So that’s that.  It was the last day of my son’s schooling yesterday – GCSE exam in the am, a bit of generally tolerated horseplay and signing of shirts and whatever at lunch and then all sod off (inset day today). Of course the Y7-10 go back for another 3 weeks or so, but that’s us done – 7 overlapping years of my daughter and son, finished.

In this wrap up we’ve learned of a few teachers leaving, and one in particular I’m gutted by. They have been brilliant to both my kids but esp my son who has needed a huge amount of support. They’re also a brilliant teacher; not a fashionable subject and not one either of my kids were massively enthused by but they made lessons a joy; lively, engaging, well controlled (had that experienced teacher ability to wither a trouble maker in an instant). Sadly, they’re done and are leaving the profession. I think remaining in education somewhere (charity?) but if people like this teacher are being lost we are not valuing their abilities properly.

I’ll see them next week at ‘Prom’ (I know, let’s not go there) and I’ll tell them what a help they’ve been and what a loss they’ll be. But to all teachers, it’s a tough job and getting tougher with the lack of respect from pupils and parents alike and so – thanks for all you do, or did.

Who else has a teacher that inspired you or your kids, and needs a belated thankyou even if they probably aren’t going to see it?

and just because

Some teachers go that extra mile. I remember the geography teacher with long hair and a beard who shaved it all off and went totally clean shaven for charity.

Pupils also said it made his penis look larger according to the reports in to paper.

No particularly inspiring teachers for me, just lucky to have a lot of very good, experienced and competent ones.

My kids both had a really good teacher at primary school who ran the “maths club” for those that way inclined. Stretched them, challenged them, supported them, made it “OK” to be academic. Two of the six in my lad’s year are at Oxbridge, which isn’t bad for a (large) village primary school.

Just as important are the teachers that can support and guide the kids who aren’t academic, engage their interest and help them find their path to go forward.

That Wrighty clip always makes it dusty in my house.

Along with this:

Teachers in general are amazing.
You get the odd one who shouldn’t be there, but it is a job i am sure i couldn’t do, so am very thankful for them and think they should be paid more

+1 on doing a really, really challenging job, with a layer of challenge, daily moving stress, picking up the pieces / supporting young people who haven’t had a fair chance, and a layer of bureaucracy that few understand. And then usually do a sterling job.

I know our kids wouldn’t be who they are today without the teachers and educators in their life.

(said as an ex-teacher who now teaches teachers and meets hundreds of them yearly).

It’s a hard but can be rewarding job. Where the Tories’ policies have got us: few applicants for PGCE, Teach First struggling to recruit, schools don’t want student teachers for fear of effects on test results, teachers don’t want to join management because the hassle is not commensurate with the pay differential, supply teachers losing half of what the school pays to the agencies, academy trust schools doing less well than LA schools. Zahawi claims to be able to raise an army of supply teachers if teachers go on strike. Who in their right mind would want to become part of all that?

My kids go to a new Welsh language secondary school. I am bowled over by modern teaching methods; the inclusivity and ability to allow every pupil to find their ‘thing’ and achieve is a whole different world to the education I received in the 80s and 90s.
All the teachers there are brilliant.
Only 2 years left before our youngest leaves and heads out into the big bad world of FE college which I fear will be a very different ball game.

Where the Tories’ policies have got us:

My kids go to a new Welsh language secondary school

And mine have been through the Scottish education system.

While none are perfect, and said as someone who has the luxury of working across all 4 national education systems in the UK as well as International Schools, the English education system is becoming rather extreme. And that is not the teachers fault.

Everyone remember this when teachers are painted as the greedy enemy in the press in coming months. Because they will be. Hug a teacher when you next see one (or if you’re English, substitute in a handshake, let’s not show too much… stiff upper lip). So many burn the candle at both ends and have to deal with stuff, day to day, that would send many of us over the edge. Just trying to keep kids safe, never mind educating them, is a hard, hard job.

Teaching is so much more professional than when I was at school in the 80s. Some of the characters I encountered would never be allowed near kids today. I’m always impressed by the dedication of my kids teachers, they do a great job. I am slightly annoyed by the claim that teachers jobs are too hard though when I think about some of the crap I used to have to deal with in private industry and what people I know have to do in other jobs. No doubt the bureaucracy is worse and targets are harder, but there is job security, job satisfaction, reasonable pay and of course more holidays than anyone else. Am happy to be persuaded otherwise if people have examples.

