Hypocrit Daddy doesn't wear a helmet.

You don’t consider how people will jump on every word when you write the Op.

😀 and you have been here for around two years already!?!

The more people who think that wearing a helmet when cycling = the norm, the better.

Agree to disagree. Very sad day when that becomes accepted wisdom (sic)

The more police/magistrates/insurance companies who think that wearing a helmet when cycling = the norm, the more likely it is that we will be lectured/let down in court/not get compensation

And it all starts with people thinking like the OP

but surely pisspots are not particularly uncool? A fair proportion of kids seem to wear them?

Mine all wear them. Few stickers or a design with blood and skulls and stuff, they love em. It’s never even been a point of debate really.

Because they don’t get themselves into an internet froth about insufficient venting they also wear them on scooters, skateboards etc. where the chances of ‘smashing out your brainbox’ as one eloquently described it are a bit higher.

Daddy’s so tired and skint he doesn’t care if he lives or dies

Brilliant.
My kids are like the helmet police so there’s no way any one of us would get away without wearing one. They even lecture random strangers.

The more police/magistrates/insurance companies who think that wearing a helmet when cycling = the norm, the more likely it is that we will be lectured/let down in court/not get compensation

And it all starts with people thinking like the OP

thats it im removing the reflectors and bell/wearing black then its somebody else’s fault not mine. 😐

(yes im trolling cos im bored at work)

If people decide to make their own choices about safety, how likely do you think they are to always make the correct one?

If we always wear one out of habit, then the worst thing that’ll happen vs the alternative is we get a hot head or a messed up hairdo.

If we decide the risk is low and we’re wrong, then the worst that can happen vs the alternative is a serious head injury.

They even lecture random strangers.

Which, if STW has taught me anything, is a valuable life skill. 😉

the op said it was hypocritical to have your family wear one and not wear one yourself as he has again pretty much on this page.

I am pro choice as well for helmet wearing and do not think they should be compulsory.
If it is then it should be for walking as well and scooters

My kids school insists kid cyclists wear helmets and they check bikes* – you can do what you like if you come on a scooter though.

* I use the word check in the loosest possible sense of the word. they checked the brakes worked basically. This year I just refused to sign unless they asked for MOT certs of all cars and insurance etc and gave some stats showing that more children died in cars and walking than on bikes so they were targeting the wrong group- they were ok [ ish] about this.

What helmet do you wear for your driving, molgrips?

As a child my dad taught me to always wear a helmet, he didnt always wear one, as i got older he explained its not about always wearing ppe its about jusging when it is appropriate, I always wear a helmet a an adult and he does now as well. but we have been know to take them off on fire track or canal side etc. The point is teaching kids about appropriate judgment is importand and prepares them to know what the right thing is later in life. As a child i was incapable of making this judgement as an adult i hope that i am not.

what two ton metal box with a seatbelt and air bags do you use encapsulate yourself in when cycling 😉

ok we are at that point now …backs away slowly

This is what I love about STW – I find myself in total agreement with THM and completely disagreeing with Junkyard, the complete opposite to the Scottish independence thread 😉

no it is about him making his kids wear one and his wife and not wearing one himself

You’ve been reading too much 50shades, in the real world grownups make their own decisions.

I’ll agree there is some hypocrisy there but as I said before there could be other reasons and even if he did decide not to wear a lid just to save his bouffant, in the grand scheme, I’m not sure it’s worth a 3+ page wailing and gnashing thread and the swearies.

But **** it, it’s a work day 🙂

Saw a good one yesterday. Dad with helmet on, two children without. Bit of a twist on this thread..

but you can burn him at the stake

If people decide to make their own choices about safety, how likely do you think they are to always make the correct one?

So who is better equipped to make these decisions for them, you .

Get a grip, live a little.

What helmet do you wear for your driving, molgrips?

mines a volkswagon.
im presuming your extrapolating that you must wear ppe everywhere. Im assuming you dont wear a seat belt or strap your kids in? 😆

Does the OP also think it’s hypocritical that adults drink, smoke, drive, work on oil rigs, have sex, own knives and guns etc but wouldn’t want their 5 y/o children to do the same?

Does the OP also think it’s hypocritical that adults drink, smoke, drive, work on oil rigs, have sex, own knives and guns etc but wouldn’t want their 5 y/o children to do the same?

tend not to do those things in front of my kids but each to there own 😉

damn drive, i missed he’d written drive 😳

V666ern 😀

bencooper – Member
This is what I love about STW – I find myself in total agreement with THM and completely disagreeing with Junkyard, the complete opposite to the Scottish independence thread

Love you too Ben! Enlightenment comes to all in time…… 😉

Enlightenment comes to all in time.

Even you, hopefully 😉

What helmet do you wear for your driving, molgrips?

As well as using a seatbelt I opted for front, side and rear side airbags instead of a helmet. I even changed my car to get them. These aren’t available on bikes so a helmet will have to do.

