Haverfordwest tragic SUP accident.

Not sure if we’ve done this but there was a tragic incident recently where two people on Stand Up Paddleboards (SUP) died on a river in Haverfordwest.

Can’t find a news link as I’m on my phone so my facts might not be totally accurate, but apart from questioning the judgment about being on a swollen river in this weather on a SUP, it seems they got into trouble on a weir.

I have a normal sit in kayak that I take on the canal, but I’m often eyeing up the local river. Unfortunately there are regular weirs. I understand the main danger of them regarding the boil point and being unable to escape. But what other dangers are there. Are they doable in good conditions, or is it always best to go round them. How close can you get before you have to commit? What about fish passes? They look about kayak width…

Weirs are big bad news. I’ve done a fair bit of reasonably interesting ww kayaking and any sort of weir still gives me the shivers.

boil point and being unable to escape.

Yep. It’s the anti scour weirs thag are the big issue. They’re purposely designed with a pool deep enough to stop the water flow eroding the bottom of the weir. Instead the water flows around in this circular motion which is great fir the concrete foundations, but fir swimmers caught in it not so much.

But what other dangers are there.

The other key problem with some weirs is their uniformity. Usually in a natural stopper there will be some differences in flow etc, so as you move about in it then you can often find an escape. But most man-made weirs are pretty uniform, with consequently few escape points.

Are they doable in good conditions, or is it always best to go round them.

Depends of the weir. Some of them, eg Hurley, make fabulous surf spots where you can pull some great tricks. But it sounds on the weir and the water level on the day. The same weircan be deadly at one level and benign at a higher level.

How close can you get before you have to commit?

Depends on the weir and the water level. With a lot of weirs there is a calm flat pool above it, so you can paddle up for a look. But the same weir with a bit more flow could see you dragged over against your will. There are few things more terrifying than getting to the lip of a nasty weir, seeing that it looks really bad, and concurrently realising that the flow is too strong fir you to back out and you’re committed to running it.

What about fish passes? They look about kayak width…

Some are runnable, eg on the Ouse, but TBH I’d try to avoid all man-made dams and find a better river to do.

Tragic event and no doubt the full story will emerge in time.

Weirs come in all shapes and sizes, often with local issues to take into account too. And then each one changes nature with different water levels. You need ability and knowledge to go near them, let alone play on them.

They aren’t always in good condition, I have seen a few crumbling ones with reinforcing steel mesh or rods sticking up.

At anything above a scrape a lot of dangers are hidden, there are some good guidebooks and forums out there but they definitely demand respect

We were out that way on Saturday and I was really surprised to see anyone was going out on a SUP with the rivers the way they were.

There had been very heavy rain and there was flooding all around West Wales – we had to ford a number of areas where the Teifi had burst its banks, and upriver it was a raging torrent.

Whilst I have every sympathy for the family of the deceased, I would question the sense/competence of anyone going out on a paddleboard in those conditions unless they were an experienced whitewater rider.

I have a normal sit in kayak that I take on the canal, but I’m often eyeing up the local river. Unfortunately there are regular weirs. I understand the main danger of them regarding the boil point and being unable to escape. But what other dangers are there.

I think you really want to find some training, and then local expertise.

Are they doable in good conditions, or is it always best to go round them. How close can you get before you have to commit?

I think if you are asking these questions the answer is go round. Once you’ve enough moving water experience you can start to make your own judgement call.

I don’t know the circumstances of this weekend’s accident, but I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t turn out that part of the problem was some/all of them didn’t have quick release leashes on and so couldn’t escape their boards. No doubt the MAIB, media etc will make a big deal of this and very many sup owners will get the wrong end of the stick and either stop using leashes as all (probably worse) or cough up for new ones they don’t need – because 99% of people paddling SUPs don’t do it on fast moving water. Whilst the official report will of course comment on the weather, experience and planning – any deficiencies there will be undersold because there’s nothing to sell people there!

Unless of course anyone who survived was one of the planners and there’s clear negligence then the media will love a show trial for manslaughter…

Yes tragic I see people paddleboarding on the lune near halton by a weir, I wouldn’t go anywhere near. I was swimming yesterday in the sea by a river outflow, the water temp drops right down really quickly and a strong current started to give me the wobbles, I was only 20m out too.

We have had to cancel a few sup trips due to bad weather, it’s gutting but much prefer to be safe. Things can get out of hand really quickly.

Looks like two SUPers died and a guy who tried to rescue them (who was also in the group of 9?), so 3 died.

