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Hillsborough
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matt_outandaboutFull Member
One of those events that I remember seeing on the news when growing up. It’s amazing that 20 years have gone by.
🙁kona_ukFree Member20 years ago!! I remember that as a kid @ 16, terrible event…the years have gone by…
trailmonkeyFull MemberTerrible indeed. Everyone who attended football matches in those days recognised that they’d been in really similar situations and felt the tragedy quite strongly. I doubt that there have been many major catastrophies in our recent history that have been so close to so many people.
I hope that the tone of this thread remains respectful.
Tracker1972Free MemberWill have been 16 too. Walking up Fargate in Sheffield hearing on the radio’s on market stalls as it slowly unfurled. Obviously assumed it was media exaggeration, then found out it wasn’t…
jimmyFull MemberI went to buy my first proper MTB from Butterworth’s just around the corner what must have been 4 years later. I recognised the place from TV and although it hadn’t really affected me, I did feel a sense of tragedy seeing the gates to the ground. Can’t imagine how those affected must have felt on the day, just awful.
surferFree MemberI watched on the TV and it all seemed surreal. I’ve been in the car most of the morning listening to the phone in on 5 live. Brings back a lot of memories.
mrsflashFree MemberI remember vividly watching it on tv. Shocking. like you say, hard to believe it was 20 years ago.
They were talking about it on r5 this morning, and interviewed Bruce Grobelaar. Very upsetting.
barcaFree MemberWatched it on TV. Horrendous day.
“There but for the Grace of God…” RIP. ( MCFC).jojoA1Free MemberI was almost moved to tears listening to an article on Radio 4 where one of the sports reporters present on the day told of his experiences and how bitter he felt that the families hadn’t received what he felt was ‘justice’.
matt_outandaboutFull MemberOne of the local yorkshire news people was speaking last night. Bearing in mind this is pre mobile phones to call home and say you are safe, he arrived home to find his 9 year old son who had heard it all on the radio in tears, as they had assumed that dad was dead 🙁
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They also had a guy on who lost 15 and 19 year old daughters.RudeBoyFree MemberI thought the minute’s silence at Anfield on Saturday was amazing. In a stadium full of 45,000 people, you cooduv heard a pin drop. A beautiful tribute.
Just ordinary people; men, women, children. Trying to watch their team play the game they loved.
mike_checkFree MemberLFC TV is free to view all day today for anyone thats interested, a lot of history and tribute.
Through the Wind and the Rain
shteveFree Memberit happened on my 6th birthday, but i dont remember anything about it. They did a feature with des lynam on saturday which was quite something to watch.
malchalesFree MemberI was at hillsborough a couple of years ago with QPR & the memorial was very moving,a sad day indeed.football is often called the beautiful game,not on that day.god bless them all.
SonorFree MemberCan’t believe its been 20 years. Can’t believe no ones been held accountable.
RIP. QPR.
PhilbyFull MemberRemember watching it on TV – couldn’t imagine from the first pictures just how big a tragedy it became. Guy I worked with was there with Forest and said that the whole situation was just so confusing.
RIP – LUFC
mike-at-dialledbikesFree MemberI spent many a match watching Jack Charlton’s Owls on the Penistone Road kop growing up as a lad (opposite the Leppings Lane end where all those people died).
Such a sad occasion.
RIP 96. You’ll never walk alone.
yossarianFree MemberRemember being at work and listening to events unfold, felt so sick
RIP – OUFC
RudeBoyFree MemberReally lovely to see the tributes from fans of all clubs. Beautiful, that people can put their differences aside, to pay respect to their fellow footy fans.
I can’t read/watch some of the accounts of witnesses, and relatives of those who lost their lives, without shedding a tear. So tragic. So many children.
MartinGTFree MemberRIP Indeed.
I’ve realised that my knowledge of the event has been solely based on what I saw on the TV, what I’ve read in the press and what I’ve concluded from my own presumptions.
Until now, I’ve never read either the interim or final public reports into the disaster written by Lord Justice Taylor. Even now I’ve only read the interim report, which covers the actual disaster and findings into the cause, in detail. The final report deals more with what recommendations were made to ensure something like that never occurred again.
It had always been my opinion that the root cause was primarily the failure on a massive scale to police the situation with a small degree of blame to be placed at the feet of the Liverpool fans themselves for the conduct of some of their numbers in the run up to kick off. Reading the report suggests that, whilst blame is placed there, there are other areas which need to take responsibility for the events.
