It was pure luck, chance, whatever you want to call it. There was no market analysis or whatever. I very much doubt if we could afford to put a deposit down on our house now even though my salary has, through moving jobs, doubled in that time.

Unfortunately if the housing market continues as it has done home ownership will be something only a very small amount can afford!!

I don’t disagree and I’m amazed every year when prices keep rising at ridiculous rates. However, for anyone in my street buying has been way cheaper than renting, so much so that I suspect most couldn’t actually afford to buy their existing house at current prices.

Brooess it’s not gloating at people. Like or not you have done the same in the past callin the flip side people crazy for buying houses at the prices they are

It’s the incessant insinuation that the crash is coming everytime this is mentioned. EVERY time.

You said right at the start you had the deposit ready you got as far as looking at offering.

We were looking for houses together at the same time.im not gloating at as you say you can’t get a deposit . – as far as I’m concerned you might have millions in the bank and being very principals . I’m just pointing out you trot out the same scaremongering stuff every time.

Your need for a roof hasn’t changed.

The sooner the nation accepts that a house is a home and not an investment the sooner affordable housing has a chance of happening.

Unfortunately we need a profitable BTL – or people will be living with their parents until thy have deposits and we will lose labour mobility.

So while we have BTL affordable housing has little chance of happening

Unfortunately we need a profitable BTL

I’d disgree. We have profitable BTL at the moment, but the changes to tax law will probably reduce that significantly. Pushing the yeild on BTL ownership down compared to private ownership is a good thing if we want more people owning.

I think the biggest thing about BTL is the tax changes, introduced by the tories of all people, signify that landlords are now an easyish political target (few people shed a tear) – therefore I expect in future there will be more and more pokes at them until the sector shrinks significantly

What we need is a controlled B2L mortgage system which is tied to Rent Control. The mortgage rate continues at the level it was taken out at provided the same tenant is in residence. Should the tenant chose to leave, the rate will alter to the current level in readiness for a new tenant.

It works in Germany.

Unfortunately we need a profitable BTL

You need rentable accommodation in order to have a flexible workforce. Too much home ownership is a drag on labour mobility, which can negatively affect growth etc.

exactly footflaps We dont have a profitable B2L

we wont have houses to rent.

are you going to invest your cash in something not profitable ?

Go have a quick look at the fee’s plus 12 months of rent and see how much you need it to drop to come out even.

Despite concerns about the possible effect of Brexit on house prices I’m going ahead with a purchase anyway as it seems like a better option that pissing away money on rent. I sold my London place in May last year but the place I was buying was taken off the market so I had to rent somewhere at short notice – which will have cost me £25K by the time I’ve moved into the place I’m in the process of buying. So even if the house prices dip a bit I’m still likely to be better off buying rather than renting.

I think my concern (particularly as I have very little equity in my house) is that an inflation and therefore interest rate increase is quite possible as an effect of any economic disturbance, and Brexit will increase the likelihood of an economic disturbance.

Following on from that, if interest rates rise to something closer to historic norms, a number of people will be put in a position where their properties are not affordable, and prices will crash, and people will be left in negative equity. It will be relatively short term, but most cashflow problems are.

You need a good bit of inflation to erode your mortgage debt. That’s how most of the baby boomers made their equity based wealth.

You need rentable accommodation in order to have a flexible workforce. Too much home ownership is a drag on labour mobility, which can negatively affect growth etc.

only because the cost to move (buy/sell) is high. If you made that process cheap and painless (ie, bin off stamp duty, which is a perverse tax if ever I saw one – replace it with higher property taxes elsewhere if you want), renting would have relatively few advantages.

What we need is a controlled B2L mortgage system which is tied to Rent Control. The mortgage rate continues at the level it was taken out at provided the same tenant is in residence. Should the tenant chose to leave, the rate will alter to the current level in readiness for a new tenant.

It works in Germany.

it does, but rent controls generally are a bad idea – where they exist you often get property neglect/slumification because keeping the property ‘nice’ (which has a cost) gives no return. The German model is complex, with fixed pricing depending on the square footage, features installed and so on, and is focussed on longer rentals – I don’t know if you could implement that sort of thing here as it infers a cultural change as well as one in law.

