What options are available to those who are sick/disabled/unemployable (temporarily or otherwise) and are rightly concerned that social welfare and healthcare are getting worse/due to worsen?

If it is personally negligent/injurious/life-limiting/life-threatening to remain in the UK? People in such situations have suffered more than most in the last decade and as such now have either debt, no funds, or at best limited funds/interim welfare benefits. What are the options?

wrong forum *gah* mods? pretty please

Will be watching this thread with interest

Be living in Scotland when it secedes from the union.

My daughter’s just applied to Edinburgh uni on this basis.

A very good q Malvern Rider. Tories are deliberately ignoring those of us with long term Lyme disease. Last year’s new NICE guidelines meant progress in that new or suspected bites would have a protocol to follow. However, the NHS claim that antibiotics clears the infection yet there is no proof of this. Patients are then told “it’s in your head” or “you have health anxiety” etc.

It was too late for me to be treated by the NHS, antibiotics could potentially have done more damage. There is nothing the NHS will do for me, apart from being blocked from accessing any NHS consultants courtesy of psycho GP partner who undoubtedly views me as a drain on profits.

So, yeah, am sick of funding and managing my own healthcare whilst feeling too cr*p to hold down a job. If Scotland could offer me some healthcare for Lyme then I’d seriously consider moving.

Move to France, you’ll soon find out how lucky you are.

C_G: come on up anyway. We will do our best to make you feel welcome here and maybe a more open minded, understanding GP might just be the icing on the cake that you need.

Get a grip. Seriously.

You have no way of knowing how things will work out. This might be a good day, it might be bad. To suffer and worry about an outcome you do not know is mad.

There is an excellent series of philosophy podcasts called “Philosophize This”. Try listening to the early ones on Socrates and the Stoics. These guys lived through some bad shit, their thoughts on worrying about shit you can’t know or control is simple and profound.

I think that we (British citizens) have the right to live in the Republic of Ireland, no? That’s my Plan B when MrsJ gets told to “get back where you came from, we don’t want your sort here, paying for our schools and hospitals while never taking a penny”.

Get a grip. Seriously.

You have no way of knowing how things will work out. This might be a good day, it might be bad. To suffer and worry about an outcome you do not know is mad.

There is an excellent series of philosophy podcasts called “Philosophize This”. Try listening to the early ones on Socrates and the Stoics. These guys lived through some bad shit, their thoughts on worrying about shit you can’t know or control is simple and profound.

+1

And stop readingbt he STW Election thread which is full of negativity.  Its a nice brisk day outside, go for a walk/ride.

On the other hand, I’ve found I pass the first cut for fast track Canadian immigration. Including taking my wife and family.
🤗

For those of us who are able-bodied relocating is daunting enough. Unless you haven’t got one I imagine it would be better to stay here and have a support network.

We’re fortunate in that my wife is Danish and our girls have dual nationality so we do have an option even if it’s not as simple as just moving. My wife would actually rather move to Scotland, she was researching properties in the borders over lunch, even if Scotland doesn’t leave the union I think that I’d prefer that over Denmark.

What options

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the grass isn’t greener. There’s a good reason people who genuinely have little trek across the EU to enter the UK and its not the weather.

Calais’ “jungle” and Berlin’s homeless is what asylum in the EU looks like, you’d be no better off for being white and unable to work.

Emigrating within the EU, unless you find work (which you may not be able to do as a recent UK emigrant anymore) has never been an option – you had 6 months to find long term work before your right to remain became a matter of debate and depended on your liklihood of finding long term work or out you go.

And stop readingbt he STW Election thread which is full of negativity. Its a nice brisk day outside, go for a walk/ride.

So to summarise your advice – if something shit has happened, ignore it.

Your best bet re leaving the country to an EU state is to look for an un-filled job and stay there for whatever the time is – 5 years typically. There are jobs around, I have seen a few in IT.

I suspect we’ll be offered a route in due course, tbh, as I suggested on the EU thread.

So to summarise your advice – if something shit has happened, ignore it.

Yes, basically. Although in this case nothing shit has actually happened, unless you take a few logical leaps.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the grass isn’t greener. There’s a good reason people who genuinely have little trek across the EU to enter the UK and its not the weather.

