Hardtail to Gravel Bike conversion?

Got a nice hardtail in the shed, Scott Scale 920, but tend to use my Trek Top Fuel mostly for ‘proper’ mountain biking at bike parks and such like.

I’ve also got a nice Cannondale Topstone which I use for gravel type riding and press into service as my winter bike with a change of wheels/tyres.

So, yesterday I rode about 1/3rd of the East Devon Trail, Budleigh to Lyme Regis, mixture of tarmac, single track and a bit of rough stiff. Some savage hills, 20+% in places. Topstone was the wrong bike. 38mm tyres and gearing of 36 x 11/40 on the Topstone. Overgeared, tyres too thin and bars not wide enough.

I could fitter wider tyres but changing the gearing would be a faff. Smaller front ring would work but then I’ve ruined it for the times when I use it as a road bike.

Came to conclusion my hardtail, with a few mods, would be a better option. Might want to add some bar ends for more hand positions/comfort and take off the Mezcal/Barzo tyres for something more ‘all rounder’.

Anyone else been down this route? Suggestions on tyres? Anything else to think about?

Bar ends, maybe TOGS too, I like Bontrager tyres, XR1/XR2, comfier bars with some sweep/rise?

Your Scott Scale is 90% there IMO – I’d swap out for some rigid carbon forks.  Your tyres are pretty fast rolling, so I’d stick with them.

A rigid 29er mtb is way more versatile than a drop bar gravel bike with narrow tyres IMO.

Is bikepacking going back to it’s roots, rigid MTB with racks for the rough bits ?

https://en.brujulabike.com/scott-scale-gravel-mtb-new-range/

All the bikepacking bags are evolving given the way racks are the big thing now,it’s almost as if we are heading back to the nineties. The weigh of a light rack still appears to be a no no for the week end bikepacking mob .

I think an XC/Light HT makes a good ‘Gravel-Plus’ bike.

I’ve a Ti gravel bike, which is great and fast on road / easy off-road. But even with 40/42 tyres, suffers when things get remotely chunky.

I’ve also a Ti trail HT. Mostly runs with a Pike and trail wheels/rubber,  but with a carbon rigid fork, lighter XC wheels and 2.2/2.3 XR2/3 tyres, is very nearly as quick as the gravel bike overall, and significantly more comfortable/capable as the off-road gets more chunky.

It was great for the North Yorks Moors 300 I did 3 weeks back.

For my recent bikepacking trip (Dorset 330) I fitted some cheap bar ends (short) to my rigid mtb and fitted them just inside of the brake levers, gives you a similar position to being on the hoods of a drop bar bike and can brake/use the gear shifter without much hand movement. Plus they dont get caught up in overhanging brambles/nettles etc that risk yanking the bars.

Thunderburt tyres (rear with an insert) are spot on too.

Don’t want to rain on your parade but are you doing enough of this riding to justify the spend?

I had a gravel bike, it didn’t work for me.

I have a ridgid MTB with a rack and 50c tires as a comutter bike, it’s not super fun on singletrack.

So it’s back to my hardtail for gravel. The inside thumb bar ends are good for another hand position.

I don’t ride 100’s of gravel miles so the suspension fork that can be locked out is perfect for me

Money no object it would have a double chainset. It’s fine as it is.

Id change your tires and fit some bar ends for extra hand positions

I had a proper carbon gravel bike but didn’t really get on with it. As soon as I sold it I missed it so decided to covert my old 1993 26″ steel rigid MTB. I started by welding disc mounts to the frame and bought a quill stem adapter to run modern stems and bars. The rest of the build is just stuff from various spares bins. Initially I tried 29″ wheels but could only (just) fit 37mm tyres. So i now have 27.5 wheels and 47mm tyres. Much better. I finally gave it a run today on forestry tracks and easy sigletrack and it handled it all with great aplomb. Need to try it on asphalt now. Also not sure whether to leave in old skool 90s colour scheme or give it a respray.

EDIT: Is it me or does the photo uploader no longer work?

try again..

Nope

Try something different

There’s a facebook group for this – it came up on my recommendations list this morning.

There’s a facebook group for this – it came up on my recommendations list this morning.

There is, but it won’t let me join. You have to state what bike you’re using and I guess mine isn’t the right niche for their moderators.

The Scale920 is a nice hardtail.. I’d change the tyres to something like Thunderburts, run them hard and see what you think you need to change after that.

29″ wheels roll way better than 26 so no advantage getting an old hardtail for this

Depends on what you mean by gravel? Racing, Easy offroad or bikepacking?

In any case start cheap/simple and work from there. Tyres in the first instance. Then as you suggest something to give different hand positions. Ergon do some grips with stuby ends build in. Or those things mentioned above that go in board. After that I’d (personally) look at bars. Your modern mtb bar is very wide. On my commuter I found a cut down bar much more convenient It is probably 500-600mm? A bit wider than a road bar.

