Illegal trail building

At a bit of a lose for words with this one but I hope that whoever is responsible is caught

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6ppv1dw7wjo.amp

Bloody idiots. I posit that we are seeing more of this kind of behaviour from self entitled ****

should’ve claimed they were doing it on behalf of Just Stop Oil, would be applauded (here) then 🤔

Not defending it in any way but if its anything like the local trails round here it’ll be 14 year old lads building them who possibly had no idea those are badger setts (or didn’t know why that’s important).

Welcome to Britain, where badger culling is allowed, despite the complete lack of evidence, hunting with hounds continues despite being illegal, farmers continue to illegally trap and kill birds and other shit they don’t like….. landlords continue to burn and monoculture huge swathes of uplands so they can shoot shit at the end of their summer hols …

but it’s the stupid kids playing in the woods on bikes that get the ire and venom.

Awesome

This is local to me. We’ve just had some pretty decent trails built including a pretty nice jump zone, against some fairly well organised opposition. This kind of stupidity really doesn’t help.

Agree that there’s more issues around this, and a lot of it is kids mucking about outdoors which I am positive about.
More education needed. 😔

Can’t the badgers just build another possibly nicer hole? The like digging holes.

I’m with air vent on this. It’s kids, or young adults, who had no idea what they were damaging. Kids who just thought they were having an innocent good time building trails like their heroes.

lack of education about and early years access to the natural world is the problem here.

Cutting down or damaging 50 some trees can’t be excused as “kids mucking about”

“Welcome to Britain, where badger culling is allowed, despite the complete lack of evidence, hunting with hounds continues despite being illegal, farmers continue to illegally trap and kill birds and other shit they don’t like….. landlords continue to burn and monoculture huge swathes of uplands so they can shoot shit at the end of their summer hols …

but it’s the stupid kids playing in the woods on bikes that get the ire and venom”

Welcome to STW where on only one half of any discussion is actually acceptable and being nasty is a tradition. I actually agree with much of what is objected to above. Mostly because it is another persons preference. We live in a democracy. But of course the lefty enviro do gooder can’t accept that if they have their opinion other people are actually allowed  to have a conflicting one.

Welcome to STW where on only one half of any discussion is actually acceptable and being nasty is a tradition. I actually agree with much of what is objected to above. Mostly because it is another persons preference. We live in a democracy. But of course the lefty enviro do gooder can’t accept that if they have their opinion other people are actually allowed  to have a conflicting one.

Ouch… someone’s a bit touchy this morning.

Welcome to Britain, where badger culling is allowed, despite the complete lack of evidence, hunting with hounds continues despite being illegal, farmers continue to illegally trap and kill birds and other shit they don’t like….. landlords continue to burn and monoculture huge swathes of uplands so they can shoot shit at the end of their summer hols

Not going to argue with that,  but cutting down trees to make a bunch of jumps in an area where there are already trails is dumb as ****. It only risks losing access

I’m with air vent on this. It’s kids, or young adults, who had no idea what they were damaging. Kids who just thought they were having an innocent good time building trails like their heroes.

lack of education about and early years access to the natural world is the problem here.

Alternatively in the light of @onewheelgood post. Opponents of the sanctioned trails have conspired to wreak environmental havoc and blame “the kids” to get the sanctioned trails removed.

EDIT Before anyone says anything about it being far-fetched and self harming I would point them at an event in 2016.

And the level of debate on here continues to decline, stw is a sad shadow of what it once was 😟

If you’ve destroyed 50 odd trees to make some trails – that’s not kids mucking about, that’s vandalism pure & simple. Destroying a sett in the process can be partially attributed to ignorance but add the trees to it? Nah, that’s trashing your environment. End of.

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Welcome to STW where on only one half of any discussion is actually acceptable and being nasty is a tradition. I actually agree with much of what is objected to above. Mostly because it is another persons preference. We live in a democracy. But of course the lefty enviro do gooder can’t accept that if they have their opinion other people are actually allowed to have a conflicting one.

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No I’m lost. Can some one help me?

