Cut a long story short – guy buys a frame I had up on eBay. Sends money but says he's from Latvia and can I deliver to a UK address instead. Then I get another email saying his buddy won't be in the UK for a while, can I post to Latvia.

He's already paid by Paypal. I've still got the frame but smelling a bit of a rat here.

If I just refund his money and tell him politely to get lost will magically in a months time Mr Paypal come sniffing saying the payment has gone bang and they want the money back even though I've already refunded his dodgy money back so it should balance out?

Basically am I already shafted when he paid regardless? I send the frame and it magically disappears, or I refund and his money bounces, but my refund doesn't?

And yes, all non-UK countries are now banned from any of my eBay sales now.

Transfer the money to your bank account then send the frame recorded,what?

Transfer money to bank account then don't send frame anywhere, get in there first, haha! 😉

I was half tempted to say I've sent the frame then refund in a couple of weeks when he says it hasn't turned up!

If you refund it (make sure you report to ebay to avoid fees), how would paypal get back to you?

Tell the guy to **** off, then refund him, he can't leave negative for you anymore. Explain you aren't prepared to ship to Latvia, I assume your P&P description wasn't "anywhere in the world"?

I tried to sell a dog cage a year or two ago, for local pick up, and some guy in London won, paid, then asked "how do we arrange delivery?". I just told him collection only, here's a refund, see the wording in my auction.

I don't follow this- can't you just reject or refund the payment and explain that you won't post the item outside the UK? Why would there be a problem with this, other than a potential negative for you at ebay?

I don't understand what has he done that is dodgy apart from your assumption that because he comes from Latvia he is a crook.

Tell the muppet to come and collect it. Just keep the money and say owt.

I don't understand what has he done that is dodgy apart from your assumption that because he comes from Latvia he is a crook.

It's a classic – get the seller to post the frame somewhere (far away so they won't come looking), then days/weeks/months later the payment bounces and the seller is left out of pocket.

The whole 'my mate's in the UK so it's ok – oh wait he's gone so you'll have to post" is just meant to reassure that he has legitimate intentions.

Refund, report to ebay.

101% classic scam. If you send the frame, you'll lose the frame and the cash. Report it to ebay.

Friend of mine gets this pretty much every time he tries selling electronic kit, almost always Latvia or Lithuania.

I wouldn't risk it. I sold to someone in Portugal and they reversed the transaction.

Luckily I claimed on the postage as the tracking was so poor RM were unable to identify if it had been delivered or not. My suspicion is that it had and he got his cash back, but equally it could have been legit.

If you do go ahead get tracked and insured

For info to people questioning how people can scam you when you already got the Paypal funds in the 'bank – there's such thing as a Paypal cargeback, basically the scammer uses a credit card to fund the paypal payment. He gets the goods, then tells the credit card company that it was an unauthorised use of the card (or he's not received the goods, plus a few other ways), then the credit card people demand the money back of paypal who then take it off the poor punter. They don't absorb the cost, and wipe their hands of it saying it's a credit card company decision. You suddenly end up without goods or the money.

Ed2001 – just for info, I wasn't suggesting all Latvians are scammers, he just happens to be from Latvia and is telling me a good yarn.

Anyway, Latvia is £100 postage including insurance from Parcelforce and I ain't running round finding deals for him, so refund it will be.

Ah, checked the paypal rules on charge back – if I provide a valid proof of refund (ie paypal refund) then they won't come looking for me. Jobs a good 'un.

How does a payment through paypal bounce months later? I am genuinely interested to know as I do sometimes use ebAY and always accept paypal.

1. Put the money in your bank account. So it's safe and you know it is actually there.

2. Find a cost for shipping to the address he's given you in Latvia.

3. Tell him that as he now needs the frame shipping abroad will be X. If he still wants it then he needs to add the extra cash. If not you will refund him the cost minus an admin fee.

4. Tell eBay all of your actions and reasons. It seems reasonable to me and should do to them to.

i rarely use ebay but i dont get this, if the guy pays up front into your ebay account, how does it bounce? or leave your account? surely if you have paid you then cant just un pay?, makes a mockery of the system otherwise?
hmm just read breatheasy example.. crazy world

Thanks this thread has been educational. I will watch out for this scam. Bloody Latvians 😆

Even if you transfer the money straight into your bank account, if a reversal is done then PayPal will give you a negative balance and send their heavies after you to get the money back.

Can they legally do that? Presumably. Refund this bloke and relist. Sounds like a scam to me.

Even if you transfer the money straight into your bank account, if a reversal is done then PayPal will give you a negative balance and send their heavies after you to get the money back.

Yes, I've had the legal recovery letters from ebay following me withdrawing the cash and them reversing the transaction. Not sure how much weight they hold with the credit reference agencies, but for sure I couldn't use ebay for 6 months whilst I tried to get the cash out of RM

Tell him to get lost. Ban him from using your auctions too.

Yep, all non-UK buyers now blocked from my auctions.

Maybe a bit harsh of Paypal if everyone is worried, though you do have to send it signed-for and no doubt a few other caveats (probably like confirmed addresses). If you do everything their way then they'll probably see in your favour but it does make you think….

surely if you have paid you then cant just un pay?

That's the thing. The scammer *can* file a dispute, with pretty much any excuse (not delivered despite Royal Mail saying otherwise, arrived damaged, etc.) . Paypal automatically take the money back from you as the seller. Paypal only want a reciept showing the buyer posted something, before they release the payment back to them.

One reason why I refuse to use ebay, paypal, gumtree,… unless the buyer collects in person and we go to the cash machine and I watch him take the money out there and then and hand it over to me with no sleight of hand.