How the hell do you deal with Jehovah’s

I never have time, but if cornered I steer the conversation onto the evil immorality of refusing medical treatment for children. Being polite unfortunately doesn’t mean people don’t have the capacity to do appallingly evil things in pursuit of their “faith”.

“No, thanks bye.”

It’s not difficult.

My gran (VERY Irish Catholic) had a brother who converted and became a Jehovah’s Witness. He was involved in a car accident and died, completely needlessly, rather than receive blood in what would have been a completely routine procedure.

I don’t understand that, did he refuse a blood transfusion or did his next of kin? Presumably his entire family didn’t convert?

Either way, yes, a totally stupid and unnecessary loss of life, but surely we have to respect the decisions other people make for themselves whether or not we agree with them. Forcing people to accept medical intervention isn’t generally seen as acceptable, especially if they understand the consequences.

A few ideas.

– teach the dog to growl menacingly (I note that could be tricky if you have a Spaniel) whe there’s someone at the door

– you got a motor bike ? Deck it out with panniers bearing ‘blood transfusion bike’ signage, and park it on the drive at the appropriate time.

Ozzy  Ozbbourne / Black Sabbath T shirts.

Tell them you’d have been dead at birth without 2x full blood transfusions – that one usually males them clamp up and slope off (and is true in my case).

My 1st Lab, years (decades) ago burst past me and a mate in th hiuse one Saturday morning, nose around 2 doors to open them, and ran full pelt out into the garden where he started growling from the bottom of his stomach. 1st time he’d ever done that. We’d never seen or heard him bark or growl before that.   Other end of the drive… 2 botherers! They didn’t complete the walk up the driveway.  The dog got extra biscuits thst morning. Good Boy !!!

I grew up in the middle of nowhere…

Similar here, but one of us (kids or adult) had to hang around the farm as we also sold milk, eggs and calor gas.

A couple of them turned up one day when I was on my own, and with nothing better to do, I invited them in for a chat. We got to the creation of the Earth, evolution, etc. and talked about fossils and plate tectonics. One of them was really interested and started asking questions. After about half an hour, the other one got up, made his excuses and left, dragging the first one with him.

These days, a polite, but firm ‘Not today, thank you’ is all they get.

There’s no need to be rude, angry or to waste anyone’s time.

They’re going door-to-door to discuss religion.  How is discussing religion with them “wasting their time” (aside from the obvious)?  It is literally why they’ve turned up.  If you happen to know the subject matter better than they do, well, that’s on them isn’t it.

Any major successful religion has self-perpetuation baked in.  It has to, otherwise it dies out.  With Catholicism you’ve got the ‘every sperm is sacred’ notion; don’t have a J Arthur, don’t use contraception and don’t put it up the botty, with wholly predictable consequences: “good Catholic families” with eight children.  Islam ostracises nonbelievers; so you could have a room full of Muslims, none of whom believe a word of it but none of whom dare voice that opinion in front of the others.  And with the JWs they reward evangelism, the greater the work expended the greater the kudos; it’s why they go door-to-door, it’s a lot of time and effort.  I  once had a hand-written note pushed through my letterbox, I thought “how daft, they could’ve just typed it, printed it, photocopied it,” but manually writing to every neighbour earns them more God Points.

Ultimately you’re not wasting their time, they’re wasting yours.  If you want to play silly buggers it’s fair game IMHO, it’s not like you went and knocked on their door.  Whilst it does have a certain appeal, I’m not sure as I could be bothered myself.  “No thanks” is sufficient.

Forcing people to accept medical intervention isn’t generally seen as acceptable, especially if they understand the consequences.

I expect no one with competence would be forced to have medical treatment. Doctors, and other HCPs, do have a duty of care that means they must act in the best interests of their patients. This can lead to treatment for some, who in other circumstances may have refused treatment. https://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g2043

Jehovah’s witnesses and other folks who turn up offering something? If I hear the door and am not in a call then it is usually a ‘hello. No thank you’ and done. Where’s the problem?

“Hello we’re Jehovah Witnesses”

“Hi, I’m Jehovah, what’s the chance of getting off with a suspended sentence?”

Yes, I know it makes no sense but I thought I was being amusing. In the ensuing nonplussed silence, I gently closed the door. Living where we are now, it’s not going to be worth their time trying to engage with about 5 rural properties.

I’d actually love it if they knocked on the farmers door up the lane. He’s about 80 and is essentially the ‘lost Worzel’ so it’d probably end up being a conversation in which neither participant had any idea what the other one was going on about.

you kind of slightly believe a bit still, don’t you?

No. I can’t prove it though. I can demonstrate that the earth is quite old, I can explain and show how marine fossils are formed and end up in rocks up mountains, but I can’t prove there isn’t a God. I’m agnostic. As for when I’m on my death bed, it’s more likely to be death bike or death skis and I’m more likely exclaim “oh putain” as my last words than get all religious all of a sudden. :)

You do not need to prove there is not a god – the burdon of proof is on those that claim there is one.

