I hate meetings.

I feel your pain. We have a weekly MDM where a certain not too bright and over promoted nurse proceeds to dominate proceedings.

It results in no decisions being agreed or urgent matters resolved – and later meetings being arranged between the grown ups.

The nurse clearly thinks confidence is a marker of competence .. but nobody else in the meeting does.

Badly run, boring or directionless meetings are awful.

You need a new practice manager. One who knows how to organise a meeting.

Isn’t this in “manager 101” training.

As mentioned it’s an ego trip for the practice manager, and she can’t stand the fact that people might be slacking off.

My god, presenteeism is one thing in a lower level job but if I were you and I had managed to become a doctor and someone was suggesting that I couldn’t manage my own time and work effectively without oversight I would be raging!

Sounds like someone needs reminding that their job is to do all the crappy admin so the doctors can do the actual work. Good luck.

Another vote for “dry your eyes”. I’ve got 5 meetings today 🙁

I had a meeting yesterday with an SLT member (operative word). For the duration they were talking about jobs we’d finished weeks or months ago. In the end I flipped and asked why this couldn’t have been an email or, better still, they look at the reporting system that they had us start to use. Utter incompetence.

As mentioned it’s an ego trip for the practice manager, and she can’t stand the fact that people might be slacking off.

have you considered that this might in fact be a “you problem”, and either the partners also suffer the same difficulty or are just politely nodding at your gripes whilst thinking “shit the **** up, come to the meeting, do as you are told, if we wanted you to run the practice we’d have made you practice manager or offered you a partnership”…

I’ve obviously not been to the meeting, but I’d be surprised if a GP practice could function effectively without communication (two way) and dissemination of information (top down) as well as reviewing “metrics”.  I imagine Doctors also have very big egos (almost every one I’ve met has) and I have some sympathy for the practice manager who has to try and actually get them to do what they need doing rather than the doctors have decided is important.

Now, imagine I was one of your patients, let’s say im a 16 yr old with type 1 diabetes – and I “have to attend” a clinic with my consultant every few months.  And I came to you and said:

“It’s awful.

An ego trip for the consultant.

It’s boring and pointless. I get frustrated and so am not my best self when the bits that I do care about come up on the agenda.

Everyone else seems to manage to zone out. I find that impossible without making it obvious by fiddling on my phone.

My parents hate it too, but they’re too chicken to do anything about it.”

what would you do then?

hourly rate of participants * no. of hours per meeting * no. of meeting per year.

Take this number to your boss and let them do the rest.

Feel ya. One thing I’ve realised is the civilian/corporate world is full of professional meeting attenders who mistake activity for action.

Career laughs all over the place.

I have many meetings a week. They are all shit. Happy days.

@kramer

i feel for you, especially as a salaried I guess you ahve less of a voice.

I’m a partner, and make it patently clear at all meetings that I really dislike meetings (ones I run, or MDTs etc) and feel they offer little advantage other than ‘box ticking’.

I’ll highlight to all particiants that once all agenda points are covered, we’re DONE. I don’t care if it’s scheduled for an hour and we’re done in 10 minutes. The meeting is for the agenda, not for the time.

Also, a popular phrase I use is “this isn’t for this meeting”. It’s a meeting, not a general discussion.

Honestly, most of our work and planning gets done in informal catch ups and chats!

Also – I now insist that all MDTs etc are face to face! It really makes the other parties (community groups etc) who LOVE making meetings deeply think about whether we do actually need one, if they have to drive 10 minutes to my surgery!

Does it make me popular – possibly not. Do we now have successful meetings – generally, yes!

DrP

Isn’t this in “manager 101” training.

I suspect there are a lot of promoted up and extremely untrained managers out there.

We used to have this ‘weekly catch up’ nonsense on a Monday afternoon at a company I used to work for. It lasted all afternoon yet only about 5 minutes of it would be relevant to me. I hated it! I think everyone did apart from the department manager who instigated it. It was completely pointless and just prevented us spending the afternoon actually getting stuff done.

So I started taking my sketchbook in with me and while making it look like I was taking notes,  I’d pick one of my colleagues and draw a caricature of them during the meeting, then I’d give it them after we left. It was done affection rather than taking the piss and I’m a pretty handy illustrator, so they were always well received

Everyone knew I was doing this apart from my boss, so it then became a guessing game as to who I was going to sketch each week. This added in extra fun for me as I could then studiously look at someone, making them suitably nervous, while actually drawing someone else. Everyone else would be nudging each other and guessing at who I was drawing this week

Simple things to get you through… 😀

@e-machine “Parklife” (almost)!

monthly meeting

Monthly

Once a month

Suck it up mate

@poly

have you considered that this might in fact be a “you problem”, and either the partners also suffer the same difficulty or are just politely nodding at your gripes whilst thinking “shit the **** up, come to the meeting, do as you are told, if we wanted you to run the practice we’d have made you practice manager or offered you a partnership”…

I did have the opportunity to become a partner and chose not to.