‘The extreme English system’: I was at a school where the new head announced no-one could go on training courses for a year. That didn’t play well with me as an examiner for two boards, an exam reviser and an executive member of a professional association. That year the school became an academy and the head got a £50k bonus (Companies House).

Experienced staff are leaving in droves. Lack of new ones coming through is nothing new. Other support staff can get paid more at Macdonald’s or Lidl without any of the stress. I have no skin in the game other than my partner being a head teacher of a large primary but it seems to me that children are literally the future of the country and if you were interested in that you’d be investing in education properly.

All this lot not know how to do is break things though so no-one should be holding their breath.

Is there a happiness split between Primary and Secondary Teachers?

I know 3 primary school teachers and they all seem fine with their lot. And rarely moan about the job.

Secondary school ones look like they’ve been hit by a bus at the end of the week. Including my niece who did all the training and lasted 2 years before she quit. She now works for a council in child services as a commissioning officer as that was lest stressfull!

Secondary school teacher here….

This year (in fact this term!) had been extremes.

From being assaulted by a Yr11 student twice, to yesterday taking an absolutely delightful group of Yr9 students to a technology show at the NEC.

On the way home I bumped into an old GCSE and A level student of mine (she’s now 26). Not seen her in 8 years, and she ran up to me, hugged me and said that she still remembers my A-level lessons as the high point of her time at school 🙂 made me very happy!

Saw some stats the other day that recruitment for Physics teachers (not my subject) is at 15% of what is required. I’d lay the blame squarely on the Tories for that.

I have to agree – on the whole teachers are great. Our two girls are very different academically – one being a learning sponge and just needs a bit of guidance which she gets but the other struggles a bit at times. She started secondary school getting 1s, 2s and 3s in most subjects (they score 1 – 9) but she is now regularly getting 6s, 7s and 8s in core subjects (and has just got an 8 in English which she struggled with) and that is 100% down to the excellent support she gets. She does have some external English and maths tutoring to help her, but it’s the teachers supporting her that is making the difference. She’s going to be going into yr9 in the ‘regular’ maths group now rather than in the low-achievers group. We couldn’t be happier for her.

And she can run a 14sec 100m at 13 yrs old (only just turned 13 this month). But that isn’t the tutoring, it’s just me being proud dad LOL!

Both my kids finished secondary school this week (GCSE’s for one and A levels for the other) and we are all very happy that they won’t be going back into the system again (University for one, college for the other) neither had a particularly positive experience at secondary schools, not the fault of the teachers i hasten to add, but the entire system is broken.

I am slightly annoyed by the claim that teachers jobs are too hard though

You’re annoyed?

My partner and her leadership team are ruined by about half way through the term. Every term. By the time July rolls round they’re hanging on by their finger nails to any shred of sanity they have left. I work with a former head of physics who is brilliant and a lovely person but got fed up of working flat out 6 days a week through term time and had to leave for the sake of mental health.

Also I think I am correct in saying that teachers aren’t paid all that holiday time.

Undoubtedly there are some who can cruise but generally speaking if you think they have it easy you don’t have an accurate grasp of the situation.

I always respected teachers, but homeschooling during lockdown took my respect to a whole new level.

I am slightly annoyed by the claim that teachers jobs are too hard though

Not too hard – if it was we’d all have left.
But it is bloody hard!
That is not denigrating other hard jobs though…we don’t see it as a competition.

But to all teachers, it’s a tough job and getting tougher with the lack of respect from pupils and parents alike and so – thanks for all you do, or did.

This^^^

but there is job security, job satisfaction, reasonable pay and of course more holidays than anyone else

^^^^ ha ha ha ha ha ha
Well done on hitting the Teaching stereotype bullseye.

Going back 54 years & there was only one teacher in our school who did any good cos he used to organise ‘outward bound’ courses in the Lakes for us.
The rest were mainly crap. The maths teacher was particularly bad, he he never taught, just told. Woodwork teacher was ok, the rest were unmemorable.

That Ian Wright clip properly got to me.

I didn’t have any particularly inspiring teachers, but then I grew up white middle class and was reasonable academically, so didn’t need any real inspiration.