Link

The weir in question is a horrible one and marks where the Western Cleddau becomes tidal which means there is always a changing amount of water at the bottom of it.
In my 25 years of being a watersport instructor in Pembrokeshire I’ve never heard of anyone playing or paddling it in any craft.
There is a small tributary at the bottom and the fish pass makes for some very nasty eddy lines and backflowing water.
I haven’t heard what has caused the accident but if a group upstream didn’t realise it was there or thought the fish pass might be shootable then I can envision how people could get into difficulty very easily.
A quite horrible accident that has affected a lot of people.

Truly horrific.

A work colleague of my wifes around 20 years ago died along with her husband at a similar looking local river, right at the point it goes tidal too. The dog got in trouble, he tried to grab it and was pulled in, she tried to help him, their 6 month old baby was left parentless on the bank. 🙁

Tragic. There is always some risk in paddle sports but its a sad day when one let alone more die on a river or in the sea.

I’m a reasonable canoeist and kayaker with deep respect for weirs. Its a bit sad but I actually always have a throw bag in the back of car tucked into one of the side pockets. It lives there permanently on the hope I never have to use it to try and rescue someone (bit like the first aid kit in the other pocket).

@db, could you give a link to what a throw bag is and briefly describe how you use it?

I assume he means one of these that kayakers often have
Link

See the video on that link

A throw bag is used to rescue people from rivers whilst minimising risk to yourself. I use HF branded ones but there are lots available from Palm, Peak and other vendors.

If you wanted to use one you are best to go on a white water safety and rescue course. Using one with little or no knowledge can make a situation worse. There is a good book called White Water Safety & Rescue (Franco Ferrero) if you really don’t want to go on a course but honestly a course is best (and this is from someone who hates going on courses for anything).

Sad to hear of this. I won’t be drawing any judgements or suggesting reasons without the full facts.

Sad to say that weirs, moving water, tidal water and big open water have risks. Not all are ‘visible’ without prior training or experience. Very few are clear cut, there are so many variables and ‘if’ moments, that again a combination of training, experience and good decision making are the main way of avoiding significant issues.

Weirs specifically, as folk above are pointing out, vary massively. Some of the worst and most dangerous weirs I know look benign. Some of the easiest/safest look bloody scary.

As well as judging risk there needs to be a ‘what if?’ cover – *if* one of you takes a swim, how will you rescue them? Are you in place? Can you actually pull off the plan?

Sadly I think after the last two years there are a lot of people with shiny boats and boards who have a significant lack of judgement, experience and training. There will be more issues, on all sorts of water.

Our last paddle in the summer on Loch Lomond saw:

– SUP with paddler saddled with 2x expedition rucksacks, one front, one back, no B/A on and the bags had hip belts done up, sat on board as she couldn’t stand up under the weight.

– SUP paddler with no BA, bikini and shorts, no bag of gear, in the middle of the south end of the loch, paddling away from Inchcailoch, and asking how far was Duck Bay on the other side…

– Kayaker with toddler in the cockpit between legs, rest of family in various other kayaks spinning circles while trying to get to one of the islands.

– Smallish open canoe loaded with family of 5, dog, pile of deckchairs and tents, no B/As on adults.

Moving water: this paddler is about to die another day – but by heck they came close. The river at the end of my road, which sees many people swimming just upstream (Allan Water in Dunblane).

longdog
Free Member

Looks like two SUP died and a guy who tried to rescue them, so 3.

Link

That’s awful, RIP. Props to the brave chap who lost his life trying to save them.

Weirs give me the willies, I remember kayaking down them when I was a teenager being completely unaware of the danger.

 could you give a link to what a throw bag is and briefly describe how you use it?

@gaidong

With training.

Without training you wrap someone up in a rope on moving water, or both of you now in the water, possibly making the situation worse.

– SUP with paddler saddled with 2x expedition rucksacks, one front, one back, no B/A on and the bags had hip belts done up, sat on board as she couldn’t stand up under the weight

As an occasional holiday paddler asking a professional outdoors instructor, while I can kind of see none of these aspects being perfectly ideal, whats the main problem/danger here?

That river video – does make it clear to me why I dont want to try this sort of thing. I could see no difference in how the first guy took it successfully, compared to the second.