Forks you could do, it saves a chunk of weight but it starts to get quite expensive at that point.

How’s your gearing? You said the gravel bike was a bit much but I find the opposite on my mtb when it’s easy terrain. Don’t need the full spread and spend a lot of time in the smaller sprockets. A bigger chainring might be worth considering.

our modern mtb bar is very wide. On my commuter I found a cut down bar much more convenient It is probably 500-600mm? A bit wider than a road bar.

Yes, bars make a lot of difference to how a bike feels.  I use a 560mm bar on my rigid MTB and because it is very old the body position is pretty much like a gravel bike so only really down to preference of drops/hoods vs narrow flat bars.  With the same tyres there really isn’t that much difference between my old MTB and a gravel bike as far as riding goes.

Fit a 11-51 cassette, should be cheaper than a new bike

I never replied to this, my apologies, but thanks for replies.

I’ll convert my Topstone back to 2x drivetrain, but low gearing, and use it as a winter/touring bike, but it could still be pressed into service for the Leadville* 100 (joke).

I’ll consider my hard tail to be my gravel bike as at the speeds I go it’s all I realistically need. Would need to do something about bar comfort, couple of hours arm discomfort gets a bit much.

Second set of wheels with 45mm Gravel King tyres, or similar, narrower bars with bar ends, and some rigid forks if I can stumble over something cheap. Tail fin rack when neede.

I rode the HotNC last week (on my Scott), gravel/hard tail riders about a 50/50 split. Terrain mostly suited a gravel bike, might have been different in the wet, but a suspended  ‘graveltail’ would have covered it better.

*I read that some of the hotshots rode the Leadville with dropbar hard tails this year. It’s all getting a bit confusing!

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/tech/gravel-pros-drop-bar-mountain-bikes

Smaller front ring would work but then I’ve ruined it for the times when I use it as a road bike.

Yep, 2x for the win, someone has pulled a marketing blinder convincing us that 1x is somehow more versatile.

But I share your quandary, I’ve got a very nice Superfly 29er from 10 years ago, rides reasonably light, and with a set of Terreno XC or Mezcals it rolls well too. The 1x gearing and the (as yet unresolved) handlebar setup is all that puts me off using it for longer or more rolling routes, but I’ve plotted a few shorter routes which are a sort if gravel equivalent to winch and plummet which I think it will be ideal for.

TLDR: stick some faster tyres on and just try to limit faster/flatter sections of tarmac?

Would need to do something about bar comfort, couple of hours arm discomfort gets a bit much.

I’m using the Sonder Scope handle bar with 15 degree backsweep on my Cascade. I didn’t like it ith drops* so went back to flat bars and after trying normal MTB bars and On one OG bars the Scope seems a nice in the middle comfy bar. Keep meaning to fit some inboard bar ends for extra hand position….

Worth looking at other alt bars as well though for different styles.

*I had Funn G-Wides and think I’d probably have been better with some slightly narrower and less pronouced drop.

and some rigid forks if I can stumble over something cheap

I have both a Topstone (650×47) and a Ti hardtail. The latter has an option of 27.5×3 or 29×2.1 tyres, and also an option of Rebas or carbon rigid forks. TBH if the route is suitable for the rigid forks and 2.1″ tyres then I’d rather take the Topstone. I considered the Lefty version of the Topstone but then I think I’d just use the hardtail.

Rigid hairtails are great – they’re fast, light and simple. They’re less fragile than gravel bikes and a bit more comfortable in my opinion.

Got 2.35 XC tyres on mine and plenty fast rolling and comfier than gravel tyres – and not as sketchy when you do find some single-track.

I’ve spent the last 4-5 years going round the houses with gravel bike in many guises, and XC bike in various trim and rigid/HT. All for riding mixed terrain on varying degrees of difficulty.  I basically got bored of the gravel bike compromises in the end, and prefer the compromises from a rigid or HT 29er, built up fairly light. I prefer mixed terrain rides to have a decent amount of off road, and the XC HT (or rigid) covers that so well. My gravel bike is now for mainly road based / lower proportion of off road and it’s good for that.

Your Scott is the ideal machine already, just change tyres to more XC speed, maybe not semi-slicks like thunder Burts though. Mezcals/XR2’s always a good shout for speed yet comfort and decent enough capability. Alt-bars with some decent sweep and inner bar end all a good shout. Whatever you do, don’t gravel-ify your xc bike, as you’ll just make the XC bike inherit the shortcomings you already identified on your Topstone. Don’t get narrow flat bars, don’t get skinnier tires and pump them up hard. The trade off will be less tarmac speed, but more enjoyment of the off road sections, and more comfort overall. Rigid mtb fork is a good shout, but if you’ve already got a 100mm fork with lockout for instance, then nothing wrong with just using that?

