- This topic has 51 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 14 years ago by coolhandluke.
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helmets with (chin guard extension)
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elaineanneFree Member
do 'leisurelakes' bikes sell these ? and how much are they approx…
ive gone over the handlebars a couple of times now so it mite be wise to think about one of these helmets ? i need a girlie one too…(well not too girlie)…elaineanneFree Membereye yep i just had alook at those ! thankyou…. didnt actually know they did full face for women….lol … cheers…
TandemJeremyFree MemberBe aware anne that the chinbars are not included in testing, there are anecdotes ( not real data) about the chinbars on those met helmets fracturing and they will increase tthe rotational impact risk. Also none that I have seen have polystyrene in the chinbar ecept the casco viper – no poly = no impact absorbtion.
Mptorcycle helmets have developed so the chinbar is right next to your chin when the helmet is on purely to reduce the rotational impact risk and the risk of your facce hitting the chinbar hard as the helmet rotates.
mikewsmithFree Membermets are nice well vented and light, took a few knocks that would have had been nastier without.
Colin-TFull MemberA full-on full-face helmet will not be too comfortable to ride in for a long time, or even a short time if you're working hard. The Specialized Deviant is probably the best vented option out there.
Lighter-weight alternatives will be more comfortable but will not offer anywhere near the same amount of protection. I personally own a Met Parachute which mostly gets used without the chin guard and I have a proper full-facer for anything properly extreme like 4X or DH. Sometimes I choose to run the chin-piece on the Parachute too although I am well aware of the minimal extra protection and assosciated risks. Its nice to have options.
@ TJ "they will increase tthe rotational impact risk"
but thats true of all helmets to an extent, and then you've got the whole argument about whether people wearing helmets take more risks… 😈CheesybeanZFull Memberhttp://www.rutlandcycling.com/9173/MET-Parachute-Helmet.html
or these are light and loads of vents
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=14289
5thElefantFree Member
I've got one of those. Very comfy. Very cool (take that any way you want). Provides some protection against vigorously rubbing your face on gravel, which is nice.ooOOooFree MemberMine going strong too. A mate in Morzine had one, and I saw it save his face when he hit 2nd jump of the day….and his front wheel fell out (check your QRs kids!).
Not had a big crash in mine yet, but it's more reassuring than normal XC lid for your face. Got a FF too, but I didn't know what Elaine was really after
ooOOooFree MemberAnd there is a little bit of EVA foam in the sides of the chinbar.
TrimixFree MemberYou may 'feel' its more reassuring, but its completely pointless in a real life situation. You will end up with a damaged chin from the chin bit and a twisted neck from it rotating.
If you go over the bars your going to land on your hands first, not your chin.
ooOOooFree MemberWould you say that compared to a normal XC lid?
And I've had crashes without time to put my hands out.5thElefantFree MemberIf you go over the bars your going to land on your hands first, not your chin.
Crap.
Have a look to see how many mx, or motorbike riders wear open face helmets (with good reason). If you're going to wear a helmet you need one that offers some face protection, otherwise I don't see the point. I always land on my face.
carlosgFree MemberYou may 'feel' its more reassuring, but its completely pointless in a real life situation. You will end up with a damaged chin from the chin bit and a twisted neck from it rotating.
Mmmm , not sure about that , I had a nasty off a few years ago at Sherwood pines on one of the dual descender courses wearing a Giro switchblade and landed face first all i got was a bit of mud scraped into my face by the chin gaurd.
I'm pretty sure that wearing a standard helmet would've resulted in lost facial skin at the very least as the crash was enough to snap one of the shift levers on my xtr shifters.Ed-OFree MemberI wouldn't recommend one of those helmets they are just insubstantial.
You'd be better thinking about what you've done to send you over the bars. It's probably wrong body positioning or inappropriate braking. We all go over the bars now and again welcome to the club. 🙂
TandemJeremyFree MemberThe one clear thing about FF cycle helmets is that there is no testing or standards for the chinbar and no real data about them out there.
I personally would never wear a met parachute – from what I know about helmets the chin bar is positivly dangerous.
If you want a half way house helmet the casco viper seems like a good bet ( are they still made????)
I don't think cycle FF helmets are up to much anyway – they look like mortorcycle helmets of 30 yrs ago with the chinbar sitting so far forward and with no poly foam in the chin.
chris_mbukFree Memberyeh the helmets above are called MET-parashoot i think, can find them one crc, its simular to what ron has but tbh i think there more dangerous as they could easily break and probaly go straight through your windpipe lol
matthewlhomeFree MemberThe one clear thing about FF cycle helmets is that there is no testing or standards for the chinbar and no real data about them out there.
Is there not a specific downhill helmet standard?
nickcFull Memberlast big off I had, I used my head as a brake, and I still wouldn't consider one of those helmets…
Agree with Ed-O, examine why you came off in the first place
TandemJeremyFree MemberMathew – not that I am aware of. Helmets are tested in a very easy to pass manner and the testing is only on the main part of the shell.
Very very basic tests
juanFree MemberAlso none that I have seen have polystyrene in the chinbar ecept the casco viper – no poly = no impact absorbtion.
And the giro switchblade tj.
To be fair i think the switchblade was about the best XC lid with a chin guard. The chin was bolt on and padded with foam.I wouldn't take much notice about TJ. He's a bit of an anti helmet, plus the chin guard must have a use, otherwise motorcycle helmet wouldn't have one (oh and I have seen a friend of mine breaking a tooth during a fall).
