, skill, all wrapped in one. Dull to watch, but immensely satisfying…

I'd like to know if those who think riding downhill is 'easier' or less effort than riding uphill have done a proper days uplift assisted downhill riding? I'm not 'xc' fit so a 40miler xc ride will nearly kill me but a days uplift always tires me more and leaves me with more aches the day after. I've spent long periods of time riding ski lifts and still find an uplift day on a dh bike far harder on the body than any all day xc ride could ever inflict.

I have one rule on the bike, If I can wlak faster than I can pedal then I get off and walk (many years of walking in the mountains has made it easier for me).
Also have got to say I am normally far more knackered after a full day of DH at cwmcarn than I am doing a 30 odd K route in the peak or elsewhere.
Its total body fatigue not primarily the legs is the main difference.
Still love doing both however

regarding kids these day and fitness staminia etc, when i was a teenage/early 20s we would go out, party all night and go straight to work, now if my nephew 17 or his mates are awake after 2am they have sleep allday to recover, as for working forget it, i had some young lads helping me landscape a large garden they had to finish early they were tired poor dears

starting to sound like a python sketch in here….

Here is a simple, proven and undeniable fact about exercise

You can train long or you can train hard. You can not do both at the same time

Think of this: A 100 meter runner can run flat out if pushed for maybe 30 seconds then that's it. A marathon runner can keep there pace for 2 hours plus. Both will be knackered but in different ways. Neither of them can do the others race and win.
So XC riding/racing falls into the first part of that simple undeniable fact. DH racing/riding falls into the second.

Top DH racers do a lot of XC and road miles because they have to be fit to go fast downhill. The muscles in the body need to be able to withstand a beating for several minutes and in some cases 13-45 minutes.

If the UK was full of mountains DH would be a lot bigger because ultimately its a lot more fun than climbing up the things. Unfortunately the UK doesn't have a lot of DH sized mountains that last 3-8 minutes of gravity driven fun so therefore to get the most out of the UK you need an all mountain bike which is gonna weigh high 20's to mid 30's and is a bit harder to get up the steep climbs, hence people push.

As for North America having less trails than the UK, my answer to that is: Are you on crack?

solamanda in someways yes i would agree but i think big xc days take longer to recover from.

I thought DH was for fat boys who just roll down hills. It must be easy, they seem to have time to do all sort of tricks and pose for the cameras. 🙂

The truth is they are pushing uphill because of the weight of those heavy derailleurs.

It is the weight of the bike and they may be doing a downhill several times instead of doing the loop like you.I moved to Canada this year and bought my first downhill bike after sampling one of the bike parks,full day at one of them and you know about it,not done many xc rides since being here as its only $30-40 for a lift ticket for a full days fun,I only ever climbed hills to do the down on the other side anyway if I'm honest

I am very old skool
I enjoy my donwhills so much more if I have earnt them 🙂

I love riding up hills, i am psychotic

As for North America having less trails than the UK, my answer to that is: Are you on crack?

Have you not noticed all the bridleways (and errrm footpaths) on all the OS maps.

We have absolutely zillions of miles of legal trails. America, with no right of way network has way less. It also has massive areas of mountains and forests where bikes are completely prohibited (national parks).

I've ridden with US riders, and it is very cool when you visit, but they often seem to have very limited local trail networks, and always have to be driving to ride, which isn't so cool compared to our rights of way. When you ride with them in the UK, they are always amazed when you are going across what is obviously people's land, and don't really understand why on earth the landowner doesn't just chuck you off.

I've met people who were very proud that their large city has 50 miles of legal biking trails. When even my small town of 20,000 people has more tnan that within easy riding distance (and way more if you include certain footpaths / forestry stuff that is a grey area and pretty much everyone rides).

Our trails are also cooler in that they often go to places – for example I can ride from home to work (about 20 miles), with about 3 miles of road, a few miles of boring boring cycle path, and loads of proper off road tracks, almost 100% legally. You don't have the same thing when you're limited to a relatively small set of recreational trails in the middle of nowhere.

The USA is a great place to go on holiday for riding mind – they have some very well developed trails, you don't tend to need to navigate, and they have some pretty big mountains.

Same for New Zealand – was fun working there for 6 months, but would be a pain having only those trails to ride forever, not having the same ability to explore further on rides and find new trails, or to travel places off road.

Joe

Also, back on topic, it seems pretty stupid to only enjoy riding downhill, if you ride in the UK (and aren't using uplift). You'll spend 3 times as much time going uphill, you might as well get fit enough to enjoy that part of the ride (I'm not saying that uplift assisted downhill isn't hard, but just riding xc and walking the ups is pretty obviously way easier than riding it all).