Where was the suggestion that people couldn’t have an alternative opinion?

Is it left wing to suggest that there is no evidence for badger culling? I’ve no idea if the statement is true, but is it left wing?

What’s the relevance of “we live in a democracy?”

If some one wants to explain why draining upland areas for groose shooting is a good thing I’m all ears. Let’s debate the issues.

Going by the photos in the article, and the FB video, I wouldn’t really say they’ve destroyed 50 trees.

They’ve cut down a few smaller trees, cut branches off some, and cut into the bark of some. They’ve only destroyed the ones they’ve cut down. And even then, thinning out some of the smaller trees in that type of woodland will help the remaining trees.

It certainly looks like the work of kids, who likely had no idea it was a badger set, and probably even less that they’re protected.

However it feels that article was written to try and maximise negative exposure of trails in that area.

For those who aren’t aware of the local issues with those trails, there were some locals very against the new trails.

So when we say they’ve “destroyed the environment” we’re talking about managed woodland right? Where it’s quite likely, at some point, the owner was going to pay someone to go in and chop down some trees.

There is a rather confected almost Victorian idea of “nature” and “the environment” here in the UK. I’m certainly not saying we don’t need green spaces or woodlands, but let’s be honest the kids that put their energies into digging trails and yes a bit of tree branch chopping probably aren’t the ones to worry about.

As for the badger sett, well they’re probably just not aware that they’re protected (or even what it was), if their even aware of the plight of badgers here it’s more likely the debate about culling and TB. Not excusing them but that’s as much a failure of education and publicity as out of control destructive yoofs.

Let’s be honest the land owner probably doesn’t give two shits about the Badgers, the tree damage is perhaps a bit of lost revenue a decade or two from now, their biggest concern is possibly being sued when someone tumbles into a tree and injured themselves.

The sensible approach is form a club, get BC affiliated and insured, approach the land owner, agree some plans… By which time half your would be diggers have moved on to other things. It can work, but there is something to be said for a handful of mates digging some cheeky trails in their local woods one summer, which will mostly be gone and forgotten a couple of years later…

I suppose its important to remember a couple of things when judging, or becoming enraged with this type of story/behaviour.

The media rarely report these things properly. “cutting down or damaging trees” could be a few branches snapped and maybe 1 tree or 2 removed. Not sensible, but theyre kids! Educate them, dont vilify them.

Most kids dont have a huge access to spaces outside they can use, or nearby trails that are sanitised to protect more novice riders from injury. Protecting people from injury could also be seen as bad thing, when we need to look after ourselves in the end.

Those kids wouldnt understand the significance of a Badger set, and may not even know they were digging out the entrance one. And, as said above, fine for them to shot/poisened/culled when a the government or a land-owner approves, but outrage when some kids dig out a hole.

Good job it’s all ok to do this is how I’m reading the general opinion on here?

Given there are locals has anyone actually spoken to these kids?

TBF I think we’ve all just assumed it’s “Local Kids” I suppose it could be tubby IT managers who just couldn’t face another 5 hour round trip to a sanctioned trail centre? Somewhat doubtful though…

I’ll be honest I sort of files these things under the same ‘Outrage’ category as that other thread from this week.

The middle-classes getting a bit uppity about something they like to sort of look at on occasions, but don’t generally make much use of, with the subtext being their dislike of the (presumed) culprits rather than any abiding desire for preservation of heritage/nature/the environment/wildlife. basically you’d better not upset Middle-England, or there will be letters written and grumpy local news articles for literally a couple of days… And no doubt one local loon dedicating a portion of his retirement to setting traps for children in the woods…

Despite now being more of a born again gravelist, I can’t shake that instinct to re-imagine every patch of woodland I encounter as a potential playground for bicycles. That comes from when I was an ‘orrible yoof no doubt, not all kids, or the adults they become share the same imaginations.

Here’s another one that doesn’t help cycling’s cause – https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgxq1dl5xz8o

‘The middle-classes getting a bit uppity about something they like to sort of look at on occasions, but don’t generally make much use of, with the subtext being their dislike of the (presumed) culprits rather than any abiding desire for preservation of heritage/nature/the environment/wildlife’ That’s a big assumption to make , that in reality noone gives a f##k about the badgers , conservation, nature, and it’s really all about looking down on plebs?

