Is 12 speed highly sensitive to hanger alignment?

New bike, 12 speed AXS mullet setup installed. B screw is set per the tool, correct chain is installed and sized according to their guide. Yet the chain rubs the cogs of the adjacent sprockets in both directions so using the micro adjust just makes it better at one end and worse at the other end of the cassette and vice versa if I go the other way. No setting prevents excessive noise and catching of teeth.

I’m thinking the only thing left that it can be is hanger alignment, or, is it just a crappy compromised setup because of chain line, being a mullet system?

Mine is perfect in every gear

Hanger alignment is key

Every increase in number of gears has made the hanger alignment more critical.

Yes.

Are the hub endcaps and axle assembly all seated correctly? Might be causing an alignment issue.

Yep, very.

Every time  I’ve had shifting issues it is after something has smacked my rear derailleur. Always fixed by doing a quick hangar alignment.

Make sure the chain is the right way up? Try a different mech – if it is bent (e.g. in transit) it will also produce the described issues. Set up AXS before?

Not only are higher cassette cog numbers more sensitive to hanger alignment but I believe that wide range cassettes put more leverage on that hanger so they’re more likely to go out of true.

Yes, every single 12 speed bike I built up out the box necessitated a check/tweak with the hanger alignment tool because they rarely work without.

Yes. Get a decent hanger alignment tool. Worth the investment.

Yes, very much so, I’ve posted about this before. Far more sensitive to hanger alignment than 11 speed in my experience. If you run 12 speed… You need an alignment tool!

And never assume that because a bike (or hanger) is new, that it’s straight!

It’s a brand new bike, I do have an Alpkit near me I can take it to since I just got it a week ago but I’m worried they won’t really know what they’re doing with it and whether I should just bite the bullet order an alignment tool and do it myself since I’ll probably need to use one in the future anyway.

Also, check the cassette isn’t bent. I sent 2 GX cassettes back to SRAM that were both bent out of the box.

Hey an alignment tool. All my hangers new and old needed a tweak

SRAM eagle and chains past 0.5% seem really fussy to everything. Hanger, b tension etc.

Shimano does seem to mind much at all.

Since using frames with UDH I’ve had no alignment issues, currently got a Burgtec one on, 12sp set up has been a doddle. On my previous frame I was getting my alignment tool out every few months and constantly tweaking the gears trying to reach perfection.

“Also, check the cassette isn’t bent. I sent 2 GX cassettes back to SRAM that were both bent out of the box.”

Is it obvious if they are? It doesn’t look it but the tooth profile is so odd that i can’t tell. It’s an NX cassette

Yes, had a few new bikes that were out, buy a decent alignment tool. 12 speed is hyper sensitive to hanger alignment.

Is it obvious if they are? It doesn’t look it but the tooth profile is so odd that i can’t tell. It’s an NX cassette

yes, spin the wheel either in a stand or with the bike upside down and look at it from the back or front, you’ll see it oscillating.

Or, remove the cassette and put it on a flat surface and see if it’s raised at any point by pressing round the edge.  This is harder as there is some small movement even in a straight one.

Okay, thanks everyone. Sounds like an alignment tool would be a worthwhile investment in the long run.

Very sensitive. The XT 12 speed I recently fitted drove me mad trying to get it indexed properly until I thought to check the hanger. Hammered it flat and all was well.

It’s a brand new bike

when i started out (5 speed) it didn’t matter, any old shit would work within certain limits. by the time i got to 9 and 10 speed (working as shop and team mechanic) probably 1 in 3 needed adjusting straight out of the box, price didn’t make much difference. Record equipped Colnago or Tiagra on a mid range Trek.

Now i’m looking at 11 and 12 speed everything, it’s more like 50% or more.

In fact, every bike i get hold of to build, service or fit new driveline parts (not many these days) i check the hanger as a matter of course.

TBH, my ancient hanger alignment tool is probably now too worn out and knackered to be used without the 30+ years of practice at hanger straightening that i’ve managed to accumulate!

Weird stuff to try. Advance the chain by one tooth on the cassette. The shifting ramps line up better with either the inny or outy plates, I cant recall which but it did make a difference to noise on a GX cassette

Weird stuff to try. Advance the chain by one tooth on the cassette. The shifting ramps line up better with either the inny or outy plates, I cant recall which but it did make a difference to noise on a GX cassette

Surely that only works on the even cogs?

No end of trouble with mine.
Make sure the quick link is the right way round. Some are directional.
Bloody ebike is 12speed, of all things that should be 10 speed it’s a flipping ebike.

12 speeds are very, very sensitive to alignment, especially if the hanger is bent along the back-front axis and not left-right. That is more difficult to see by eye also. Brand new hangers can be bent, and it may have gotten bent in the bike box during transport also.

Another thing is that if the cable and casing are not in good shape and there is extra friction on the cable, it will cause poor shifting that cannot be fixed by adjustment. When diagnosing shifting issues, I always first check the hanger, then check the cable and casing. Even new bikes can have problems with the casing – it may have a kink somewhere, or the ends might not be cleanly cut or frayed.

Personally, I am much more happy with 11 and 10 speeds, and have no plans of getting any 12-speed systems for my own bikes. Not worth the hassle, as there are no mountains where I live.

12 speed is highly sensitive to everything it seems to me. I do genuinely think 12s is a step too far.

I’d really like to see someone challenge the current orthodoxy and do a wide range 1×9 drivetrain under a banner of longevity and waste reduction.

I live in a rather flat area, and for years now my most used bike is a 1×9. I have a 30 tooth front and 11-36 cassette (largest Shimano does) and its enough for me. Works really well, have a bashguard and Jumpstop so chain never comes off with no clutch either. The smallest gear rarely gets used.

And the parts are dirt cheap compared to this AXS stuff!

You can add me to the list of finding 12 spd Shimano a bit too fussy.

Which alignment tools are people using?

DAG 2.2 and for some reason it amuses me announce to the hanger ” D’ya like Dags?”