Police – they were massively unprepared for what was to occur and no ‘major disaster plan’ could be successfully implemented as they simply didn’t exist. This wasn’t only true for the South Yorkshire Police force, it was true the country over. If the disaster had happened at St James Park, the police wouldn’t have had a clue what to do. In their own words “it had never happened before so there was no reason to forsee it” They didn’t help themselves by appointing Duckenfield as Chief Superintendent less than a month before the event occurred. The bloke had no experience of dealing with policing a football match for over 10 years. Their biggest failing though had to be after the event. Duckenfield lied about ordering the gate to be opened and when interviewed by Taylor, several officers exaggerated the drunken element of the crowd perhaps to rationalise their loss of control. The unforgivable acts of the force however was their evident desire to mis-lead what had happened and place the blame for the gate opening elsewhere when it had quite clearly been a police order. They were also, I believe behind the famous articles in the Sun and Star which was intent on placing the blame at the hands of the Liverpool fans.
The FA – The FA made the choice to use Hillsborough for the semi-final. At the time, it was considered one of the better grounds in the country but probably more key to their choice was the fact that it was centrally located. In reality, the ground was fairly run down and whilst it could deal with the capacity within the ground, the facilities were not up to standard and the access – particularly at the Leppings Lane end was totally inadequate. Their argument maybe that there was no cause for concern in the two previous years even though there was crowding issues, but they didn’t award the semi-final to Hillsborough for six years before that due to an incident which occurred at the 1981 semi final – injuries due to crushing in the Leppings Lane terraces!
Fans of Liverpool FC – The main areas of blame placed at the fans of LFC have generally been fans without tickets, drunkeness and late arrival at the turnstiles. Reading into Taylor’s report, the official capacity of the Leppings Lane end was 10,100. There were computer systems in place on the turnstiles and cameras to indentify anyone who’d got in by slipping under the turnstiles. As well as that there was CCTV monitoring gate C that the police opened therefore making it able to reasonable estimate how many went through that gate. As a result of the investigations, the report found that there were no more that 10,124 people within the Leppings Lane end – some 14 people more than there should have been. The results of the crushing inside was hardly that of ticketless fans. As for drunkeness most statements attribute that persons with a high levels of inebriation were few and no more than is expected at a football match. As for late arrival at the turnstiles – well how many of us prior to Hillsborough arrived at turnstiles at 2.50 on a match day? It was common practice and the problems caused by late arrival are surely more attributable to the approach to the ground not being able to cope with the numbers.
Sheffield Wednesday – The safety certificate for Hillsborough was issued in 1979. Whilst the perimeter fences were in place at this time, the leppings lane terrace was one open terrace with no segregation and had the capacity of 10,100. Following the problems in 1981, on the advice of the police, the terrace was split into 3 pens. By 1985 the middle pen was split again and also reduced on one side to form a ‘sterile’ corridor between 2 pens. At no time was the safety certififcate ammended to reflect these changes and even more so, the total capacity of 10,100 remained despite the addition of 4 perpendicular fences and the ‘sterile’ area. What’s more, the structural engineer recommended that the turnstiles were amended so that each pen was served by independant turnstiles rather than all of them serving the entire terrace. In doing so, control of numbers within in pen could be controlled. Without do so would mean that was no control. SWFC rejected his suggestions on the grounds of cost. On top of this, the directional signs once through the turnstiles was abysmal. Fans could either take a long walk around the left or right sides to go to the side pens (those which were sparsely populated) or take the short walk through the tunnel in front of them (which led them to the two pens in which the crowding, and deaths occurred).
I remember the day vividly… I was in the kitchen at home listening on the radio to us playing away at Arsenal when they kept cutting away and going to Hillsborough for updates. I remember thinking at the time it was odd and wondered why they kept doing it and then they announced that there had been fatalities and the enormity of the situation came home. At the time I was a season ticket holder in the paddocks under the Milburn stand at SJP and for those of you who remember, it was segregated into 4 pens – 2 to the north of the players tunnel and 2 to the south. I remember my Mam saying soon afterwards that it was a damned good job they’d pulled those fences down at SJP soon afterwards because if they hadn’t, she’d never let me go again – she was beating herself up that she’d let me go in there for nearly 3 years as it was.
For those of you wanting to read through the official reports, the can be found here:
Interim Report
Final ReportIt’s fair to say that my interest in what exactly happened and the causes of it increased when I learned that my lass (who as you know is a Liverpool fan) was supposed to be there standing in the Leppings Lane end. Mercifully, she was supposed to go with her Dad who couldn’t get time off work so in the end they passed the tickets on to people who did come back. She did however lose one of her best mates in the disaster and anytime she reads or sees anything on the TV about Hillsborough, it all comes flooding back and she breaks down.