I've never met anyone who didn't enjoy riding uphill for any reason other than because they were unfit. I have been riding with seriously good downhillers on xc rides, and they completely wasted me on the uphills – one of the most crazy downhill guys I've met is someone who lives in Vancouver, and rides up the mountains there to keep himself in shape & for the challenge of it. I always think it is rubbish downhillers who hate riding uphill – the good ones will spend too much time in training riding the uphills to hate it.

Joe

Who rides mountain bikes for the climbs?

People who get off at the first sign of an uphill section suck big time (they should at least try to ride it). It's satisfying riding to the top of a big hill, but not much fun.

agree with just abotu everything appart form the assertion that you don't need to be fit to ride downhill, maybe not for the average gnarlcore lite STWer who sees a downhill section as being cleared without a dab as a success and scorns Sam Hill for putting a foot down and clear lack of skill for using flat pedals which as they all know are for beginers 😛

Arguably mountainbiking is already like skiing in the Alps, but we'll never see it like that in this country (Innerleithen excepted), even the skiing in Scotland looks more like a nursery slope. Then again places like Sheffield's ski village and other big dry slopes nearby to big population centers would make awesome locations for mini Whistler(esque) bike parks.

I was impressed by a young 'uns response on an STW ride on Exmoor in the summer.Road climb from Webbers Post to Dunkery and he was walking .As i got level with him he said my bikes too heavy for climbing .I answered i'm 30 years older than you .
His reply well youv'e had 30 years more practice then !!!!What a reply fair do's !!!

I'm with mike @ dialled on this one.

Disagree strongly with Chipps though, I don't think anyone says training/just riding a lot and getting fitter as "cheating". Most people I know are grudgingly respectful of the fit b*ggers who cruise up everything and would like to be able to do the same but know they're too lazy to put the work in (me included!). Being able to ride up in a degree of comfort has been one of the pleasant side-effects of riding for a living – I get out often enough to be fit!

the skiing in Scotland looks more like a nursery slope

Aye, right!

That's a marked run he's standing at the top of (Easy Gully at Nevis Range). Cf Backtrack, Chancer & Summit Gully at Nevis or Fly Paper at Glencoe.

I don't see how being so gay that you can't pedal up a slope can be percieved as cool. Crikey, next it'll be cool to eat junk food and be fat and lazy 🙂

k

ok, not every slope, but on average you'd have to agree that scotland isn't quite on a par with the Alps, you'd need TJ levels of blinkerdness not to think that?

I always think it is rubbish downhillers who hate riding uphill – the good ones will spend too much time in training riding the uphills to hate it.

I think you don't mean hating riding uphill but instead refusing to ride uphill. I think you'll find alot of people hate riding uphill but still do alot of climbing.

Some strange attitudes here, I don't recognise what some of you are describing at all.

All the mountain bikers I've met have respect for fit riders – the kind who pass you uphill in the middle ring while you're in the granny – and see that fitness as something to aspire to.

I've seen people pushing up that climb at CyB as well, it's quite near the end so I'm not surprised. A lot of riders will probably be knackered by that point!

Unfit people ride bikes too.

For me I couldn't enjoy a good downhill unless i'd earned it. I mainly ride with guys in their 40's and early 50's, we all ride what ever is in front of us. We grind on the way up and hop, jump and sometimes skip on the way down. Occasionally we're joined by young kids who do the same, maybe that because the hills and downs around surrey don't have anything that huge but for what I see up is just as cool as down.

Something I notice, is that when our fave MTB journalists were young, thin and fit, it was the done thing to aspire to be an XC racer-type, to have a light, efficient climbing bike, and to go up hills like a rocket.
As our hero's have got older, we've gradually been sold the line that we should all be riding something softer, more skill-compensatory, more downhill oriented, and that its undignified to look like you're trying.
I dont think the two things are unrelated. 🙂

Its a conspiracy, there is something bigger at work here. maybe the reds are gonna take all our ups and just leave us with downs, they're gonna put all our ups together to build a climb to mars. Damn ruskies.

17 here, and love the climbing almost as much as the descents.

What all these 29ers and SSers and such don't realise is that its not niche anymore. The real niche thing is riding uphill.

RealMan – Member
What all these 29ers and SSers and such don't realise is that its not niche anymore. The real niche thing is riding uphill.

And isn't that what the SSers and 29ers like doing 🙂

I'm 15 and I do hill reps as training to race xc…. YES!!!! im more Niche than Epicyclo and his Flexy bike!

Whatever floats yer boat, surely!

My friend and I always go for the uphills to compensate for the fact that we're obscenely slow going down them and are crap at jumps!

