I see the England "fans" are doing us proud again.

For the adults…Scottish supporters were horrible in the 70’s and early 80’s. They had a reboot of their behaviour and make a point of being fairly self policing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_UEFA_Cup_Final_riots

Footballs challenges do vary from place to place, but Scotland issue is the connection between so called religion and football in the West.

Bollocks.

It’s absolutely nothing to do with religion, it’s political in the main (although with some it’s just ignorant hatred, which can affect many supporters, think of Man united fans and their view of Liverpool fans for instance), and has been for years. None of the Rangers and Celtic fans I know give a flying toss about religion, never mind go near a church.

certainly nationalist politicians in Russia seem happy to stir up the bigotry

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/13/moscow-football-official-to-violent-fans-well-done-lads-keep-it-up?CMP=fb_gu

Some more pics from Europe 1. It would be nice if some of these people end up in court – edit to remove inaccurate bit.

Which knife wielding Russian, Edukator?

Last pic on that slideshow for me is:

ransos – Member

What about the rest of that post did you ignore? You know where I talk about the international side and suggest your supporters are all tarred with the same brush.

Oh, great.

Poor old Marseille.

Nobeer, that is why I said “so called religion”. It was a cack handed way of trying to express what you went on to say. I perhaps should have explained it better but my post was already long enough.

People bemoaning the tribalism of fitba, really don’t get it, and never will, even if I sit here and spend a year trying to explain it. It’s half the point.

Only half the point? I’d say it’s the other way round, the game of football is merely the incidental focus of the greater cause of regional tribalism, pride and loyalty. That’s why efforts by the likes of the premier league to expunge tribalism from the game and turn into a sanitised, commercial NFL-like entertainment experience have failed miserably. Although I admit Man U are not far off in achieving this soulless, commercialised nirvana that the money men dream about.

What about the rest of that post did you ignore? You know where I talk about the international side and suggest your supporters are all tarred with the same brush.

Ah, so when you said “Scottish supporters” you meant something else. My mistake.

The more in depth the investigations on the trouble in Marseille, the more the problems are pinpointed on this hard core group of Russians. As I alluded earlier, it was like watching a bunch of Cage Fighters let loose in a primary school. Savage stuff!

Clearly we have our moronic idiots, but with so many years of our police weeding them out and stopping them from travelling, you’re left with a few mouthy individuals who can’t take their drink. Some of the situations these groups found themselves in were truly terrifying.

However, you have to listen to the reports rather than glance at the headlines to understand that.

you’re left with a few mouthy individuals who can’t take their drink

I think the french police wont have too much trouble IDing them as they seem to have been filmed them quite a bit and will be working with the british police

the BBC report spoke of a couple of hundred english ‘willing participants’ from the english side throwing stuff back after the police CS gassed them

I get the feeling that there may be less cooperation from the Russian police (based on that russian ministers comments)and that they might be a bit smarter when it comes to disguising themselves

Just your typical stroll round the docks.

Ah, so when you said “Scottish supporters” you meant something else. My mistake.

Well as long as you are.

I was in Marseille for a couple of days back in 06 watching football, we couldn’t move for police and even had an army escort back to the airport so how a 150 strong mob can run unchallenged is beyond me.

Makes me chuckle when the news blame the locals for instigating most of the trouble, I’m pretty certain I didn’t hear any French in two days.

P.s. Marseille is a shit hole.

The plot. She thickens.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/13/far-right-activist-euro-2016-russian-fa-alexander-shprygin-nazi-salute

French police have been caught napping here. Anticipate massive overreaction.

bluearsedfly – Member
I was in Marseille for a couple of days back in 06 watching football, we couldn’t move for police and even had an army escort back to the airport so how a 150 strong mob can run unchallenged is beyond me.

according to a french colleague he reckons the french police were trying a softly softly approach, by just teargassing people as they didnt want to seem to heavy handed

their natural instinct wouldve just been to batter the crap out of any potential trouble makers

not having had very nice experience of french police myself im inclined to believe him

their natural instinct wouldve just been to batter the crap out of any potential trouble makers

Not a single Russian arrested around Vieux Port, not one. It would seem they wouldn’t know a trouble maker if one bit them in the @rse