Wife works at a school and even as a TA she puts in more work than she should. Currently sat downstairs with COVID feeling crap but still doing work on the laptop. Teaching, even in primary, takes that up to a whole other level. There’s no way I’d do it.

Edit: And now I’ve just watched that clip of Musharaf and set myself off again.

Bets on teachers being the next sector to refuse to go to work until they are given more money? 😉

(tongue in cheek before anyone goes off on one)

My wife; she up at 6 every morning and works until 11pm most nights trying to bring on a group of children who’s parents, by and large, see school as free babysitting. Children who, due to Covid, never received preschool, nursery or foundation teaching, some of which are still not potty trained, and are expected to perform to the standards of a couple of years ago.

She has well over 20 years in the profession, is unlikely to be able to retire until she’s 67+ and suffers numerous stress related conditions. She cries most days.

Alongside her day job as class teacher She was a special educational needs coordinator (SENCO) at a school that had 61% of its pupils with special educational needs. Because of the austerity measures the Conservative party introduced, all of the local support services that she could have accessed disappeared virtually overnight. As a result she received verbal abuse and threats from parents who couldn’t or wouldn’t understand that the help for their child simply does not any longer exist.

She spends her own money feeding, clothing and buying resources to help these kids. At home, we go through printers like shoes because the equipment at school is old, unreliable and has to meet the demands of the whole school.

Why or how she carries on teaching is a constant wonder to me. She is an absolute hero.

Bets on teachers being the next sector to refuse to go to work until they are given more money? 😉

(tongue in cheek before anyone goes off on one)

And that they do it for a block of days rather than stagger them every couple of days.
( might be able to sneak a cheap holiday in ) 😉

Also I think I am correct in saying that teachers aren’t paid all that holiday time.

Incorrect. The salary is usually year round.
Although with the lack of standard pay and conditions now emerging in England, this may yet become a thing.

Am happy to be persuaded otherwise if people have examples.

@supernova – go and volunteer in a school for a week. Please then come back to this thread.

She spends her own money feeding, clothing and buying resources to help these kids. At home, we go through printers like shoes because the equipment at school is old, unreliable and has to meet the demands of the whole school.

Why or how she carries on teaching is a constant wonder to me. She is an absolute hero.

this kind of thing that teachers do is so common its silly and doesnt get enough press. i couldnt be a teacher – waaaay to hard – emotionally and physically and practically. its amazing that anyone does it with the grief they all get.

I did my work experience at a school – had some rewarding moments (teaching a kid a maths problem that the teacher had struggled to get across), but saw enough to convince me that it definitely wasnt a career path I was going to choose

Both my parents were teachers, both still gets spotted and chatted to when we’re out locally by former inmates students. I think they found their careers rewarding and definitely had some wins and losses.

It’s not an easy job and contrary to popular belief the hours are not 9-3:30 5 days a week, the pay isn’t Stella and conditions are ‘variable’, I still remember my Dad telling us about the time he got threatend with a knife, while on bus duty, by a disgruntled dickhead’s older brother.

It’s definitely a vocation not just a job, which partly explains the current attrition rate.

Good teachers deserve support and decent pay, they are a vital national resource…

Incorrect. The salary is usually year round

I stand corrected, thank you. I understand support staff are paid for 39 weeks only.

Am happy to be persuaded otherwise if people have examples.

A few;

Being spat on, physically assaulted, sexually assaulted, verbally abused, and having to teach those same pupils that afternoon or the next day, with no consequences for the pupils

Having a child cling to you as they are scared to go home
Dealing with children who have not been fed, washed in days
Dealing with children who have been sexually abused
Dealing with children who have been physically abused
Using your own money to feed neglected children
Meeting a primary school kid at 10pm in Tesco who is not allowed in the house, or is hiding from an abuser
Dealing with screaming and abusive parents
Being followed home by pupils
Not getting your break or lunch as the school is too short staffed
Buy your own computer or laptop, printer, paper and ink to print at home as the school printer is broken (again), or has run out of paper/ink
Dealing which children who have no discipline from parents, bad behavior has no consequence, so they will just laugh in a teachers face (teacher cannot do anything, and their parents will do nothing or some actively reward bad behavior, eg excluded from school trip for assaulting another pupil, parent takes them on a better trip so they dont miss out…)

Dealing with children who arguably should not be in mainstream education, but due to policy/lack of funding for special units or LAs, non exclusion policies etc, are allowed to disrupt years of education for the rest of the class

Being pressured for results, having to evidence why pupils who are not in school 1/2 the time do not meet the expected educational stages.