Here’s another one that doesn’t help cycling’s cause – https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgxq1dl5xz8o

Cycling’s cause? This will be local kids scraping jumps out of the soil – actually talking to them, giving them a bit of education, would be more effective than whinging to the BBC, and that would apply even if they were adults. They probably consider themselves as much of a cyclist as I’m a deep sea diver!

Also, what’s that second picture supposed to be – it’s not a jump?

I love little nature reserves like these, but there are so many of them. (We may have a preponderance around here because of the amount of ex-industrial land that’s been left to return to scrub.) There’s one locally – Red Flag Fen – which I’m on a mission to find because the suggested access point doesn’t exist. I’ve tried accessing the area from every direction but there’s no way in, other than by wading across canals and through marshland. Maybe I’ll find the entrance at the back of a wardrobe. 😀

If some one wants to explain why draining upland areas for groose shooting is a good thing I’m all ears. Let’s debate the issues.

You do know that the majority of drainage of upland areas happened in the 60s and 70s to enable land to be used for grazing sheep, don’t you? “Groose” moor and other upland land owners generally spend a lot of time and money blocking drains to prevent excessive runoff and erosion.

upland land owners generally spend a lot of time and money blocking drains to prevent excessive runoff and erosion.

That’s very altruistic of them. If only we could think of a natural way to stop that erosion and run-off on those bare hilltops?

“Here’s another one that doesn’t help cycling’s cause – https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgxq1dl5xz8o”

If that winds anyone up, they’d have a stroke if they saw the little playground ‘scraped in’ at one of our local nature reserves/abandoned quarries.

I live by the one in the OP up there in Leamington.

I went up and had a look the other day. It’s a mess for sure but I think the media has made it sound much more significant than it is.

I read the story, had an inkling exactly where it was. It’s a small area of woodland at the top of the hills behind and very close to the official mtb trails that were built relatively recently.

There are masses of very obvious hillocks and hollows and holes in that particular part from badgers. It’s very obvious.

Whether it’s obvious that you shouldn’t dig them up and generally be a Richard to a bunch of kids is less clear.

I expected a clear-felled area given the media report. 50 trees felled and damaged I think it said.

There are some trees down, though some of them could be natural as there are always trees down in there. Some of them could be anti cycling divs who are forever putting big branches etc across the couple of little bits of singletrack that have been there forever.

It looked a mess and they have carved words into some trees such as ‘SEND IT’ etc.

Stupid thing to do, but I guess it does happen now and again, official trails or not.
Just look at the amount of ‘off-piste’ in the surrounding areas of any trail centre.

Unfortunately, there was and is some very vocal and active opposition to the trails up there by some anti cycling self-interest groups and this is a golden ticket for them.

@kayak23

…and pretty much every trail centre started in places there were ‘illegal’ trails. Haldon, Swinley, CwmCarn.  The entire Surrey Hills has a single ‘official’ signposted trail (Summer Lightning) and that’s now ‘officially’ closed as theres no formal maintenance being done on it/logging/dangerous trees (depending on who you believe).  Telegraph Road and Park Life have been “permitted” for years and there are now a number of others which the ranger is good with and the Trail Pixies maintain.  All those were created ‘illegally’ though and later adopted.

You can’t build a trail through a forest without trimming branches from ‘dozens of trees’ and probably felling a few though theres a massive difference between cutting down an old native tree or protected Yew and cutting down holly or silver birch which grow fast and crowd out other species anyway.

The woods are full of ‘dead’ badger setts than haven’t been used for years – they’re just holes in the ground and piles of spoil. While there was a very live sett Mr Badger created in a jump on a existing busy trail on the edge of Holmebury.  And of course after years of trails being blocked, signs and complaints of damage and erosion one day you ride through and logging had utterly trashed the place. Recently including the trail in Holmebury that had that live badger sett.