I think russia nicely exemplifies how politicians using extreme right wing nationalism and xenophobia to generate populist support leads to very bad things

Not a single Russian arrested around Vieux Port, not one. It would seem they wouldn’t know a trouble maker if one bit them in the @rse

I get the impression that the proper english hooligans are all on travel bans, those arrested are just drunken idiots who decided to respond to teargas with bottles back at the french police

the russian ultras are more professinal than that

I get the impression that the proper english hooligans are all on travel bans, those arrested are just drunken idiots who decided to respond to teargas with bottles back at the french police

A guy I know, who has rather too much knowledge of this stuff, said the same thing today. Low-level dickheads was his assessment. His opinion was that the vast majority of ‘proper hooligans’ would be confined to barracks for the euros and that things with the England fans would cool down considerably if the alcohol embargo was imposed plus slightly less aggressive/more protective policing. His opinion was also that there would be serious disorder next season if a Russian club was drawn against an English club in the Champions League or Europa cup

You know, I sometimes think that there is a time and place for American style policing (trigger happy) and that video posted by bluearsedfly is it.

People who stamp on peoples heads deserve and I think should actually be shot on the ground of protecting the public.

I think that if you are caught in the act of doing that, at that moment you have pretty much forfeited your right to live. If I ever had to pull a trigger on someone doing that, there wouldn’t be a day that went by where I could not give a shit about doing it. Horrible, really really horrible.

@kimbers yes thats my view. Father of one Brit sentenced today was pretty hacked off as they’d been sat minding their own business and his son was arrested for reacting to the tear gas.

Just your typical stroll round the docks.

I think I would be mad at the world if I was walking round in my green stripey boxer shorts.

You know, I sometimes think that there is a time and place for American style policing (trigger happy) and that video posted by bluearsedfly is it.

People who stamp on peoples heads deserve and I think should actually be shot on the ground of protecting the public.

i wtched that video on youtube and the follow up video left me feeling cold and rather queezy.

why does football suffer these sick nutter types. it’s a game. no other sport fans are turned on by the idea of punching or stamping on foreigners heads.

i think the best the FA?/whoeverisinchargeoffootball could do would be to pull out of the tournament.

a guy at work today had the feeling that the russian nutters were far too organised and whether something more sinister was behind their efficiency. possibly somehting in it with regrds to tht article…

sad world.

P.s. Marseille is a shit hole.

It is yes. Worst place I’ve ever been to. And I’ve been to Sunderland. 🙂

In normal circumstances I’m not a fan of police brutality but 😆 they should issue them with heavy duty batons in recognition of fans extra thick skulls!

Call it the Cabbage Maker, rooting out the biggest ugliest ones (not the school boys with big mouths) that think they are dead tasty for a cross-border language experiment they will understand.

Can’t get my head round Russians using a salute synonymous with a regime that viewed them as sub human and murdered so many of them. There are 2000 UK banning orders and 20,000 “fans” were observed during the qualifiers in the UK. The Russian government probably gave theirs subsidised travel,judging by their government’s reaction to the fighting. Mind you; not a single Russian arrested for disorder. I am now in the unusual position of feeling sorry for the English…

Been a bit detatched from this all but from the coverage making it down here the blame is being squarly layed at the door of the Russians who were there to cause trouble.
Aslo came across thishttp://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fsf-statement-attacks-on-english-fans-in-marseille-euro2016

We’re not claiming that all England supporters are angels. While the big majority of us come and party in the real spirit of football, making new friends as we go, there are still a number among us who drink maybe more than is wise, or who sing songs that aren’t to everyone’s taste. But what we can say with confidence is that to the best of our knowledge, none of the many violent incidents that took place in Marseille during our time there were initiated by England fans.
We have witnessed groups coming together – sometimes Russian hooligans, sometimes Marseille ultras, sometimes simply gangs of local youths – with the deliberate aim of attacking England fans eating and drinking in and outside bars and restaurants or making our way to the game. Some of them have been tooled up, some of them have had their faces masked, but all of them have been intent on starting trouble and initiating violence.
The attacks have often been brutal, and in that context, we can hardly condemn those England fans who were left with little option but to defend themselves and in some cases their families. But of course those are often the images that end up on TV and are used out of context to demonise England fans. The media talk of “clashes” between fans, as if there were two groups determined to confront each other. That wasn’t what happened here.
– See more at: http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fsf-statement-attacks-on-english-fans-in-marseille-euro2016#sthash.lprzKGaU.dpuf

The bigger saction should be the removal of the 2018 WC from Russia if this continues.