You need a good bit of inflation to erode your mortgage debt. That’s how most of the baby boomers made their equity based wealth.

That’s kind of true, but you also need wages to rise at the same time as the inflation to finish that equation off. Those pay rises need to be in decent jobs too, not zero hours/gig economy employment which is far too prevalent these days.

I don’t know if you could implement that sort of thing here as it infers a cultural change as well as one in law.

A cultural change happened in the 80’s, that now needs to be reversed IMO.

One thing with Germany, is there is still a relatively high number of housing association properties, keeping the private sector more honest, although there are still property hotspots ie Munich and now Frankfurt.

There is a significant and increasing PRS (Private Rented Sector) market in the UK mainly funded by Insurance and Pensions companies. These firms in this for the long term so (from what I’ve seen) the developments should be of decent quality and there will be controls on tenants as the investing developers are looking for 25 year returns on their monies.

property hotspots ie Munich and now Frankfurt.

…and buying in the UK will continue to get even more affordable if you’re paying in Euros.

5lab – watch what happens in Scotland. No more short assured tenancies. all rentals will have security of tenure like in the 80s. IIRC there is also some protection from unfair rent increases

In London it doesn’t seem like the market is slowing down at all.

Affordable housing is snatched up by first time buyers within months of being on the market.

‘First time homes’ in zone1/2/3 on the open market start at around £600,000k for a 1 bed and they’re still selling quickly. Cheapest 1 beds often sold before the building is complete.

Even more developments going up in less well-connected places and still selling. (Battersea for example has lots of new construction work going on, the new tube line isn’t planned until 2020 odd)

Rental market is still pretty hectic and cut throat – you can’t wait around.

The only places that seem to struggle somewhat are the less ‘rejuvenated’ areas that are still vastly working class. These most certainly are enclaves of the less-well-off rather than the other way around, it seems. But even they will soon be muscled out for luxury flats and Pret a Manger.

It’s the incessant insinuation that the crash is coming everytime this is mentioned. EVERY time.

1995 was the first time I was told this. I was already too late to buy apparently.

It would not surprise me if quite a few more years passed with the market bleading every possible penny out of buyers and renters before a genuine and sustained correction happens.

I believe it’s a fallacy that renting is far more common on the continent. I saw a stat somewhere that shows the percentage of poeple owning their own home in many of the ‘big’ European countries (UK, France, Germany, maybe Spain and Italy, I can’t remember), and although we were top with something like 67%, we were only slightly above the others. Many were above 55%.

There probably won’t be a genuine and sustained correction. There never has been in the past. There may be the occasional hiccup, there have been a few of them. Houses will only get more affordable due to price stagnation and wage inflation. People simply won’t sell if the price actually drops. (apart from a few unlucky sods who get bankrupted).

I believe it’s a fallacy that renting is far more common on the continent.

Shut up. Next you’ll be telling me that snow causes traffic chaos on the continent as well…

People simply won’t sell if the price actually drops.

I sold right at the bottom of the crash.

I also bought right at the bottom of the crash.

There probably won’t be a genuine and sustained correction.

Whilst demand exceeds supply, nothing will change substantially.

Have not read the thread just the OP

I have have rented on 2 occasions to “play the market”, made money both times but its RISKY and neeve wracking.

It is risky in that if the market goes up it’s likely to price you out of the house you want, possibly quite quickly

Brexit will be a great success and UK economy has shown despite all the Remain negativity that it is very resiliant. So the core rational for the OP’s decsion to consider renting is potentially gravely flawed

Also an aside its now cheaper to rent in Prime central London than buy due to high stamp duty and service charges for flats are paid by owner not tennet. It was Osbourne’s substantial stamp duty increases which caused the top end to fall, not “Brexit” or anythung related.

Just caught up, good thread. Thanks particularly daffy for doing the calcs, understood. For sure there are regional differences, however the song remains the same.