And no, that’s not what’s going on, although as mentioned earlier on, I’m not my best self in these meetings. I know that the partners hate them, I also know that the partners are scared of the practice manager. I also know that the partners aren’t really engaged with leadership within the practice, which is one of the reasons I declined a partnership.

I’m I have to say, from the tone of your posts you seem to have a problem with doctors in general and me in particular.

As far as I’m aware, outside of forensic psychiatry and patients under section no patient “has to attend” any clinic at all.

I also hated “pointless meetings” (IT, retired now) I joined an organisation (my last perm role) and introduced a number of meetings and a process of managing them. Agenda’s minutes, action points, follow up procedures etc. All of these were absent when I joined, although staff spent plenty of time apparently “in meetings” Initially there was a lot of push back, particularly from staff who didn’t welcome being held to account or provide feedback on their projects or make any effort to work collaboratively.

Meetings and communication are key to any organisation but they have to be managed correctly.

suggest a walking meeting

Great idea

standing meetings.

Yes, introduced these. So many people are happy to settle in for the morning/afternoon.

@binners, the situation has many parallels. I may have to learn to draw.

@surfer I too have no problems with purposeful meetings. It’s the pointless ones that get me.

Honestly, most of our work and planning gets done in informal catch ups and chats!

AKA “meetings”

I’ll highlight to all particiants that once all agenda points are covered, we’re DONE. I don’t care if it’s scheduled for an hour and we’re done in 10 minutes. The meeting is for the agenda, not for the time.

AKA a well managed “meeting”

I also know that the partners aren’t really engaged with leadership within the practice

Forgive my ignorance but I assumed that the parters were leadership?

In any case it seems like you (the collective you at your practice, not just you personally) can either carry on as you are and keep hating the way it’s run, or engage with it and try and promote meaningful change whatever that looks like. Easier said than done, but at least one of those options has an outside chance of the place being run in a way which works for you.

Just seen a guy in the canteen wearing a t-shirt that says “I survived a meeting that should have been an email” and he is my hero.

@soundninjauk – that’s how it should be, but they’re not particularly engaged. If I’m honest they’ve mostly got varying degrees of burnout and learned helplessness.

If I’m honest they’ve mostly got varying degrees of burnout and learned helplessness.

That’s gonna be a challenge to shift without at least one of them who’s up for making some noise.

I often give people a time scale for the meeting – like 8 minutes

If it end up as 13 minutes I mention that and then say if we start on time next meeting we can do it in 8 minutes

Other peoples meeting can and do go on interminably

@soundninjauk indeed. I think my only option is to suck it up and then rant about it on here. 😉

TBF the practice manager is doing what the partners want, it’s a difficult job, with I imagine some big ego’s involved. It’s a multi million pound business with highly paid staff, surely it needs meetings. Maybe you are sitting through unnecessary stuff. The admin team could have a separate meeting to the GP’s, but with a GP or partner present, and visa versa. I find a ten minute morning huddle with the team over a cuppa works well.
KPI catch up
Any news
Any problems
Any resolutions to problems
So and so did really well.
Have a good day.
Problem with monthly is how do you progress things.

I think my only option is to suck it up and then rant about it on here. 😉

Well do please continue by all means!

Just escaped from my usual weds morning of meetings 9.30 to 12.30….  honestly one meeting a month?!  wow, if it is the only time everyone gets together has got to be useful surely….even if its just to go round the table and see if anyone has any important concerns or issues that others in the group need to know / may be able to help with!?

Surely you guys need to be discussing important stuff like finances as a collective and making some decisions?  Maybe as I’ve never worked in a smaller business I don’t get the idea that everything can be done by 121 conversations and nothing drastic goes wrong…and from audits that all needs documenting, who made the decision, when, where etc…. fintech / gov is quite regulated, surely so is the NHS?

Maybe, if its not clear from the agenda ask the practise manager what they want to achieve from the meeting?  what obligation is it fulfilling?  I’ve read a couple of topics from you know and it sounds like you want to go to war with this person…..that way won’t go well for either person, so its best you try to work it out rather than fester and post about it on stw….

I do hate meetings, however my last 3 ‘managers’ do not seem to ‘do’ emails or written communication, and with working remote, and them bascially knowing bugger all, the best way to manage them is via a collation of the willing in a meeting to try and outnumber their bollox with common sense and actual understanding.  On your own, as a reportee you just get overruled, ignored or misunderstood.

@DT78 the practice manager isn’t who I was ranting about in my other post.

And to be clear, I’m far from the only person who has a problem with the practice manager, in fact I don’t believe that there is anyone in the building who does not. The partners are aware of this.