By knocking on your door they have been rude.  I feel very strongly about this because I was a shift worker and have been woken up by these rude folk.  You are rude to me by knocking on my door trying to induce me into your cult?  I have ever right to be rude back

These folk are cultists and unpleasant ones destroying lives

These days, a polite, but firm ‘Not today, thank you’ is all they get.

Not today? OK, we’ll see you tomorrow.

I don’t understand that, did he refuse a blood transfusion or did his next of kin?

I don’t understand the logic here either. The argument – as I understand it and I may be wrong – is that their belief is that it’s not god’s way, if god wanted him to live then he’d have saved him. Where this falls flat of course is that god gave us doctors, surgeons… If you were god, wouldn’t you hire a team to deal with all the day-to-day admin?

If they keep calling then you are on “the list”. You have to ask them to remove you from the list and not to call again. Ask me how I know this… It’s targeted calling.

No need to be rude, but “fetch my shotgun” is a nice retort. Until the armed police arrive!

I don’t understand that, did he refuse a blood transfusion or did his next of kin? Presumably his entire family didn’t convert?

He married a Jehovahs Witness (which is why he converted) who’s faith told her that it would be better to see her husband die, completely unnecessarily, than go against one of her/their stupid, inexplicable, medieval beliefs and let him receive blood

tjagain

Full Member
Why do you not want to be rude?  they start it by knocking on your door uninvited to try to convert you – that is very rude.

Just a simple “go away and don’t come back”  But I would be much ruder than that.

Because it’s a cult, the people knocking at your door are victims of it.

My nan somehow ended up getting converted, and while doing her door knocking rounds one day (after probably 20 years in the JW) she had a heart attack.  A kind member of the public called an ambulance and after performing emergency treatment, they had to give a blood transfusion.  My grandad was not a JW so I don’t know if they asked him, and he said “go ahead”, or what.  But anyway, the blood helped saved her life but as a result the church dis-owned/excommunicated her (whatever the term is), despite the fact she was unconscious at the time!

She was the nicest person you could have met.  Dirt poor, yet generous to a fault.  Had time for everyone and a wicked sense of humour. I’m rambling but the point is, not every JW that’s out knocking on doors is a ****.

“Sorry, but I don’t do your god, or anyone else’s. Thanks”

 I can’t prove there isn’t a God. I’m agnostic.

Russell’s Teapot.  You can’t prove that there isn’t Spider-Man, so do you entertain the notion that he might be real?  How do you feel about Father Christmas, do you consider yourself to be Santagnostic?

It is impossible to prove the non-existence of something.  That does not give ‘existence’ and ‘non-existence’ equal credence.

I asked lots of questions. I think it was the point when they agreed that they may as well pray to a tree, that I got on some sort of black list. We now see them going round our estate, but they never call here any more.

I don’t believe in any of it, but do find it interesting.

Panda

Off to pray for them, apparently a bit of a no no for them so they tend to scuttle off.

I’m a geologist and scientist so the philosophy of doubt stops me making statements I can’t prove. If people ask I say I’m agnostic

I tend to go with Bertrand Russell’s approach.

“Therefore, in regard to the Olympic gods, speaking to a purely philosophical audience, I would say that I am an Agnostic. But speaking popularly, I think that all of us would say in regard to those gods that we were Atheists”

As for when I’m on my death bed, it’s more likely to be death bike or death skis and I’m more likely exclaim “oh putain” as my last words than get all religious all of a sudden. :)

The curdy chips thing?

Simply tell them you’re an apostate. They won’t bother you again.

I think they must have evolved some kind of don’t evangelise on your own doorstep exchange scheme over the years

My brother lived about 10 doors down from a Kingdom Hall in Oxford. You used to see them coming out on their way to knock on doors but they never ever did it along their own street

I don’t think I’d be quick thinking enough to come up with something smarter than ‘no thanks’ if they knocked on my door.

What I do find pretty appalling is their standing outside hospitals, looking all nice and welcoming and well adjusted, when they are obviously trying to catch people at a low point in their lives.

Tell them about the piece of halibut you had for supper.

I used to work with a JW and he wasn’t allowed to like the song Let It Be.
This was due to mother Mary being referenced.
Being clever I was able to tell him that Paul was singing about his own mother.
This cleared him to being able to enjoy this lovely song.
Strange bunch.

It’s a human interaction, and your communication of <I do not wish to engage with you . End> can be a very simple and a respectful one. The person that deviates from that is interacting in neither a simple or respectful manner. Respectful: no need to be disrespectful of them.  Simple: by not being simple you are transmitting a confused message. All of this is my viewpoint.

As a few folk have said already: ‘Not interested, thanks, bye!’ works well. No rudeness or unpleasantness, no-one wastes their time.