Interesting situation if the system is skewed into the favour of ownership, the BTL certainly helped increase rents to keep in line with mortgage demands.

The German approach with the rent being fixed to the interest rate for the term of the tenancy sounds sensible.

Bottom line AFAIAC is we need more social housing stock. The government could easily control the prices, but it’s not politically viable as the financiers won’t be fed adequately.

Bottom line AFAIAC is we need more social housing stock. The government could easily control the prices, but it’s not politically viable as the financiers won’t be fed adequately.

Yep, if things continue on as it is at the moment something will have change, governments will hit the point where a larger amount of voters are not mortgage paid off/cheap houses waiting to retire. Policy will adjust to attract them, again when looking back at history mass home ownership is a relatively new concept, it’s a system that has been fiddled with over the years. It will be prodded and poked in the future to achieve something else.

There’s a simple root cause to all the angst concerning “house prices post Brexit” ( and other more serious issues )

And that was the outcome of the referendum.

So depending on how/which way you voted means you are either happy and will suffer the consequences, or not happy and look to blame the opposing view.

Y’a just have to take a gamble or a punt on this issue whether to sell or not.

Nothings certain.

Y’a just have to take a gamble or a punt on this issue whether to sell or not.

Nothings certain.
Except you can work out exactly what it would cost to sell today, how much of a hit it will take and so on.

So depending on how/which way you voted means you are either happy and will suffer the consequences, or not happy and look to blame the opposing view.

Not to take this in the Brexit thread direction but I don’t think it will be quite that binary, once the actual Brexit off comes through people can decide how they feel.

Trailrider Jim – Member

Rest of Europe generally rents

Who owns the housing stock?[/quote]

We do generally rent, but not out of choice. We looked at buying a place but even a two bed flat in Munich can/will cost you over 400K€.

One flat opposite us with 60m2 went for640K€, the other one went for 870K€ just last year.

My landlord owns seven properties plus his own house.

GF’s family own two properties including their own.

I don’t understand why people talk about renting in Europe being a good thing, as if they are somehow far less worried about material wealth and living on a more enlightened plane.

Some rich bastard owns those houses and you handing them money every month. Keep that up and your family gets nothing when you die, unless you’re one of the rich bastards in which case their family gets all your money. Great.

Keep that up and your family gets nothing when you die, unless you’re one of the rich bastards in which case their family gets all your money. Great.

And there is the mindset problem, as said in various markets the tipping point is actually close. The UK has only had about 70 years of higher home ownership. The current property market is a long way from where it was 20 years ago. People in are terrified of a crash, too many people are very heavily invested as their only form of retirement and people are finding it harder to get into the market.

Other perspective – why should I pay a hyper inflated price for a house just to line the pockets of somebody lucky enough to buy at the right time?

If you can afford the deposit for the house you want, in the area you want, and its a house you could easily live in, and expand in if necessary, then why wait?

Brexit, to my mind, has only created deliberation / lack of confidence – personified on the High Street.  Also, many Estate Agents have seen a drop post referendum, likewise, Purple Bricks have flown and thats not indicative of a downturn.

My wife and I bought our first house in 2009.  I consider it an achievement to be on the ladder, particularly as we are in the SE.  That being said, I rented for the best part of 20yrs and always thought a mortgage was out of reach due to deposit etc.  If it wasnt for my Wife’s drive and determination, I’d still be giving a landlord my money via a useless rental agent – paying fee’s for their staff parties!!!!

“In London it doesn’t seem like the market is slowing down at all.

Affordable housing is snatched up by first time buyers within months of being on the market.

‘First time homes’ in zone1/2/3 on the open market start at around £600,000k for a 1 bed and they’re still selling quickly. Cheapest 1 beds often sold before the building is complete.”

My mate’s place just off brick Lane has been on the market for four months. 2 bed, 2 bathrooms. About 90m2. No interest.

And agree wholly with what molly said…. We are essentially financing our landlord’s grandkids.

If I could afford to buy, I would, but even with 100k deposit there is nothing I’d want to buy in the region. I don’t fancy a 350k mortgage for some 1 bed place in a shitty part of town…