Big uptake of SUP usage during lockdown enabled partly by the Lidl £199 offers, plus the ‘Living your best life ‘ T5 crew adding it to their lifestyle vehicle of choice.
Neighbour opposite stores one for her daughter and friends. Great in a onshore F3 winds and below , not so great in a F4 offshore. As she found out, once away from the beach the windage was too great for her to return
Her mum tried to swim out and ‘help’ fully clothed but realised she ws getting blown away faaster than she could swim. Fortunatly my neighbour ( windsurfer and ex olympic canoeist ) realised what was happeneing and was able to instruct the lass via mime to lay flat and front crawl back in , which she did eventually
Mum and daughter have now been breifed in Offshore winds and self rescue techniques , plus told if we are out windsurfing then its most likely too windy for a SUP.
Sounds like a tragic accident which might have been avoidable but we cannot coccoon everyone from harm or there would be no climbing , mtb or surfing or windsurfing or canoeing etc . The risk factor adds to the excitement, and risk management plays a part in that for sure.

if the picture on the news story is where it happened and representative of the conditions, I can’t imagine why anyone would be in the vicinity on a paddle-board.

as with matt, I’m constantly amazed at the situations that paddle-boarders seem happy to place themselves in.

 whats the main problem/danger here?

There is potential for the weight of the rucksacks to pull you under – and without presence of mind to release hip belt, you are stuck with them on.

Now it may be that she had them full of thermarests, full of foam and would float, but I doubt it…

I could see no difference in how the first guy took it successfully, compared to the second.

from the limited pixels available, I would say put a decent stroke in to get away from the backtow, the 2nd guy’s paddles fast but his blades barely scuff the water.

There is potential for the weight of the rucksacks to pull you under – and without presence of mind to release hip belt, you are stuck with them on.

Ah, she was wearing them, I totally misunderstood that part. I was picturing them on the front and rear deck, hipbelts somehow around the board or into the webbing/bungees.

I could see no difference in how the first guy took it successfully, compared to the second.

There is a chain of events here (and some I am proposing without full knowledge):

– did they scout the weir? I am not sure they did – there is a line of weakness in the middle river, as you can see by the line of darker water in among bubbles downstream from the weir.

– they don’t have safety in place – the first paddler cannot help from the water, and someone has to run around to that parapet to help

– the first person uses deep, powerful strokes, including one right on the edge. Hits the weir with momentum and keeps going.

– The second person seems to waver, slow, and while blades while moving they are barely grabbing the water. This means they hit the edge of the weir with minimal momentum and pause paddling for about a stroke.

– there is a few seconds pause before the first paddler starts hollering “paddle!” – and again the second person isn’t paddling effectively.

That is just the lead into the incident, let alone the rescue.

No doubt the MAIB, media etc will make a big deal of this

From the limited info in the article, 8 (7 plus guide/coach I assume) person SUP tour ends up in tragedy, I’d wager that this will be taught in colleges and other training courses for years to come.

Terrible, terrible tragedy.
Thoughts are with family and loved ones.

Big uptake of SUP usage during lockdown enabled partly by the Lidl £199 offers, plus the ‘Living your best life ‘ T5 crew adding it to their lifestyle vehicle of choice.

I doubt that even 1% of the paddleboard boom were bought at Lidl/Aldi. If it was driven by people who usually holiday abroad staying here then all we’ve done is increase the local density of silly mistakes rather than the total number.

I think the trend actually started before covid. You can say it’s the T5 crew – but that just seems like wanting to put people in some sort of stereotype (I don’t have a T5 but have had a paddleboard before any Lidl £199 offers). Actually, the advantage of an iSUP is that you can throw it in the boot – no van or roofrack needed. Perhaps “Instagram” has a contribution here – but people were sharing their holiday experiences and aspiring to be as good as each other since before the instamatic camera was invented.

If you want to point the finger of blame you could point it to successive governments that have underfunded outdoor education and access to adventurous activities which mean there’s generations who have little appreciation that just because they saw someone else do something similar and make it look easy – it might not be*. Or to successive government policies which encouraged people to go abroad for their 2 weeks in the sun rather than holidaying here and thus feeding an industry of hire/guides to get you afloat safely.

(* actually the cautious types who won’t go a walk in the country unless its on an official waymarked trail with a well finished surface are probably more of a long term problem to the country)

For those interested in some more detail and thoughts.

From BCU: https://britishcanoeing.org.uk/uploads/documents/Safety-at-weirs.pdf

Also, to give an idea of how odd some weirs are:

A ‘safe’ weir, that I have led beginners down:

A weir that has drowned a couple of people, prior to the addition of the central ‘break’ and bars below to allow for free passage of canoes. One person was dog walker who waded in (shows how shallow) to rescue the dog and drowned.

matt_outandabout

Thanks for that PDF. It’s fascinating. Just what I was after. As I said in my original post, I’ve spent some time looking at weirs trying to work out the dangers but not really understanding what I’m looking at. That explains things perfectly.

