If it aint it'll do till the mess gets here.

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  • If it aint it'll do till the mess gets here.
  • steventolley
    Member

    Throwaway account for random venting/advice required.

    This is going to be a mess… I live outside the UK. Moved a few years back, for a very good job offer. I was married when I moved, the marriage did not survive the move for very long. That was a relief in many ways – we had been miserable for years.

    While being single, I accidentally met someone online. She lived literally on the opposite side of the world. But we established a very good connection, started talking, moved to videocalls, gradually decided we needed to meet up and did. It was excellent. Very exciting. Quickly decided we needed a plan to be together. I was going to move to be with her as it seemed easier. But she got cold feet about that, admitted she hated where she lived and said she wanted to move here. She arrived 3 months ago, after we’d known one another and had been meeting up as often as we could for about a year.

    It was a mess. Chiefly because her kid couldn’t come. Legal problems meant the kid ended up staying with the ex, and she came here anyway. That was pretty devastating. She arrived here depressed, drunk and furious. Over the past three months it’s got worse. She goes to her college classes, but otherwise barely gets out of the house. She drinks heavily, has taken up smoking. She often sleeps much of the day and sits up by herself at night. She is confused about the custody proceedings over her kid and is convinced her lawyer has betrayed her (IAAL – he hasn’t, although he’s not very good). She has become increasingly hostile and withdrawn. She repeatedly says her life is ruined and that she’s made a decision that she “finds it very hard to live with”. She talks a lot about dying and reckons she spends hours a week on the phone to a suicide prevention helpline (she is very contemptuous of them). This week she’s become convinced that I’m cheating on her (I’m not, although I have been caught out failing to mention a meeting with a female friend that I’d decided to cancel because I couldn’t face the aggro over it).

    Increasingly, I can’t help. She doesn’t want to talk, says I can’t possibly understand what she’s going through and/or that she doesn’t want to be a burden. She seems to think that it is better if we don’t talk about her problems, but of course talking about anything else seems pretty trivial. She doesn’t believe that I love her, and if she still loves me she’s very pointedly stopped showing it. She won’t go see a doctor as she doesn’t want to be put on antidepressants. She won’t get therapy or counselling as she says that that’s just “paying someone to be her friend”.

    I know it’s selfish, but I’m pretty close to the end of my rope. My marriage was no fun, but I’m not used to sharing my living space with someone who is so hostile and angry and drunk and withdrawn all the time. The constant distress and refusal to get any help is starting to grind me down.

    Of course, she’s given up a job and all of her stability to come here even if she was unhappy, and she doesn’t seem to have any savings (she may have been pretty close to bankruptcy, I’m realizing a bit too late). So trying to call it a day and send her back where she came from is a tough call. I’m just not sure she’d survive long. She’d struggle to get another job, she’d struggle for health-care and I’m doubtful she’s in any state to get her kid back or to look after the kid if she did. But she can’t really stay here. She’s on a student visa so she can’t work here and this is an expensive place to live. She doesn’t have much family, and I’ve watched her burn quite a few bridges with friends back home already.

    So I’m a bit stuck and everything looks rather bleak just at the moment.

    Guffawing at my bad decisions, advice and/or sympathy welcome. I’m not really sure what my obligations are here, and I sure-as-hell have no idea how to get someone this unwell and confrontational the psychiatric support she needs but won’t take.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    Holy shit. You have my deepest sympathies. It’s very difficult when somebody is unwilling to accept help and I wish I could help in some way. Looking back were there no signs before she moved that she wasn’t totally stable? She must have known the situation regarding her child before committing to the move.

    Jamie
    Member

    She arrived here depressed, drunk and furious.

    Never the best of starts.

    I’d start maneuvering towards her going home. Seems for the best.

    cranberry
    Member

    Read that back and ask “does she sound like a keeper?”

    I can’t imagine that any of the problems that you have mentioned have only cropped up in the last 3 months.

    Indeed “Quickly decided we needed a plan to be together. I was going to move to be with her as it seemed easier. But she got cold feet about that, admitted she hated where she lived and said she wanted to move here.” would suggest that she was after a way out, thinking as some expats do that the problem is the place there are in at the moment, rather than the problems being with themselves, and likely to follow them to wherever they might go to.

    Ultimately, she is making you miserable and everyone deserves a better life than that.

    TL;DR – Spanish Archer.

    cranberry
    Member

    Oh, and..

    Louise ?

    steventolley
    Member

    Looking back were there no signs before she moved that she wasn’t totally stable?

