Junkyard in judgemental shocker!

The thrust of my argument was the systematic abuse of the benefits system by those test have never contributed to it. White, black, Asian, migrant or Cumbrian, systematic abuse should be stopped. The system is there to support those who’ve temporarily fallen on hard times, not to support a lifestyle to which someone has become accustomed.

My UKIP comment was directed toward the possibility of the high court being overruled by the ECHR…again, but by all means continue to judge…

If that was your thrust* you expressed it very poorly indeed…still thats obviously my fault and I hope you can forgive me.

* does not imply doubt

Shes an asylum seeker – fine, no problem

I’m pretty sure it said she’s a British citizen like what you is.

Because that is what lots of other people have to do? I know plenty of people with postgrad levels of education in their 30s who dont take home more than that. Quite often they have worked up and down the country, because they have to go where they can get a job.

+1

I know loads of people, with masters, doctorates etc who aren’t even academics leading that lifestyle. For what.

Do we know why she had to leave the Congo, is it safe for her to go back yet?
When you can buy a house in Wales for not much I don’t see why she couldn’t move there.

The lack of affordable housing in London will eventually start damaging businesses, you can’t replace everyone with robots.

You’re a straight white bloke, you don’t qualify for ‘free stuff’

Although what you do qualify for is better pay for the same level of education, less police harassment etc etc ad nauseum.

The thrust of my argument was the systematic abuse of the benefits system by those test have never contributed to it. White, black, Asian, migrant or Cumbrian, systematic abuse should be stopped. The system is there to support those who’ve temporarily fallen on hard times, not to support a lifestyle to which someone has become accustomed.

I’m rather more worried by systemic abuse carried out by the government, corporations and the upper classes, cheers.

Interesting one. I’m just about to relocate for work. I don’t want to and it means moving away from our friends and the wife’s job that she enjoys. £2k a month towards accommodation would mean that we don’t have to move. Never tried ” the system” before, how do I go about it?

The lack of affordable housing in London will eventually start damaging businesses, you can’t replace everyone with robots.

It will correct itself in the end, propping it up with benefits won’t help though, in fact encouraging people to leave London would be a good thing 🙂

Why not pay more taxes and give her a lifestyle too !

Its fine come here if you want to work. And yes you pay your Taxes the same has all the rest but.

If you want Healthcare- A place to live – Schooling for kids – and any other Benefits of this Beautiful Country then you first pay around £ 60.000 per One Adult and £ 25,000 per One child. would be around the correct sum of Monies. Plus Vet for skills and give a time limit of staying if your visiting.

Then you would have a better Police service-Healthcare service – Schools and Colleges Transport and Rail service. And a far better Country to live in. It works for Australia

“It will correct itself in the end, propping it up with benefits won’t help though, in fact encouraging people to leave London would be a good thing”

I’d never thought of that and totally agree.The south east appears to be full.

Wasteful use of our collective money just breeds resentment £2000 seems a bit much to me, you can get a very nice family home for c1k in most towns probably less in most.

I’m not sure why we have such a problem setting and managing reasonable practical levels but hope we can do it before the loons use it to get too bigger voice.

Excuse my ignorance..she’s had her kids fostered.Have they all stayed local to their school and friends?
If she gets a house can she just ask for her kids back, surely she only needs a bedsit if on her own?

Given that we have no actual facts to go on just an agenda article in the express my guess is she wants to stay in the area to keep her kids in the school and maintain their friends she probably wants to keep her own hard won social circle too. She will lose fait acompli if she moves so is couch surfing in the area and the kids are accommodated with foster parents in the area so she will be seeing them daily and can take them out of local authority accommodation at any time.

The case is a damming indictment of the poor state of social housing in London and a good argument for reintroducing rent control and fair rents.

wilburt +1

The hysterical headlines around this issue just feed the extremes on all sides.

Long term investment in social housing and the living wage are the long term solutions.

And managing peoples expectations of what they need to live, and where they may have to be to achieve it. People have been moving around for a better life since caveman days. The belief by some that you can stay close to your friends and family for ever, regardless, is a VERY recent development

systematic abuse of the benefits system

This is a lazy cliche.