Your Scale frame is probably lighter than your Topstone frame so could end up a lighter build, even with bigger tyres.

I’d have a play with a bike geometry calculator to try and get your Scale geometry closer to a gravel dropbar bike. Lower bottom bracket, shorter reach, lower bars…..

Bike Geometry Calculator

You could fit a rigid fork to reduce the drop at the front and make the bike handle a bit quicker. Or just reduce the travel to something like 80mm.

Chop your bars down, fit bar ends and inboard barends to get more hand positions and make it a bit more aero. I’d avoid changing to drop bars as the reach might not be great (mtbs usually have longer toptubes) and the shifters are pricey.

Fit a pair of Thunder Burts and you’ve got yourself a rapid gravel machine.

I reckon that a fair bit of issues folks have with gravel type bikes being ‘underbiked’ is mostly tyre pressure. I rode the Dirty Reiver route around Kielder the weekend with bike packing kit on 40mm treaded gravel tyres at 30-35psi and it was great. Didn’t feel beat up after. But when I searched for advice on the best tyre and bike setup for Kielder, there were people recommending 60psi. That would have felt quicker on the smooth bits I’m sure, but would have been brutal over the whole route. Even though most the gravel trails there were in pretty good condition.

So I’d maybe also say, try the following on your Topstone first:

• Fit an oval chainring to help with lower gearing, I have a 38t oval ring on mine and I really can feel it making a difference on the steep climbs.
• Fit thicker bar tape
• Fit the bigger tubeless tyres you can in your frame.
• Run your tyres tubeless
• Reduce the psi in your tyres. I find 5 psi difference can have a decent affect on how much vibration I feel through the bars and how much grip I have.
• Check your fit on the bike, so you’re riding with a slight bend in your elbows, a slightly shorter stem or higher bars could really make a difference. I’ve seen a few folk riding dropbar bikes over the years with locked out straight arms, this will be very uncomfortable after a while.

PSI: Tyre pressure calculator https://silca.cc/en-gb/pages/pro-tire-pressure-calculator

50mm Maxxis Rambler tyres and double chainring 2×11 on my rigid hardtail and I have a 90% good enough gravel bike.
Just done the Lincoln Gravel Imp overnighter and it was perfect for that.

I got a speshi diverge a couple of years ago for gravel rides and fun from the doorstep, and it the worse bike I’ve ever had, constantly something breaks, going back again tomorrow for the futureshock issues, but it’s very good on the road, as fast as my road bike but point it off road while it can do it I’m too nervous on it and it’s twitchy.

So my work commuter is now a procaliber and I use that instead of the diverge if I’m going to do something other than road, yes it’s a little slower but im so much happier and I feel like it’s been a much more fun ride.

so you’re riding with a slight bend in your elbows

This should be the #1 suggestion. Almost every gravel (and road) rider I see has their elbows locked out. I reckon it’s that so few do any sort of core body exercise so are unable to sit up without the support of their arms. No wonder they then complain about a harsh ride, sore hands/wrists etc.

I recently mused about gravelling my Mk1 Solaris but retaining the 100mm Reba – Think poor mans Cascade.

I’ve paused plans at the moment to do a full strip and rebuild but in the interim I fitted a narrower bar (720mm), some lovely Ergon grips with integrated carbon bar ends (sadly discontinued) and a 38T Oval chainring.

The bike was already built up as an XC bike so has 2.25” Peyote tyres and a reasonably light (for me) build.

I had my first ride out on Sunday. It’s slower than my “proper gravel” bike on the road sections but I enjoyed the comfort from a wider tyre and the suspension fork. The position of my hands on the barends was very hood like albeit wider. A bar mounted fork lockout was a good addition.

There is only a 5mm spacer under the stem and I have a negative rise stem so the front end is quite low but no lower, when the fork is locked out, than the hoods on my Fearless.

Makes me think a Cascade would be a great bike with a 100mm fork if it would take a larger chainring.

Fitted drop bars to my Surly Karate Monkey and lovin it.

@muke … that looks great.

Came to conclusion my hardtail, with a few mods, would be a better option. Might want to add some bar ends for more hand positions/comfort and take off the Mezcal/Barzo tyres for something more ‘all rounder’.

Yes, this. I came to the same conclusion a couple of years ago. Bar ends in the middle of my bars and Continental Race King Protections are what you need. Even grav racers are using Race Kings on their grav bikes now. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7pim7oOwIc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

I converted a 2016 Cube xc bike over a year ago.

Short old school reach, I have actually put a longer higher stem on since this photo which really helps with standing climbing. light manitou 100mm suspension with two stage lock out. Superstar slackeriser added as it is a very straight fork. USE vibe seatpost. It works really well and sub 11kg