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing! I think probably the long-distance thing covered it up a bit. Losing your kid and moving to a new place are pretty big things though.

    She must have known the situation regarding her child before committing to the move.

    Unfortunately not. It’s too complicated to go into, but she thought the kid was going to be allowed to come until 2 days before she flew here. There hasn’t been a custody hearing, so it could still happen. Although I’m not sure how I’d feel about that now.

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    I suspect the quicker you can finish this and help her home to be near, or possibly back with her child pending the custody issue, the better for all concerned.

    Houns
    Member

    Huge upheaval and stress for her, leaving friends, family and kid behind.

    If you’re having doubts now, best end it before/if the kid ever comes over.

    As someone who suffers anxiety and depression it can be so hard to get help, you do lose friends (because you don’t feel worth it, you withdraw yourself from everything) and quite easy to get in to money problems if not working and spend to try and (wrongly) fill that hole

    hammyuk
    Member

    As shit as it seems and sounds – send her home.

    steventolley
    Member

    As someone who suffers anxiety and depression it can be so hard to get help

    Very aware of that. I first got quite firmly sent to a doctor by my employers. I wish there was someone who could just tell her it wasn’t a choice and she was going. 🙁

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    Blimey. Got no great advice to give other than try not to let the circumstances drag out in some hope you can fix this by passing of time. Previous relationship might remind you that some things are too hard to salvage if there’s only one side of the boat rowing in the right direction.

    Three_Fish
    Member

    Put all efforts into getting her safely back from whence she came. Make a connection with anyone at the other end who can help facilitate that.

    Given your location (if I’ve guessed correctly) it won’t be easy for her to get on if she’s like that, either in work or in social life, not to mention visa complications etc.

    For your own sake, it sounds a lot like you need to hoof her out, sadly.

    Edukator
    Member

    I’m not really sure what my obligations are here,

    Find out, I’m sorry that’s the only positive contribution I can come up with.

    steventolley
    Member

    Find out

    Legally that’s easy: I have none.

    Ethically I’m really not sure. We’re adults. She took a chance on moving for a relationship which could have left her considerably better off, and she now regrets it. I guess I ought to look after her financially for a while if I send her home…

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    I guess I ought to look after her financially for a while if I send her home…

    I’d say this was the correct thing to do. And it might be the easiest way to help get her to where she needs to be, and a small price to pay overall to end something which is miserable for both of you.

    scruff9252
    Member

    The only financial consideration you need to make is whether you buy the ticket home!

    I’d buy the ticket, pack her bags, drive to airport and drop her off. “terribly sorry it never worked out love – but you need to be near your kid”

    Then get the **** out of dodge as quick as possible!

    How much are tickets on planes leaving today?

    thecaptain
    Member

    Buy her a ticket home (assuming you can afford it). You have to recognise you aren’t, and cannot be, her saviour. She’s a car crash, you don’t have to jump in and share the ride.

    Premier Icon Esme
    Subscriber

    How about planning a visit “back home” for Christmas? With a one-way ticket, obviously . . .

    Mr Woppit
    Member

    While being single, I accidentally met someone online.

    Ah…

    Junkyard
    Member

    thecaptain wrote:

    Buy her a ticket home (assuming you can afford it). You have to recognise you aren’t, and cannot be, her saviour. She’s a car crash, you don’t have to jump in and share the ride.

    this but be ware you bought her the car and set her off in it and I also think I would feel some need to hep her as you do…how much is your choice but you do need to end this as this is the honeymoon period the two of you are in and i wont be getting any better IME

    That said what sort of person ;eaves their child?

    avdave2
    Member

    Tell you what, get your usual username to read Steven’s post and get them to post their thoughts on what he should do. Then get Steven to read that post and kick him up the arse till he follows that advice.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    How about planning a visit “back home” for Christmas? With a one-way ticket, obviously . . .

    From now on, you shall be known as “Ice-cold Esme”! 🙂

    Mind you, when I was a young ragamuffin I dumped my girlfriend in a Christmas Card. 😳

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    Must have been a big card. Or a small, two-dimensional girlfriend.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    You’ve already got a new name Steven, go all the way!

    Junkyard
    Member

    I dumped my girlfriend in a Christmas Card

    Mate* did it on Valentines day then said I bought you a card and gift so you might as well have it – he was surprised when she slapped him.

    * genuinely not me

    gobuchul
    Member

    Can you tell which Country she is from?

    Where do you live?