Unless it’s a week-long meeting, just suck it up. You might even be able to make it somewhat useful by contributing helpfully. Once a month. Sheesh, kids today don’t know they are born.

You know what I hate more than meetings? Review meetings.

I’ve just had my half-year review, where we discussed my ‘performance against goals’ and how well I was doing against the ‘customer first behaviours’. I hate it, and it’s all so unnecessary. As a contractor you just told me what you wanted me to do, I did it, you paid me. So why, as a permie, do we need all this other nonsense…

I’m I have to say, from the tone of your posts you seem to have a problem with doctors in general and me in particular.

no I’ve no problem with doctors or you.  As far as I know we’ve never met and probably only interacted on a small handful of threads (but I don’t pay much attention to the names on threads – I frequently confuse Cougar and Convert in my head).  So I’m sorry you think I have an issue with doctors or you but i think sometimes some professions are quite bad at introspection and considering what the other party is trying to achieve. Having reached a height of “clinical” capability they may not actually be that good at dealing with people and particularly people they view as further down the pecking order.  The same may well be true in other high achiever professions.  They are used to being respected, revered etc and not used to being challenged – perhaps even your response to my challenge is a little indication of this.  Doctors are presumably good at listening to patients and diagnosing diseases but are they automatically good at listening to each other and identifying their own opportunities for improvement?  It certainly sounds like your partners are not – so how would you learn this through osmosis.

You know the characters involved – if the PM is really a problem and the partners won’t solve it then raise a grievance.  If they’re mildly irritating but the partners put up with it because they solve most of the managerial headaches for them then suck it up.  What I am saying is if this person has been there forever and none of the partners has ever tackled it, it’s either not as bad as you say or it’s a toxic environment you’d be better off out of.  Only you can work that out, as we only have a limited version through your eyes.  But if you are asking how to get the best out of the meeting there are people here who spend much of every day in meetings and will be able to provide advice on that.   You didn’t really answer my question on what you’d tell a patient who found their clinic as pointless…

As far as I’m aware, outside of forensic psychiatry and patients under section no patient “has to attend” any clinic at all.

and You are not compelled to attend the meeting you can leave / find a new job (good luck finding anything which requires fewer tedious meetings!).

but I was hoping you might suggest to your patient things like: talking to the consultant 1:1 about how they feel particularly around tone/language; going to the meeting with a SHORT list of points they want to discuss; asking in the meeting what the realistic objectives were by the time you meet again; identifying one positive thing that going to the meeting achieves – and focus on that benefit.   Ultimately though I assume if you really believed the consultant was the issue you’d feel that you needed to support the patient either to challenge the consultant OR to find an alternative clinic.   All of those concepts are transferable to your situation.

If you genuinely want help challenging waste of time meetings and not letting your worst self come out then I’m sure there are people here who will help if you give more details…

I have someone who works for me who sounds a little bit like you – he gets annoyed by meetings, gets annoyed if there are meetings that don’t include him so he is out of the loop, gets annoyed at other people focussing on the “wrong” issues.  He will lose the plot in a meeting and have a tantrum in a way where nobody is evening thinking about what he is saying but are all amazed about how he is saying it.  He could be at “partner” level but doesn’t want the hassle that goes with it.  We’ve had some quite frank discussions about his personality being the thing which holds him back, he sees every meeting as an opportunity for a personal victory – he has an inability to empathise with anyone else in the meeting and a total mental block on the possibility that other people are not as smart as he is and just need to apply themselves; perhaps you need to find a “mentor” to guide you.

Of course it might be, that you actually quite enjoy being the awkward **** in the meeting!   Certainly I’ve been to meetings where I was invited specifically to fulfill that role – to make sure everyone knew that they had a load of group think and were wasting time congratulating themselves whilst there was chaos outside.

@poly, thanks for that well considered reply.

Gosh, I thought this was only about meetings. Meeting my mates down the pub on Saturday – does that count?

Is it just a “monthly meeting” OP or does it have a specific Title or Topic? Is there an agenda and/or actions list?

Personally I tend not to prioritise meetings where the purpose is not clear and/or an agenda is presented ahead.

It’s good to be clear what the whole point of a meeting is, whether I have any role in it and if there are any actions that need to be reported on/accounted for. Actions without a (realistic) timeframe attached aren’t really actions, you’re within your rights to refuse attendance where your role can be addressed in writing or by sending a delegate.

Having read through this thread, I give thanks to whatever deity might be listening for the fact that I never found myself doing a job where I might have been considered for any sort of management or supervisor rôle!
It’s not a job I would be comfortable doing, and having to deal with personnel issues just isn’t something I’d be competent doing.
Being given a specific job to do and being left alone to do it is what I’m good at, or was good at; I’m retired now so never have to think about such things ever again.

From your posts it sounds like a dysfunctional workplace.