All while trying to provide a rounded education for the whole class, meet the latest learning outcomes (and provide all paperwork to show you have done so). Make sure you do CPDE. Provide extra curricular activities. Go on class trips away (but dont get paid for it)

Buy resources with your own money

Spend weekends and evenings planning lessons to make them engaging and enjoyable for pupils. (and missing time you could spend with your own children)

I know people will say that is poor time management, but if you have been in school 8-5, dealing with work and issues that have to be dealt with, and still have to prepare lessons for tomorrow….

There are also some teachers who work 8:15-3:45, and just dont give a shit. Dont do anything you could be fired for, and its a reasonable job if you just dont care.

You just need to look at the staff retention rates, average was 5 years last time my wife checked. That is not good for staff experience.

The education system seems to survive on the good will of the staff, and enough of them genuinely care for their pupils/well being/education.

Obviously there are terrible teachers, and its not all negative for good teachers who enjoy seeing children progress, but its not just the easy part time job many people make out.

If its so easy/cushy, why do more people not do it?

I have no idea how anybody has the patience to be a teacher, but am incredibly grateful for those who do.

Incorrect. The salary is usually year round

I stand corrected, thank you. I understand support staff are paid for 39 weeks only.

Bit of a grey area.
Yes teachers are paid monthly, so a salary paid all year round.
But the length of holidays is taken into account and we are paid based on teaching 39 weeks a year, so nominally a pro rata rate.
BUT the teachers pay and conditions documentation doesn’t say that explicitly.

TBH, I’m relatively happy with my pay (and holiday provision), but…(info from IFS)

The government froze public sector pay in 2010, and rises for teachers were capped at 1 per cent from 2013 until 2018.

Pay rises of 3.5 per cent for newer teachers and 2 per cent for experienced staff were announced for 2018-19, while a 2.75 per cent across-the-board rise implemented in 2019-20.

Last year, the government announced a further 5.5 per cent rise for newer teachers and another 2.75 per cent increase for others.

All that means that in real terms teacher’s pay has fallen way behind inflation for the last 12 years. Even a pay rise of 6 or 7% this year would still mean we’re underpaid compared to 12+ years ago.

Bit of a grey area.
Yes teachers are paid monthly, so a salary paid all year round.
But the length of holidays is taken into account and we are paid based on teaching 39 weeks a year, so nominally a pro rata rate.
BUT the teachers pay and conditions documentation doesn’t say that explicitly.

I’m struggling with this a bit.

Any salaried job with more days holiday per year than the statutory requirement could claim to be pro-rata then? Extra leave is normally seen as a benefit in most industries.

Think of it as seasonal work, with no holidays allowed during the open season… it’s just a bloody long season.

Mrs Beaker is a year 5/6 primary teacher, I couldn’t do what she does. She is paid from 9:00 until 3:30 but gets into work every morning for 7:45 and gets home for around 5:30 most nights. She goes in early to prepare her lessons and print whatever is needed for the day. After school she has to mark the pupils books, which for a class 28 doing four lessons in a day is potentially over 100 books, there is a weekly staff meeting, emails from parents, special needs meetings, professional training courses and subject leader (Maths in her case) work where she is the SME who the other teachers come to improve their teaching.
She has just done a three day residential for the class, three days where she and three others are responsible for the kids 24-7 but only paid for the standard school day and no time in lieu.
She has a half day non teaching time to plan once a week, she is able to come home and most of the time that is a mental break that allows her to get through the rest of the week. Most evenings the laptop comes out for an hour, most weekends its comes out for several hours. Not because her time management is poor, far from it, all teaching has to be evidenced and that means planning for the next week, medium and long term planning. There is no other time to do it, if it isn’t done she’ll be picked up for it.
Her pay is performance related, she has objectives and targets. She isn’t paid over the holidays but her pay is pro-rata over 12 months. I’ve not even mentioned dealing with some of the parents….

Think of it as seasonal work, with no holidays allowed during the open season… it’s just a bloody long season.

Are you having a laugh – what’s the average half term, 6 weeks? 😉