Anyway back to topic. The deviant carbon is the best bet at the moment.
mikewsmithFree Member[Quote]You may 'feel' its more reassuring, but its completely pointless in a real life situation. You will end up with a damaged chin from the chin bit and a twisted neck from it rotating.[/quote]
balls!! chin survived fine, better than if it had smashed into the floor
I wouldn't recommend one of those helmets they are just insubstantial.
Still quite substantial, gave up trying to break mine after 2 years
I personally would never wear a met parachute – from what I know about helmets the chin bar is positivly dangerous.
Seen no real life evidence to back this up EVER. Owned a Giro Switchblade, MET Parachute & Specialized Deviant. Crashed heavy in the head area on all 3. All did their job.
TandemJeremyFree MemberJuan – Forgot the switchblade. Thats a poly chinbar is it not? The chinbar on a quality motorcycle helmet has the poly in it and sits much closer to your chin – thus it has some effectiveness.
Mikew
There is some evidence but not of high quality. Anecdote is not evidence.
ooOOooFree MemberOh dear. I shall endeavour to crash more to help the evidence base.
mamadirtFree MemberAnd I've had crashes without time to put my hands out.
Me too 🙁 . . . oh wait, I bruised my knuckles too.
Personally I'd go for a more substantial full-face rather than the Met (there've been a few threads about these in the past with varying opinions). I tend to wear a pi$$pot most of the time and full-face occasionally for d/h (as I ride to the trails I have a ladies Dakine Drafter hydration pack with a carry flap for a full-face). Of course on Saturday I was wearing neither 🙄 . . . you live and learn, eh?
TandemJeremyFree Membercan you do it in a double blind controlled manner please or I shall have to discount it 🙂
mikewsmithFree Memberi feel the only answer is to throw crash test dummies down rock gardens, any one want to join in?
matthewlhomeFree MemberSorry – been busy for a bit. Jeremy – have a look here…
this specification requires greater impact protection and provides performance criteria for chin bars on full-face helmets
Interesting – so could meet downhill spec without being full face
The ambient test helmet shall be subjected to the chin bar impact test.
So yes, if there is a chin bar, it will be tested.
It would be interesting to see if the MET Parachute meets this standard (cannot find info on the MET site). If it does then we can all finally know if a parachute is as good as a proper full facer. The Specialized one linked to above appears to meet the standard.
TandemJeremyFree Membermatthewlhome
Interesting – every day is a school day!
Thaats not a part of the legal testing standards as in CE but is an additional standard over and above the legal standard testing. Is that correct? Is it used in the UK?
I would love to see a full copy but am not paying that much.
Thanks
matthewlhomeFree Memberno I was too tight to do that too! Would be curious to know if all full face helmets meet that standard. I would assume that to race downhill one would need to use a helmet that meets this standard?
BreganteFull MemberYou may 'feel' its more reassuring, but its completely pointless in a real life situation. You will end up with a damaged chin from the chin bit and a twisted neck from it rotating.
If you go over the bars your going to land on your hands first, not your chin
Is any of that based on fact?
I have a Met parachute and wore it in the pyrenees this summer. I found it light, comfortable for all day riding and the chin guard definitely provides some moderate protection (although in no way should it be considered a full face helmet) I face planted whilst riding of a 4 ft high terrace and DIDN'T LAND ON MY HANDS. My face was what hit the very rocky ground first. I am 15st and the helmet did not break. It did not "penetrate my windpipe" or "rotate" in any way. What it did do is save my grid from a mullering.
I have read so many negative comments about these helmets from people who DON'T OWN ONE and think that this is predominantly based on the fact that they look different. I personally probably wouldn't wear mine for the majority of riding I do but they definitely do provide some additional face protection.
TandemJeremyFree MemberThe chinbar having the potential to cause rotational forces is based on fact.
BreganteFull Memberrather the chin bar exerting rotational force than my chin exerting (admittedly less) force
TandemJeremyFree MemberBregante
Thats the trade off and unfortunately it cannot be quantified as we just don't have the data.
You exchange the risk of losing skin or teeth for the risk of breaking your neck – and what level these risks are is unknown.
the amount of spinal injuries scares me – but its still a very small number and again its not known how many of them the helmets played a part
ooOOooFree MemberDon't really see how the chinbar can provide much more leverage than your own chin?
Or do you think we should leave the chin/teeth as a crumple zone?BreganteFull MemberI accept your point and I wasn't having a go at you personally but I have seen so many posts (mainly from people who have never owned one) which glibly state that the chin guard will break and cause untold damage to your face/decapitate you/puncture your windpipe etc, yet I have never heard from anybody that this has happened to (unilkely that I would hear from someone who was decapitated tho :lol:)
I don't really like the look of them and you do feel a bit of a tw4t wearing one. I haven't worn mine this year in the UK apart from the first time I rode the Innerleithen XC trail as somebody warned me it was tricky in places but as far as providing some additional face protection, particularly if riding somewhere new/technical/necky then I would say they are worth considering.
TandemJeremyFree MemberooOOoo
because it is effectively a lever – yur head has radius of what – 120 mm roughly – the chinbar increases significantly this so any force acting tangentally to your head is increased if it hits the chinbar not the chin
BreganteFull MemberDon't really see how the chinbar can provide much more leverage than your own chin?
to be fair- that's just physics. The chin bar protrudes several inches more than your chin, therfore increasing the "leverage" – unless you're Jimmy Hill 😆
ooOOooFree MemberI would say by the time the chin bar is pressed aginst your chin, it's an extra 20mm/15% at most. They don't stick out as much as FF. A direct face plant would send the forces perpendicularly through the centre of your head.
I use mine like you Bregante. It's extra protection for XC stuff where you feel nervous. I wear a FF for DH. Never heard any of these horror stories come true either!
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