I know a lot of people say “don’t speculate” but I genuinely find these types of threads to provide an interesting list of what-not-to-do from people who know a lot more than me.

Not that I ever really go in the water or have any desire to go kayaking or supping, but I might see someone in trouble.

Not that I ever really go in the water or have any desire to go kayaking or supping, but I might see someone in trouble.

Try it! Paddling down our water ways is a fantastic experience and lets you see our beautiful land from a different perspective. A little training and/or travelling with experienced people will make it a lot safer. Its never risk free but nor is riding a bike up and down hills.

The more people who travel and enjoy our water ways the more people who will value our waterways and be prepared to fight for access and water quality (see the other water companies dumping thread!)

– Kayaker with toddler in the cockpit between legs, rest of family in various other kayaks spinning circles while trying to get to one of the islands.

This made me feel weird and awkward inside.

Its never risk free but nor is riding a bike up and down hills.

Different magnitude of risk IME. more likely to damage yourself MTBing, more likely to die kayaking.

YMMV

Different magnitude of risk IME. more likely to damage yourself MTBing, more likely to die kayaking.

I think it’s also to do with perception of risk. It’s easy to look at a trail that’s steep and rocky and, if you have little or no experience, think ‘nope’! As matt_outandabout’s weir pictures show above, to the uninformed water and water features are much harder to risk assess for the layman and (in my experience as an extremely lapsed sailing and windsurfing instructor) requires a lot more experience and contextual knowledge.

This made me feel weird and awkward inside.

@<span class=”bbp-author-name”>soundninjauk</span> – I did try to ‘have a word’, but as I was doing so the ferry chap came over and offered to help out. We were in the moorings still, and I think the ferry chap was more than on it so we backed out.

This made me feel weird and awkward inside.

Forgive my ignorance, I’m new to this. But struggling to see the OMG-LEVEL danger here.

Fair enough if white water, danger of crushing much like it’s not a good idea to have a sprog on your lap whilst driving. Didn’t the poster say a Loch? Large, flat water? Again, never really been to a loch except five minutes at Loch Lomond so maybe they’re choppy?

Various family members around so not alone. Spinning? Not realised what the skeg is for? I did that on my first go and apart from looking daft, nothing bad happened.

Didn’t the poster say a Loch? Large, flat water?

Yes large and hence the water can quickly become unflat if the wind picks up.
For the spinning in circles that isnt really what the skeg is designed for unless the reason you are spinning is down purely to the wind in which case its probably time to get off the water.

@jambourgie

The issues are:

that two of you in a cockpit = increases likelihood  of capsize and difficulty in getting out if the boat capsizes. Plus how do you get back into kayak without letting go of toddler to get back in.

With multiple people rescues and tows become difficult, particularly if you have a distance back to shore or are in deepwater. They had no towing kit, so unless they know how to bulldoze a boat, they are then accompanying a swimmer or two, a long way in cold water.

Getting a kayak back upright takes some skill and a clear cockpit – as that is where the rescued boat lands and drains. The toddler would have a kayak on their head.

Having a few boats out of control (spinning) shows a real lack of fundamental skill, let alone ability to self rescue.

Lomond is big, often areas where wind and wave are much larger than it appears from the shore, and therefore conditions change rapidly. Without knowing how to respond, you could find a very long and cold float…

Not all boats have skegs.

That makes sense. Thanks.

Forgive my ignorance, I’m new to this. But struggling to see the OMG-LEVEL danger here.
. Didn’t the poster say a Loch? Large, flat water?

I’ve been sailing since before I could walk. Often early and late season, crossed the North Sea and racked up thousands of miles on Scotland’s west coast, sometimes in pretty boisterous conditions.

Without a doubt the sketchiest, closest to hypothermia and actual harm I’ve been was in Loch Lommond in mid summer and wearing a 3mm wetsuit with a blue sky. Regatta was very blowy – we capsized 3 times getting to the start line. By the end of the first beat and got to the first mark we had capsized 10 times in the gusts. We were frozen with blue lips. Each righting of the dinghy (enterprise) taking more and more effort.

Called it at the mark and headed back to the shore and spent the rest of the afternoon in the warm sunshine having a bbq.

Point is, to the uninformed it looked a really nice day – bit breezy but so what, it’s Scotland. Reality is that Loch Lommond is bloody cold year round. A few capsizes and you quickly get exhausted and very cold. If you’re not even wearing a wetsuit, you’ll get into danger much quicker.