    Is there an age difference?

    I think you know what you have to do, send her back to where her child is and move on.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    TAKE her back home.

    Make some connections over there then set it up so you can travel back with her. She really should be with her child. Any custody issues are going to be simplified and this could well be the root cause of all her problems. It doesnt sound like life with you is going anywhere.

    steventolley
    Member

    That has been instructive. Thank you all. This is going to be a very tough conversation to have, but I think it does probably need to be had.

    globalti
    Member

    I’ve spent the last 35 years trogging around Africa and the Middle East and I’ve met quite a few women who made strong efforts to get into bed with me, the classic pattern being that they get pregnant and then I stand by them, take them home, marry them and they get the most prized passport on the face of the Earth; a British one. I got very intimate with a Palestinian woman once and she even came over and stayed but in the end I realised that the cultural differences between us were too great and I had to tell her it it was “no go”, which was terribly painful. She ended up going to Canada where she married and settled so I don’t feel too bad about it now.

    It sounds to me as if this woman was hoping for the same and now that it hasn’t happened she is consumed with anger and resentment. The advice others give above is right; you need to take her back to her own child and her own culture and not bow to blackmail. Hell hath no fury, etc.etc.

    PS: what about reducing it to a simple business proposition and giving her some money? That at least would mitigate her problems on arriving home.

    A friend has very painfully been through almost the exact same thing last year. (Australia/UK)

    The potential other half had managed to skip out on some fairly significant debts in Oz and got within a few weeks of getting hitched in the UK when the realisation hit that there were serious incompatibility issues once they were actually living together.

    I reckon the £1200 for a taxi and flight home and then the few hundred spent making sure the debts that had been run up were pointed in the right direct (some at my mate, some back to Oz) was money VERY well spent.

    They now have the house back to themselves (and their kids) and the Australian connection has now actually gone bankrupt (they went straight back to the house and mortgage they couldn’t afford to pay for before they left.)

    Spend the money, get her back with her kid/family. If she’s got family there, they won’t let her starve while she gets back on her feet. Unless she’s not capable of that, in which case, i doubt you want her round anyway.

    the classic pattern being that they get pregnant and then I stand by them

    Is this you?

    Jamie
    Member

    That has been instructive. Thank you all. This is going to be a very tough conversation to have, but I think it does probably need to be had.

    I excel in awkward conversations related to romance going sideways, so I’ll do it for you if you like?

    chewkw
    Member

    globalti – Member
    She ended up going to Canada where she married and settled so I don’t feel too bad about it now.

    She made the right decision tbh. Why so many come here I don’t know if it is for jobs and money, yes. For living absolutely Not because it’s a boiler. They are better off going to places with plenty of land. i.e. larger landmass. UK is running a tight ship which many don’t know except the touristic pictures of Big Ben. They are better off poor but in a familiar system then slightly better off in a tightly control system especially if they are not educated here.

    😯

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    All other things aside,

    You want to help. For whatever reason, she won’t accept your help. So keeping her around out of guilt is doing neither of you any favours. She stays, what next, is she magically going to get better?

    As mercenary as it sounds and as difficult as it might be, you need to cut ties. You’ll look back in six months’ time and wish you’d done it sooner, trust me. And who knows, it might be the kick up the arse she needs to sort herself out.

    user-removed
    Member

    I strongly suspect she’s feeling incredibly guilty for leaving her child behind to be with you. She’s probably well aware of how the world (other women, her family, her ex) judges a mum who abandons her child, even if said child is safe and (hopefully) well.

    If it *is* guilt manifesting itself as depression / lashing out / self destructive tendencies, then perhaps, as above, a trip back home might help. Or even a house move to be closer, despite the burnt bridges and ex partner.

    You obviously can’t go on like this – best of luck with the big convo.

    jekkyl
    Member

    Get rid, nobody needs that in their lives. She’s an adult, she can sort her own mess out. You’re a long time dead so need to make the most of the time you have on this earth.

    globalti
    Member

    Let us know what happens, eh?

    Get rid, nobody needs that in their lives. She’s an adult, she can sort her own mess out. You’re a long time dead so need to make the most of the time you have on this earth.

    This exactly. It’s obviously causing you grief.

    Edukator
    Member

    Making the most of your time on this earth means having a clear conscience to me at least. That means doing what your (in this case slightly guilty) conscience tells you OP. As there are no legal constraints to worry about I think your moral responsibilty is to put her back where she started before this (mis)adventure, or as near as possible. Be firm but fair.

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