Have we done "the decline of Nadal" yet?

Not so sure he does any more drugs than the majority of his oponents

Not so sure about that………..

bit like Tiger at Golf. He used to out drive everyone and play every hole like it was 10% shorter than the next guy. Having lost that he is just another jobbing pro!

not sure that is fair – if you have a lot of confidence in your swing you can try to hit it hard – if you haven’t you are trying to keep the hook that most powerful golfer succumb to under control.

Look at Ben Hogan – he couldn’t stay on the tour until he had learnt his ‘secret’ that let him keep his hook under control, and once he had he was a big hitter and one of the greatest ball strikers – just look at the distances he quotes in his power golf book, and that was with equipment from the 50’s.

Not so sure about that………..

at the risk of looking like a racist I don’t think it is unusual for someone like Serena to develop muscles like that – I remember years ago the Today newspaper had a picture of a naked Naomi Campbell from the rear and her musculature was fantastic – if she wasn’t identifiable and the paper had said she was an Olympic sprinter it would have seemed feasible.

at the risk of looking like a racist I don’t think it is unusual for someone like Serena to develop muscles like that – I remember years ago the Today newspaper had a picture of a naked Naomi Campbell from the rear and her musculature was fantastic – if she wasn’t identifiable and the paper had said she was an Olympic sprinter it would have seemed feasible.

I don’t think that is racist, more a misunderstanding of PED’s. Black people generally have better potential for muscle gain and more fast twitch muscle fibres. You only have to look at sprinters and body builders.

That doesn’t changed the fact that Serena looks like a body builder and I don’t care how good your genetics are, it is pretty much impossible to have that physique and play tennis at the highest level.

The two things just don’t go together.

kudos100 – Member

That doesn’t changed the fact that Serena looks like a body builder and I don’t care how good your genetics are, it is pretty much impossible to have that physique and play tennis at the highest level.

The two things just don’t go together.

You keep saying things like this but I don’t see you backing it up. Like, that article you linked up the page, does nothing to support you.

If you look at other sports, you can very often see this sort of step-change, things that were impossible or wrong suddenly become very possible or very right. Nadal basically demonstrated to people what you could do if you brought big guns to a tennis match, his approach was against conventional wisdom which is why you can say “nobody else is built like that”. Others have seen the potential and tried to emulate him but they came at it late so it’s no surprise they don’t hit the same mark- he’s built his whole playing approach around it. (not to say he’s power without technique, to be clear, rather he’s technique made for power)

Just to be clear, I’m not saying he is or isn’t a doper but your reasoning seems very lacking.

Just to be clear, I’m not saying he is or isn’t a doper but your reasoning seems very lacking.

I can’t really be arsed to post up a load of articles about doping and tennis, or high level sport in general. If you want to look, go ahead, there is so much about it will keep you busy for a while.

There has been controversy around Nadal ever since he first came onto the scene.

It was laughable when all the people on this forum and on the net came out to support Lance when he was accused of doping.

If you follow body building, power lifting or any other ‘sport’ where the testing is a joke and all of the athletes are on huge amounts of drugs you get to learn about what is possible with strength, recovery, injury healing etc. As well as this you get to recognise what the drugs do to someone’s physique.

It’s nice to think that these great athletes are smashing records, rewriting the history books and dominating the sport based on talent and hard work alone, but if you bother to look beneath the surface you will find it isn’t always the case.

kudos100 – Member

I can’t really be arsed to post up a load of articles about doping and tennis, or high level sport in general. If you want to look, go ahead, there is so much about it will keep you busy for a while.

I don’t think anyone doubts the existence of doping thanks 😆 But this is just more innuendo. It seems like you’ve decided he’s guilty and now you’re trying to backfill that decision but you’ve not come up with anything more compelling than “he has to be, it’s obvious”.

Countdown til someone says “silent bans”…

I don’t think anyone doubts the existence of doping thanks But this is just more innuendo. It seems like you’ve decided he’s guilty and now you’re trying to backfill that decision but you’ve not come up with anything more compelling than “he has to be, it’s obvious”.

I’ve said I think it’s very likely and possible Nadal has taken PED’s. Just like I think IT IS LIKELY that Serena is doped up to the gills.

I don’t have any hard evidence as I am not there when they are possibly taking PED’s, but due to my knowledge of sport and drugs I’d say it is highly likely that both Nadal and Serena will have both taken illegal PED’s at some point.

Jesus, Richard Gasquet claimed he had kissed a girl who had done coke when he tested positive 😆

Agassi lied about taking meth and only came out with it when in his autobiography.

Just for you Northwind 😉

http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Doping,-Tennis,-Nadal—Connection-.aspx

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/curious-case-of-rafael-nadal.html

http://theultimatetennisblog.com/christophe-rochus-speaks-out-about-doping-in-tennis/

Nadal’s body is broken. Uncle Tony might look like a Mafia fixer but even he can’t fix that.
Nadal is a thoroughly good bloke, he should retire now rather than fade away, the light that burns twice as bright lasts half as long etc

Ah yes, just what I was after, more innuendo.

I’m not convinced at the Nadal stuff. He is big for a tennis player, but he’s not “big”. Serena on the other hand is HUGE by almost any measure in womens sports. She has the definition and the muscle mass.

I take the point about some black people being well disposed towards muscle gain, but this is waaaaaay beyond that.

Northwind – Member

Ah yes, just what I was after, more innuendo. You’re lucky he gave you that – the impetus to come up with something compelling lies with the one making the unusual argument. That would be you.

Saying you don’t know one way or the other is not some wise position of impartiality, it’s a statement that you think tennis is in some way completely different from other sports. Where athletes who have unusual physical changes and patterns of form, in a sport with a soft drug testing regime, with a huge amount on the line (more than athletics or cycling), aren’t taking PEDs.
If you love tennis, then it’s understandable why you might think that, as we all like special pleading for sports we’re emotionally invested in. You don’t appear to be a big tennis fan, though, so it’s a strange argument to make.

Garry_Lager – Member

You’re lucky he gave you that – the impetus to come up with something compelling lies with the one making the unusual argument. That would be you.

Er, no. The burden of proof is on the accuser. But that aside, the unusual argument here is the one that’s arrived at such a strong opinion with no more than nudging and winking. Oh and nonsense about body fat, as if Nadal could just eat some pies and have the accusations go away. “HOW CAN NADAL EAT PIES AND STILL WIN GAMES?”.

In the case of Williams, how likely is it that those champions of doping USADA are covering it up?

The doper argument is entirely built on special pleading so it’s a bit weird to throw that at me.

I wouldn’t need any performance enhancing drugs if I played this lass at mixed doubles……

Now that is innuendo.