Explain what is “systematic” please?

What was her rent paid before the cap came in? Jesus the taxpayer was paying more than 24k a year on her rent before?!

Wow. Amazed at the figures and incompetence of the people who let this happen in the first place.

Although the case in the papers is the exception rather than the norm, the reality is that even lower rents of £1500 a month still require the entire net tax contribution from a hundred or more average income families. For all of the rhetoric about the nasty tories punishing the poor the benefits bill will still be higher when they left office than it was when they took over, so the problem has still yet to be addressed.

Revoke her British citizenship & send her back to the Congo.

What would Yunki do?

I had knee a tkr in sept and waiting for other knee to be done,was made redundant on 18 dec.have not claimed benefits in 30 years. All i can say if you dont know how the system works you get screwed every way you turn. my mortgage is only £177 a month so applied for help to pay interest only and was awarded £7 pound a week. I dont want someone else to buy a house for me just some help for a few more months until i can get back to work. I honestly am not winging or crying about it but dont understand how they work out calculations

BTW everyone, it isn’t £2000 a month, it aggregates at £2166.67 a month.

even lower rents of £1500 a month still require the entire net tax contribution from a hundred or more average income families

The basis of this claim is that the average income tax payer [ actua;lly you claimed household so its generally more than one person ] pays less than £15 a month tax. That is clearly not true.

For all of the rhetoric about the nasty tories punishing the poor the benefits bill will still be higher when they left office than it was when they took over, so the problem has still yet to be addressed.

well they triple locked pensions which is by far and away the greatest part of the benefits budget [46%] and they have punished the poor but not the ones who vote nor the ones who are more likely to vote tory. FWIW 3 % on job seekers 14 % on Housing The winter fuel allowance is 2 % as well 😯 I am sure Lord Sugar depends on it.

The basis of this claim is that the average income tax payer [ actua;lly you claimed household so its generally more than one person ] pays less than £15 a month tax. That is clearly not true.

He said net tax contribution

Only fourth and fifth quintile households are net contributors (tax paid vs total benefits received) so if anything his argument is an underestimate

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1760/over_half_of_uk_households_are_net_beneficiaries_of_the_state

I am unsure if that is what they really meant or not but I am happy to be corrected by the OP.
I assume they will take the opportunity to agree with you though

Interesting report that
Ta

Fallsoffalot I once tried claiming unemployment benefits they said I didn’t qualify as I hadnt paid enough N.I. I imagine that was someway of manipulating unemployment benefit. I gave up trying as apparently it’d take weeks plus constant repeated letters for clarification on minor points. I starved instead whilst looking night and day for work. Got to love how some people can utterly play the game and we aren’t allowed to critise in case we are seen as ‘daily mail’.

I remember stood in there saying ‘do you really think I want to be in here’?

If you could not claim because of your NI it was because you had a household income or savings that was above the threshold.
You always completed a form [ now on line] and then attended a first appointment to go through the questions/application process.
I have no idea what the

constant repeated letters for clarification on minor points.

means
Either you were lied to or you are lying.

Hora – The Mrs had a similar problem.

Luckily for us we weren’t desperate for the money.

The system is so complicated I could not believe and a lot of the staff seem incompetent.

She was only really looking for her stamp to be paid and in the end gave up. It was too stressful, depressing and incredibly time consuming.

However. the office seemed to be full of people who knew exactly what form to ask for to claim various entitlements.

I think it’s supposed to be complicated. They don’t actually want you to have the money. I remember being on the dole years ago; it was a full time job just maintaining the claim and filling in the reams of cryptic forms. God knows how the mentally-ill cope with it… my guess is; they don’t.

I got my Social Worker an CAB to fill the forms for me.
Even then I got bugger all. I’ve worked since I was 16 and the last job I had was a decent wage so I paid a bloody load of tax and NI contributions.
At least they’re using it for the NHS. Oh wait……….. No they’re not.

God knows how the mentally-ill cope with it… my guess is; they don’t.