Lets be honest here all you pro-helmet-compulsion people…

Ignoring ‘sport’ cycling for a moment, ie: not competition or weekend gnar-bashing hooliganism ;-), when talking about general transport cycling or a weekend pootle with kids, is your worry:

A > falling off and bashing head

OR…

B > being knocked off and bashing head

I’d hazard a guess if you answer honestly it’s actually B, and that’s the madness of the entire situation, we’re in a situation where we have people arguing for compulsory protection of the people being hit! rather than trying to do something about the people doing the hitting.

It’s totally backwards! by all means wear one (I do most of the time*), but what you should be campaigning for is a change in the environment and behaviour not compulsory PPE for the victim.

Cycling is not dangerous**

* mostly as scuff/minor bump protection if I’m honest.
** recreational and transport cycling, sport stuff depends obviously…

Lets be honest here all you pro-helmet-compulsion people

Who?

we’re in a situation where we have people arguing for compulsory protection of the people being hit! rather than trying to do something about the people doing the hitting.

I’m arguing for both. You’ll never eliminate collisions, so both are required.

+1 amedias

I left that to Ben to comment mol re Scotland !!! 😉

I can assess the risk of a leisurely evening cycle along a cycle path well enough already, thanks. But at least jekkyl’ has gone from hypocrite and **** to the more measured question of setting an example. Still don’t agree though!!

Ton up, yay!

From the National Office of Numbers

‘Last year all the children in yeovil were killed by canal towpaths and several suffered severe mouth lacerations from cola cubes’

(I wear a dunce cap and so do/will my children when riding their bikes)

As well as using a seatbelt I opted for front, side and rear side airbags instead of a helmet. I even changed my car to get them.

So you have done a risk assessment and decided a helmet is not necessary in you car as the likelihood of head injury is very small. Its pretty simple to do the same assessment and reach the same conclusion for a leisurely pootle on your bike

Meanwhile in the Netherlands…

These debates makes me very sad.

I had a discussion on Facebook the other day after road.cc posted a story about protests to helmet compulsion in Australia.

Loads of fellow cyclists saying what a marvelous idea helmet compulsion for all was and how stupid the protestors were, completely blind to the fact that helmet compulsion in Australia and New Zealand directly preceded huge reductions in cycling numbers with no noticeable impact on injury rates. As a result compulsion did far more harm than good to overall public health.

I reckon helmets will be compulsory in the UK within a decade.
Probably with similar results. 🙁

Where did this idea come about that cycling is such a dangerous activity and you need to wear a helmet in order to be a responsible adult?

Likening helmet wearing to seatbelt wearing is not a valid argument because statistically wearing a seatbelt was shown to reduce fatalities where as wearing a helmet on a bike has a much weaker statistical link. Cycling just is not that dangerous activity.

I suspect Dad chooses not to wear a helmet as he decides it’s not necessary. I also suspect he doesn’t “make” his wife wear one as has been suggested above, but as an independent adult she chooses to wear one. And they both decide that the kids should wear one until they are more competent on their bikes and older enough to decide for themselves if they should wear one or not.

i love a good helmet thread.

not seen one for years tho

as wearing a helmet on a bike has a much weaker statistical link

For me, the jury’s still out. The evidence hasn’t convinced me but let’s not go over it again here.

older enough to decide for themselves if they should wear one or not.

When would that be?

So you have done a risk assessment and decided a helmet is not necessary in you car as the likelihood of head injury is very small. Its pretty simple to do the same assessment and reach the same conclusion for a leisurely pootle on your bike

Is it? Cos last time we did this we didn’t really reach a satisfactory conclusion.

Meanwhile in the Netherlands…

Just don’t. Not in the least bit helpful. We can all find pictures of happy cycling families with or without helmets. That shows nothing and just spams the thread tbh.

And I’m not arguing for compulsion btw.

I’m arguing for both. You’ll never eliminate collisions, so both are required.

But if you can reduce the collisions enough then the requirement for the other becomes negligible

But if you can reduce the collisions enough then the requirement for the other becomes negligible

I admire but do not share your optimism.

I ride on the road. There’s a risk that someone’ll take me out at some point. When my kids are older they’ll ride on the road too, and they face similar risks.

If we allow them to decide if it’s risky enough to wear a helmet, it’s guaranteed they won’t. Of course if they really want to not wear one, I can’t stop them, but if it becomes normal for them to wear one then hopefully they won’t think twice about grabbing the lid – just as I don’t.

There probbaly are disadvantages to compulsion, but what’s the disadvantage to habit forming?

Actually mol, it shows lots of people happily riding leisurely along cycle paths. Hard not to see that as being relevant or helpful.

Cycling can be dangerous for sure (I have a family member very sadly paralysed as a result of a MTB accident) but that does not mean that we automatically jump to the wrong conclusions. No one learns lessons from that.