To the end, the people who died were not just fans of Liverpool, they were football fans who went to a match and some never came home and it could have happened to any of us. For those who did get home, they’ve experienced a living nightmare and horror that I’m grateful I never did.
RIP
m0nster2Free MemberWe were stood precisely there two years previously, for the Coventry/Leeds SF and the Sheff W/Coventry QF.
We were 17 then and 19 when the accident happened.Those 1999 events really hit home more than anything else up to that point in my life I reckon.
stonemonkeyFree MemberI was 6 when it happened at my grandads remember someone phoning up and telling him to put the TV on my dad was there but fortunately was ok, as some have said before no mobile phones in those days didnt know he was ok till late in the evening. even at a young age it is very vivid to meremeber the policemans hats on the pitch… Live in sheffield now and had exams in the sports halls where they kept he bodies , very strange . Wentdown today to pay my respects it was good to see so many liverpool and owls / blades fans there too.
Justice for the 96
On a final note the Sun newspaper can go f*ck themseleves
surferFree MemberThanks for the summary Martin.
Just driven past Anfield picking my kids up, its like match day, great atmosphere.
thepodgeFree Memberit was bad but its gets disproportional coverage against the Bradford City stadium fire which I personally think was far worse
ChaseFree MemberWife has watched this with a few tears today. Sadly it brings back too many bad memories of been at Valley Parade when the fire started.
The one thing she has commented on today after seeing the old Hillsborough footage on the news was the fact that those fences were there – they send shivers down her spine after having to climb over them as a 13 year old girl not knowing whether the other people she was with made it or not. Fortunately they did, but too many didn’t.Both sad days that should never be forgotten.
HadgeFree MemberIt’s very touching as a Liverpool supporter to see the kind and heartfelt remarks about the tragedy on this forum. I always always go to the memorial every time I go Anfield and I pay my respects to those that died watching trying to watch the team they love. It’s so sad and also bad that those responsible still haven’t been accounted for. I watched the News At Ten last night and seeing the moving report from the ambulance driver there that day made me think how much others have suffered too from such a disaster. I myself wasn’t at the match, I was at Oulton Park because I gave my ticket to someone else but I remember it all so very clearly. RIP 96 – You Will Never Walk Alone
theotherjonvFree MemberI went to Hillsborough in Jan 90 and stood and looked at the Leppings Lane, and found it very difficult to imagine what had happened there.
Like Martin GT – my earliest ‘proper football’ watching was with my Grandad taking me to SJP in the late 70’s and standing on the Gallowgate End, in the immense crush that happened there every week. Many’s the time it could have happened. Another time, another place.
The sterility of modern football grounds is a price worth paying to prevent similar ever happening again. And if you saw MOTD on Sunday, or the CL last night – with the right fans and the right occasion, all seaters can still make the hairs stand up.
RIP the Heysel 39, the 96 at Hillsborough, 56 at Valley Parade and the 66 crushed at Ibrox. It’s a great game, but in deference to the late Mr Shankly, it’s not worth dying for.
Theotherjonv (RFC and NUFC)
SandwichFull MemberThere was an interesting comment on the James Lawton column from an Arsenal Steward who points out that LFC fans still rush the turnstiles at The Emirates Stadium when they do not have a ticket. Full article here.
mike_checkFree Memberok Sandwich, also, The S*n printed some horrible lies about Liverpool Fans as well.
Through the Wind and the Rain
SandwichFull MemberThat I don’t dispute, S.Yorks police PR trying to deflect attention from their failures and subsequent cover up.
You would have thought such a disaster would have had an effect on subsequent behaviour as those that forget their history are apt to repeat it. In a crush situation it does not take many reckless fools to endanger those that have paid for their entertainment.
My comment was not so much the about behaviour at Leppings Lane but current behaviour as witnessed by a trained steward at a brand new stadium. Fortunately new stadium design has mostly removed crush dangers and no doubt helps prevent the minority of freeloaders from gaining access.
After Bradford and Hillsborough I lost interest in football and going to it.TrampusFree MemberSandwich, you have a valid point. Can you not leave it till another time, when rationality and emotion are more balanced?
ourmaninthenorthFull MemberEDIT: changed my mind on putting into writing what I said. Not the place for it. Apols.
DrJFull MemberYou young lads – my first visit to Hillsborough I saw Kevin Keegan playing for Scunthorpe.
theotherjonvFree MemberI saw him play for Newcastle (and later manage them) and England. Is that any good?
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