Good Radio 4 doc on this a week or two ago. Here it is…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04yk7h6

I don’t think anyone here is saying that lady should have a big house in Westminster for free, but let’s not be complicit in the distraction and scapegoating that papers like the Express and Mail deal in.

Indeed chakaping and that was a good[ informative it was not good] show

If you had worked for years then your NI contributions means you get 6 months of non means tested benefit
here read the rules
https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/what-youll-get

No offence but factually inaccurate statements about what the system delivers are not helpful and we seem to be getting a lot of them on this page.

God knows how the mentally-ill cope with it… my guess is; they don’t.

Good guess.

IMHO she should move, if only so the money saved can home (x) additional people / families who might be living rough.

Such vast sums should never find their way into private landlords’ pockets – it merely distorts the entire housing market and forces prices up for everyone.

Mind you there’s no shortage of people on here with BTL properties so some of the handwringing seems a bit hypocritical.

No offence but factually inaccurate statements about what the system delivers are not helpful

JY – I witnessed the system first hand with the Mrs. It’s a nightmare.

The online form is incredibly difficult, I was shocked when she showed me.

The system is a nightmare and even making a straight forward claim for JSA is extremely difficult.

No one is disputing what the system should deliver, it’s what you have to do to get there and like any “system” if you are not familiar with it, it becomes more difficult.

Hora’s story above seems very familiar.

Junkyard try it

I dont disagree the system is complicated and unwieldy
i dont disagree it is hard to follow and comply with.
I dont disagree the system is unfair
I do disagree with some posters I worked hard all my life and when i tried to claim i could not because of x type accounts. IMHO they are right wing DM troll statements to suggest the only folk who can get benefit are “scroungers” and honest folk get shafted. Its part of a [right wing] trope and its largely bollocks

As for try Hora I deal with those on benefits on a daily basis and I dont need to try it and only one of us is trying it [ on] here.

Gobochul the statement was not aimed at you
FWIW those signing on JUST for NI contributions get the most grief as they are the most likely to sign off and give up as they are not even getting any money. Those who are getting money and who depend it on will put up with a lot a more. Some are trapped as their insurance, that pays the mortgage, depends on them signing on.

Generally speaking; these discussions about ‘the poor question’ keep popping up in various forms. As I see it, it’s only going to get worse as property prices/rents get sillier and more and more jobs are outsourced or automated. Any ideas for ‘the final solution’? Perhaps they could be made to live on floating garbage-islands in international waters? Although quite how the workshy scrotes would pay for their tickets is anyone’s guess…

</joke>

I do disagree with some posters I worked hard all my life and when i tried to claim i could not because of x type accounts. IMHO they are right wing DM troll statements to suggest the only folk who can get benefit are “scroungers” and honest folk get shafted. Its part of a [right wing] trope and its largely bollocks

I am not a DM reader.

However, it certainly felt that way. It was quite a shock.

It felt like they made things deliberately difficult, so that you just give up and go away. Which is what happened.

in your case they may well have done as you count as unemployed but are easily discouraged as you dont need the money – FWIW i know people who pay more to get to the office than the stamp value as its an insurance condition. its not hard to discourage folk like you. I AM NOT DEFENDING THIS merely explaining
It is certainly a design feature of the system that it requires you to jump through many hoops and they dont make it easy – how else do you want them to catch the benefit scroungers?

Again the comment was not made at you but someone claimed to have worked for years and not got JSA so I posted a link to show they could.

Horas story was probably as accurate as everything else he posts on here though it is theoretically possible to get no benefit if you have not worked much and you are a couple and /or have tons of savings.

I do not work for DwP to be clear and some of what I say is anecdotal some factual

I guess gobuchul’s Mrs was wrong too then junkyard.

Talking to you is akin to the process; painstaking with little reward.

I do not work for DwP

Pity. You would fit in very well.

I deal with those on benefits on a daily basis

Not quite the same is it? Unless you are helping them fill out their claims paperwork.

Perhaps they could be made to live on floating garbage-islands in international waters?

Some folk have already done this, must be the complete absence of any form of state benefit : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQZFy0K5v0I

ps I am not advocating this happens in the UK