Genuinely what is this good reason? It has always puzzled me. The only 2 explanations I’ve been given is they have support networks here already which is a bit Chicken / Egg or we have much laxer enforcement of laws around working and living without documentation – identity card system etc?

What tomd said – whats happened that suddenly is so disastrous that this morning the OP panicked and decided to risk moving to a whole new county and inherit their problems with the added risk of being of immigrant status, when you live in a perfectly good 1st world country of your birth (presumably).

I’ve been doing the same today as I did yesterday, nothing has changed around me.

Bookmarking for those podcasts. 😟

Bookmarking for a year and a day review 🤣

Life threatening seems a bit much.

DrJ
I think that we (British citizens) have the right to live in the Republic of Ireland, no?

No is correct. The way it works is: if you have an Irish parent you are considered an Irish citizen and can apply for an Irish passport. If you have an Irish grandparent you can apply for Irish citizenship and once granted an Irish passport.

If you are married to someone who either has or is entitled to an Irish passport the bad news is you’re not. To get one need to have been resident in the Republic for three years out of the last five (there are conditions on that), then go through the normal citizenship application then passport.

The question wasn’t about passports, it was about living there.

“Under Irish law, all British citizens – including Manx people and Channel Islanders, who are not entitled to take advantage of the European Union’s freedom of movement provisions – are exempt from immigration control and immune from deportation.[61] They are entitled to live in Ireland without any restrictions or conditions.[62] They have, with limited exceptions,[63] never been treated as foreigners under Irish law, having never been subject to the Aliens Act 1935 or to any orders made under that Act.[62] British citizens can thus move to Ireland to live, work or retire and unlike other EU citizens, they are not required to demonstrate having sufficient resources or have private health insurance in order to retire. This is due to the fact that British citizens are also entitled to use Irish public services on the same basis as Irish citizens in Ireland.[62]”

^^I did not know that.

onewheelgood

The question wasn’t about passports, it was about living there.

Good answer, I didn’t read the question properly.

cinnamon girl

A very good q Malvern Rider. Tories are deliberately ignoring those of us with long term Lyme disease. Last year’s new NICE guidelines meant progress in that new or suspected bites would have a protocol to follow. However, the NHS claim that antibiotics clears the infection yet there is no proof of this. Patients are then told “it’s in your head” or “you have health anxiety” etc.

It was too late for me to be treated by the NHS, antibiotics could potentially have done more damage. There is nothing the NHS will do for me, apart from being blocked from accessing any NHS consultants courtesy of psycho GP partner who undoubtedly views me as a drain on profits.

So, yeah, am sick of funding and managing my own healthcare whilst feeling too cr*p to hold down a job. If Scotland could offer me some healthcare for Lyme then I’d seriously consider moving

Am I wrong in thinking that your vote back in 2016 helped put the UK and op in this shitty position?

Am I wrong in thinking that your vote back in 2016 helped put the UK and op in this shitty position?

@alpin I don’t actually see it that way. If you want to point the finger, and don’t blame you either, then point it at the Tory voters for electing such a bunch of two bob shitehawks. And, importantly, point your finger at Labour, Lib Dems, Greens etc for not uniting and working together to tell Cameron and his thugs that a “yes” or “no” vote devoid of any detail is totally unacceptable and should be withdrawn. It was an insult to the electorate, treating them as stupid as only those from a particular genepool tend to do.

There was a window of opportunity yet apathy ruled. Welcome to the UK State where our rights will gradually be taken away from us as they’ve promised to do and things will only get worse.

Genuinely what is this good reason?

The most likely reason I was ever given was by an Eritrean who said something like “I’ve been through everywhere else [in Europe] and I wasn’t stopping there if I wanted to live like a human, the UK might not be the best but its the last place”

Do you really think Ireland is going to be a better place to live?

Shit healthcare system and private is expensive. The good jobs are in places where housing is incredibly expensive.

Very high rates of tax at a very early stage, local property tax that only pays for street lighting.

No effective public transport outside Dublin, dogshit cycling Infrastructure, bike to work is only once every 5 years and there is a chance you could bump into my mother in law FFS.

Oh, and cars are more expensive with a lower spec too.

Do you really think Ireland is going to be a better place to live?