Nice on the odd occasion where the DH Demons pass us on the drops but we ride past them as they're pushing their machines uphill!

Cullen_bay, hopefully, you'll be one of the few that SHOULD be kicking my arse! 😀

To be fair to DHers, if your hammering 1000s of rocky vertical metres in a day, your gonna feel wrecked.

I've only done one car-shuttle day doing singletrack on the Qs (Crowcombe to Holford). We did 6 trails in the time we normally do 3 when riding up. And I felt half as tired afterwards. I realise this is no comparison with a full day ripping DH trails in Morzine!

Martin said it felt like cheating and has refused to shuttle again. 🙄

you could say xc is all about fitness
whereas dh was more about skill

obviously its not that simple you need a bit of both to do either one

Riding up hill is a bit like being clever at school. Because a large proportion of people can't do it well they try and pass it off as being uncool. However, those in the know, realise that's its something essential if you are to enjoy your riding in most areas of the UK.

riding uphill with mates is a mini willy waving comp , no-one admits it but theres tremendous satisfaction wheel to wheel as you grimace , ebb and flow, and approach the top with grunts , long growls and even the sound soldiers make charging with bayonets over tough bits ( maybe thats just me ..) ….and the best bit, casually riding round in small circles at the top as the ones that have been broken wheeze up – brilliant ! If it was all easy theres no challenge to yourself or mates . Im a pussy on gnarly downhill though , might explain it!

i hate uphills but the only reason i do them is because i know there is a sweet downhill after it, also it burns alot of calories, like today i was out first time in 2 weeks as ive been on holiday, i did loads of uphills and all my energy just disapeard and got stuck in awefull weather on the tops and it was freeziing, not good at all 🙁

I love a decent climb (besides, Bontragers are made for 'em).

There was a great quote some years back from (I think) Wade Simmons about how beating a technical climb was like putting together the pieces of a puzzle – which pretty much nails the satisfaction of it. And that from somebody more noted for his skill at going downhill. 😀

I consider this fad to be bad for cycling, and contrary to the spirit of cycling. It is effectively just a variant form of motorcycle racing, since most of the power is provided by the machinery that carries the rider and bike to the top of the run. Bicycling should be a human-powered activity, or it is not bicycling to me.

– Sheldon Brown on DH racing

I believe this to be partially true, cycling should be 'human-powered' but as long as there is a good balance between the 2 disciplines, DH & XC, then I don't think it matters, variety is the spice of life as they say.

Sheldon was a very good guy,m but sometimes he talked a load of old ****.

I've nothing against uphills but for the most part they're a neccesary evil. Technical climbing, I really like, but endless grinding up boring climbs (which is what 9/10th or more of all the climbing we do is, I reckon) only serves 2 purposes- it makes me fitter, and it gets me to the good bits.

I did a day's lift-assisted "XC downhill" at Fort William this year. It was fantastic. Some people see it as an easy option, but I was still utterly shattered by the end, and I'd done about 40km of "proper" riding with 4500 feet of descent, with only a couple of hundred feet of climb. The lift assist just meant that instead of burning myself out on the climbs, I was burning myself out on the descents instead. Every bit as tiring, just considerablly more fun.

There'll never be a day when we stop riding upwards, IMO, but it's daft to turn up your nose at a bit of assistance. And it's particularily daft to think of it as an easy option/unfit person's way out, just says to me that some people in this thread (Sheldon included) haven't a clue what they're talking about.

I've nothing against uphills but for the most part they're a neccesary evil. Technical climbing, I really like, but endless grinding up boring climbs (which is what 9/10th or more of all the climbing we do is, I reckon) only serves 2 purposes- it makes me fitter, and it gets me to the good bits.

This.

Try doing the Mega if you think riding (mostly) downhill is easy!

Nothwind you are wise, but Sheldon was also wise. Personally I like climbs because it's part of the game but wish I could get some lift assistance around here so I can [cough] polish my downhilling skills.

I think they might be something to this and we are all to blame.
When i got the mtb bug many moons ago it was on hard tails with 70mm of crap suspension and steeper angles etc. Over time everything has developed into 5inch full suss bikes with slack angles which are so much more fun to ride but are not so great at riding up steep stuff even for the fit riders. Along comes the next generation and they think these bikes are what its all about and hey ho see no problem in pushing alot more than we might do because they never had the history on hard tails with steeper angles that let you climb better. Not that you can't buy a good xc bike these days but all mountain trail bikes seem to be where its at. Recently I met a couple of 17 year olds just getting in to the sport on a ride and they where riding trek remedies with no idea of how to ride up anything remotely steep!