So after starting this little chit chat my two penneth. It would seem from quite a bit of reading/watching that those pesky Russians came pretty well organised with one thing in mind, a good old ruck, that you tube link of the gopro footage seems to somewhat follow that as the last time I recall wearing mine it was to record some boring downhill section and not the fight after someone gets the last sausage rolls in the cafe.
That said the “english” just can’t help themselves, the majority as in the slightly above knuckle dragger version saw it coming and got the hell out of the way, the rufty tufty ever so slightly brain dead versions thought we’ll have some of this and got pwned.
As for the police they seem highly disorganised. I do wonder how our police would have controlled it if it was over here.

I do wonder how our police would have controlled it if it was over here

when you look back a couple of years ago with the looting and semi-riots in the UK I think the UK Police would have been even worse than the French on this.

It’s times like this I despair not of football, not of the English, but the world in general. It seems as time progresses the world deteriorates and the humans are less human than in the past.

why does football suffer these sick nutter types. it’s a game. no other sport fans are turned on by the idea of punching or stamping on foreigners heads.

i think the best the FA?/whoeverisinchargeoffootball could do would be to pull out of the tournament.

Can you define suffer? Do you mean why does football put up with it, or why is football the vehicle by which these nutters get to enact their activities.

Either way – I refer you to my post yesterday – if it wasn’t football; if football ceased to exist – they’d be congregating under another banner. It’s not “football’s” fault that the problem exists but it remains that it’s football’s problem in the eyes of many.

Why should the FA pull out and come home? The vast majority of fans are there for the fun and the games and the enjoyment of watching their team in a major tournament. Punishing the many for the crimes of the few is not an answer, particularly if the cause is being driven by other groups of “fans” (word used for convenience, not in the true sense)

The answer in general comes from self-policing – genuine fans need to make it clear they aren’t interested in this other side to watching football, and where possible clamp down on the excesses of the less sensible members of the entourage, but as per the article above, when you’re having a beer in the town square with your family and suddenly a load of Marseille Ultra’s or tooled up Russian Neo-Nazis turn up and start on you, I can clearly understand why fight or flight is the better option compared to negotiation or turning the other cheek. And if flight is not an option….

One other comment – and it’s not particularly a complaint at Wrightyson, I’m sure many felt the same initially or maybe still do – but the title itself is representative of the problem. Before any evidence was properly looked at, before anyone had understood the scenarios, the blame was at the door of ‘English fans’

Seems like an apology may be in order in due course – certainly to the innocent FANS caught up in some frankly horrendous situations.

there are still a number among us who drink maybe more than is wise, or who sing songs that aren’t to everyone’s taste.

Makes it sound like they were singing ‘American Pie’ on the karaoke while having a couple of sherries too many, rather than ‘German Bombers’, ‘No Surrender to the IRA’ and chanting ‘ISIS, Where are you?’ at French Police.

The sentiment of the letter is spot on – the Russians are the instigators and principal cause of the violence. But unless the FSF acknowledges that the behaviour of a minority of England fans at major championships remains pisspoor and more than just a bit of banter, then who will take the rest of that message at face value?

Why is it that the fans from the other home nations seem to be able to sit and have a beer without chanting ‘Sit Down if you Hate the French?’ and ‘**** off Europe, we’re all voting out’.

Do you think if the tournament was a year ago, or the Scottish referendum was a year later (and Scotland had actually bothered to qualify – whatiffery of the highest order I know 😉 ) they wouldn’t be chanting similar about devolution?

they wouldn’t be chanting similar about devolution?

I suppose, but I daresay the English would reply with something about long-term fiscal stability and oil revenue.

We can discuss if this is a football problem or a if football event are just an vehicle for this all we like. But one thing is for certain – it doesn’t paint a very good picture of men. I’m not seeing too many photos of women as instigators in any of this.