Maybe not, but my problem is that MrsJ is a non-British EU citizen who does not have “settled status”, so the question is – where in the world can we live together?

As others have said, the grass isn’t always greener. We’ve just moved from the UK to Spain (Mrs is a Spanish national) primarily because of Brexit uncertainty and some days I do wonder if we made the right choice.

Some things are better here, for example public nurseries are good and free here in Madrid. Private nursery was going to cost us £1,200 a month!!! back home meaning we wouldn’t be able to save any money. However at the moment this is offset by the fact that I don’t have a job. There’s a demand for native English speakers in businesses but you also need fluent or close-to-fluent Spanish and at present I only know the basics. English teaching is looking like the only immediate route I’ll be able to go down, but its quite easy to make €24,000 pro rata pre-tax with the right teaching certificate. Problem is though, the work dries up over the summer so earnings can be unstable.

Houses here in the city cost a fortune. In the countryside you can pick up a big villa with land for next to nothing, however all the non-farming jobs are in the city.

Politically we have a far right party (Vox) sitting as the third largest party in parliament, so populism and Trump-ism are here too. Someone threw a live hang grenade at a children’s refugee centre a couple of weeks ago, so the same bull-sh*t is happening here.

We used to live in the Yorkshire Dales and I am originally from rural North Yorkshire so I do get homesick quite often and miss the sheep, muddy bike rides and stodgy food.

Just a few random thoughts.

Maybe not, but my problem is that MrsJ is a non-British EU citizen who does not have “settled status”, so the question is – where in the world can we live together?

The EU country of her birth, perhaps?
Too simplistic?

^^^^^^^
To add to this, an EU citizen’s spouse and dependants can live with them even if they are working in another EU country that is not their birth country. The spouse is therefore entitled to apply for a work permit within that country.

The EU country of her birth, perhaps?
Too simplistic?

Yes. I don’t have the right to live there unless some new arrangement replaces our EU rights.

^^^^^^^
To add to this, an EU citizen’s spouse and dependants can live with them even if they are working in another EU country that is not their birth country. The spouse is therefore entitled to apply for a work permit within that country.

Yes but we’re leaving the EU.

Drj, has your wife applied for settled or pre-settled status? She has plenty of time left to apply. It’s all explained here:

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families/what-settled-and-presettled-status-means

Welcome to the UK State where our rights will gradually be taken away from us as they’ve promised to do and things will only get worse.

If only we were a member of a large union that would protect our rights…. Oh yes, you voted to leave it

I can’t honestly see the EU countries welcoming “sick/disabled/unemployable” Brits in to live off their welfare and health systems post exit, can you? I can only envisage it if EU citzens were granted reciprocal rights in a UK/EU agreement and I view the likelihood of that as the unlikeliest of unlikely things.
As it is I can see us welcoming back our diaspora of leathery-skinned pensioners over the next few years to become an increasing burden on our own health and social care system as their health starts to fail. Hopefully the predominantly young and fit tax paying EU immigrants will have cleared off and left some space for them.

We early retired to France just before the referendum and now, because we pay income tax and have pension funds, we can access the health service here.

I am pretty sure that if you don’t have funds to support yourself, or have a job in the EU, then you won’t be allowed to stay, or access the health system. The French (and other countries I would think) don’t want someone from another country being a drain on their resources. Who can blame them!

There have been cases of people without the necessary funds to support themselves being deported. Something that the UK government have always had the right to do but AFAIK rarely did.

We now have a 5 year residency card which is being changed after Brexit. What the conditions of obtaining the new card will be, isn’t known yet but I would imagine if Boris plays rough with the EU, or cuts back on the existing rights of EU citizens in the UK, then France will do the same to us.

Despite the Brits here contributing a lot to their local economies, there was an attempt a few years back to add an additional tax on Brits living here. This was stopped by that nasty EU lot who do nothing for anyone but themselves…..

I hope we would be allowed to stay, having been here nearly four years now but our lives are now a lot less secure thanks to Thursday’s result. Anyone recently arrived, or about to settle in the EU, might well be on dodgy ground however.

Try this:
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=mitch%20benn%20moving%20to%20scotland&epa=SEARCH_BOX

Yeah, using the CTA freedom of movement to move to the ROI is probably the best way out.