‘Last year all the children in yeovil were killed by canal towpaths and several suffered severe mouth lacerations from cola cubes’

did the lacerations happen first, if so i smell a rat, actually not thats bridgewater…

Meanwhile in the Netherlands…

Photo 2 – chuck norris doesnt wear a helmet…?

I admire but do not share your optimism.

I ride on the road. There’s a risk that someone’ll take me out at some point. When my kids are older they’ll ride on the road too, and they face similar risks.

And I am sad for your cynicism and defeatism 🙁

I also ride on the road, and there is a risk I’ll get hit too, hence why I do wear one (even though I’m not sure it will help if I get hit that hard, but that’s a different discussion), But the difference is that when I have kids I hope that they will also be riding on the road but the risk will NOT be similar.

I take the pragmatic approach and I do wear a helmet, but I’m also very much of the opinion that we CAN get to a stage where cycling for transport and leisure is not seen as something you have to dress up as a storm trooper for and I am definitely anti-compulsion.

An interesting side point/discussion topic for you – there was a thread recently about automatic braking and self-driving cars, if we ever got to the point where humans were not in control of the vehicles and they had robust auto braking/collision detection, would you still wear a helmet Mol?

Just don’t. Not in the least bit helpful. We can all find pictures of happy cycling families with or without helmets. That shows nothing and just spams the thread tbh.

It’s not just happy families. The point is that the Netherlands has very high levels of cycling and low injury rates. It didn’t achieve that by making helmets compulsory or chastising anyone foolish enough to risk going without body armour on a walking speed pootle with kids.

And I’m not arguing for compulsion btw.

You’re not arguing for legal compulsion – but there is a growing social compulsion, as demonstrated by the OP, that anyone not wearing a helmet is dangerously irresponsible and will definitely die.
It’s really not helpful.

The point is that the Netherlands has very high levels of cycling and low injury rates

Yes, for a whole host of reasons probably, which may or may not apply here, and yes, it’s utopia I get it. But this isn’t the Netherlands and won’t be like any time soon. Sure, let’s work towards, it, but that’s a different debate.

You’re not arguing for legal compulsion – but there is a growing social compulsion

Yes.. but personally habituation isn’t the same as social compulsion. I want it to be a habit, so wearing one isn’t a problem any more than wearing trousers or shoes. I just don’t mind, cos I’m so used to it and I’m happy to. I don’t resent it but feel pressured into it by the disapproving stares of passers by.

Fascinating stuff. No doubt that if you have a direct impact on the head with a hard thing, whilst riding a bike, a helmet will usually help. The issue however is impacts where the helmet’s size/shape can increase the severity of the injury through the application of increased rotational force to the skull, which effectively “wrenches” the head to the side, and, in the words of a Doctor:

Dr Ashley Bloomfield wrote (Bloomfield, 2000): “The earliest murmurings that I heard against helmets …[were from] … a neurosurgeon whom I worked for in 1994. He claimed that cycle helmets were turning what would have been focal head injuries, perhaps with an associated skull fracture, into much more debilitating global head injuries. We had a couple of examples on the ward at the time”.

The issue seems to be that the scalp’s natural elasticity work very well at dissipating lateral forces that would cause dangerous rotation. A helmet can both magnify the forces involved, whilst at the same time reducing the ability of the skull/scalp interface to dissipate these forces.

However it is worth pointing out that my (admittedly limited) investigations into this show that the kind of accidents that would cause the potential level of rotational force to be high, usually involve large objects hitting a bike with enough momentum to flip/catapult the rider. In other words, in most cases you need a car, though enough momentum can be as little as 12mph.

Those who are interested might want to read this –

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1182.html#10155

I’d still rather wear a helmet than not and certainly insist on my kids doing so.

The good news is that there is a helmet out there which has been designed by a Doctor to help with this issue –

http://www.phillipshelmets.com/

I’m off to buy one just a soon as they/someone develops one for cyclists!

You’re not arguing for legal compulsion – but there is a growing social compulsion, as demonstrated by the OP, that anyone not wearing a helmet is dangerously irresponsible and will definitely die.

arguably social compulsion could lead to legal compulsion shirley?

edit: oh god you actually went and did it, brought up rotational injury in a helmet thread

You’re not arguing for legal compulsion – but there is a growing social compulsion, as demonstrated by the OP, that anyone not wearing a helmet is dangerously irresponsible and will definitely die.
It’s really not helpful.

Again gonna go back to ski-ing, which as a sport isnt inherintly dangerous if you stay to the runs, but the majority of riders now a days will hire a lid at the sma etime as ski’s. Its not legal, but it is sensible id argue.

realistically if ‘dad’ were to fall off on a cycle track he’d 90% of the time be fine, but that other 10% your lying there in distress in front of your kids all for the sake of putting your helmet on?

flame away