Talking to them unless you genuinely want to feels a bit like the thing where people engage phone scammers in pointless conversation for some sort of weird moral victory, what is the point? Just close the front door / put the phone down and get on with your life.

The same way you deal with anyone trying to sell you something you don’t want.

‘No thanks.’

No time wasted on either side.

If they don’t try and convert people they don’t make it onto the goodlist and thats bad come the rapture  i would say  thats teetering ont he edge of bloody selfish, especially as they are pretty clear on the numbers and that they won’t all make it!

Is it selfish though? They’re trying to do what they think is right. Just like we live in a consumerist society and work for £ to buy stuff we often don’t need and create pollution and chaos along the way because we think that’s right or normal.

Like all these things there’s BS at the edges and ‘every movement has it’s lunatic fringe’ .. I just don’t see the need convince ourselves we’re smarter, funnier or cleverer than them or make their lives any harder. They have a right to do what they think is good, like we have a right to do what we think is good, emphasis on ‘good’.

That’s bollocks – they want you to be as brainwashed as them. It’s a recruitment drive, nothing less.

Our consumerist and hedonist society, much different? What’s more right, us or them? Does it just come down to minorities being wrong? Not saying you’re wrong, just trying to see it from the other side.

These days I’ve met a few more ex-JHs who have described just how horrible a cult it is from the inside and who have been really damaged by it.

I’ve heard this and I think that’s more reason to be brief but polite with them. There were some JHs here a while back and the adult stood at the side while a girl of about 12 said her bit nervously. What can you say? “Thanks for stopping to say that and caring for people”, or something like that. That girl has a hard enough life without me thinking I’m smarter and telling them they’re fools?

I know not to engage them in debate because whilst I know my beliefs are correct and the ones they’re trying to convince me of are wrong, they get to practice their bit over a thousand times a year and I don’t so they’d wipe the floor with me.

I just smile and say “I think you’ve got the wrong address”. They smile, give a polite goodbye and go next door.

Don’t think they were JWs but I had a knock at the door a few weeks ago. Thought it was the youngest coming back from playing out so my heart sank when I saw it was two religious types. Can’t remember how they introduced themselves but I very nicely interrupted them and explained my lack of time/care for anything even remotely religious and so I’m probably not worth wasting their time on. They thanked me, wished me a nice day, I wished them one back and they left. Didn’t even leave me any literature. Very pleasant.

I am also staunchly atheist with a long list of reasons why.A fair few of them based on evidence (and more than one book)

Isn’t that exactly what JW say apart from the atheist bit? Why is your version the right one?

Atheist too here but happy to respect other beliefs as long as they are not used to insight violence and hate

Strange bunch.

There’s a lot of it going about.

I used to work adjacent to a Mormon (he’d visit our site occasionally). He rocked up one day sporting a beard, I commented along the lines of how it suited him, he told me that he’d grown it out because god had appeared in a vision and told him to grow it. … Well, alright then.

pointless conversation for some sort of weird moral victory, what is the point?

They started it?

what is the point?

You have people here claiming they’re victims of a cult but are against entering into a conversation that might convince them of that.

I worked for the Mormans for a few weeks, the only one in the temp agency who would set foot in the place. It made me wonder what people were afraid of, themselves or the Mormans. Working on their computer systems I got quite an insight into how the business worked. As with any religion it was clear that there were many reasons for being a Morman and a belief in God wasn’t a big part of it. I think there’s a free mason on here, it struck me that it was a similar sort of exclusive mutual back scratching club but a bit more expensive – their turnover was impressive.

People love these sort of ritualistic institutions, religious based or otherwise.

I just smile and say “I think you’ve got the wrong address”. They smile, give a polite goodbye and go next door.

One of the (many) benefits of living in a largely Muslim neighbourhood is that the evangelists of any creed had worked out that their conversion rate from Islam was likely to be even more vanishingly low than normal.

They started it?

That is the argument of a five year old.

Is it selfish though? They’re trying to do what they think is right

I did say teetering… But yes. They are effectively trying to win one of 144000 places to rule with christ.

It is heehaw to do with saving souls and everything to do with getting themselves in a top spot.

That is the argument of a five year old.

Whereas your post really advanced the discussion.

A “pointless conversation for some sort of weird moral victory” is literally why they’re knocking on your door in the first place, it seems somewhat churlish to object to people responding in kind.

You do not need to prove there is not a god – the burdon of proof is on those that claim there is one.

Not sure that’s how faith works, tj.

Whereas your post really advanced the discussion.

Alright, fair enough.

Having a discussion with a Jehovah about how you don’t believe the stuff they believe is the doorstep equivalent of your bugbear about people posting in threads to basically express their lack of interest in the topic of the thread. People do it because that person at that moment couldn’t give into the urge to be a bit of a smartarse.

And no-one likes a smartarse.