Hardtail Choices

Been done to death, I know, but. I would like a hardtail frame and am intending to put all the stuff from my 140mm full sus on it. Needs to be capable of everything including some long training rides i.e. I like going uphill and long distances as well as descending.

Currently trying to decide between a Stanton Switch9er, Pipedream Moxie or Bird Forge. Stanton looks like the most conservative geometry, which might suit me fine as more of an all rounder. Bird looks like the middle ground, and Pipedream the most ‘progressive’ with a much steeper seat angle.

Any thoughts, recommendations and words of wisdom?

I’d go Bird forge with the blingy paint if it were me I think. Uses a bit of 853 tubing (to tube and downtube)  and Bird have always been really great with customer service. Geometry is also decent as ever.

add the Cotic BFeMax to the list – will definitely do the downs and people do use them for longer rides

I was in a similar position with these exact three frames. I’m pretty sure all are good choices with minimal differences.

Personally, I ruled out the Stanton due to the combination of very short chain stays and slacker angle seat tube – fine on the flats and downs, but something I don’t like on steep seated climbs.

Nearly pulled the trigger on the Forge a few times, but the very low bottom bracket (with 140mm fork), a review saying the Moxie was the slightly more supple of the two and several people/reviews just waxing lyrical about the hard to define, special something the Moxie frame has, sent me in that direction. Hard to speak for anyone else’s needs and preferences, but I absolutely love my Moxie.

For reference:

NBD/M/Y – Neverending Moxie Build

I run my bfemax at 140mm, have two sets of wheels. Ex511 rims with big heavy tyres for racing and fast days. Then a lighter a trail wheel set with more xc tyres for big days out. It handles it fairly well.
would highly recommend one!

Another bit of interesting Moxie info I read recently, was this review on bikepacking.com. I’m no bike packer, but it’s well written and I found the opinions of a rider coming at it from a different world fascinating.

Pipedream Moxie Review: Checks You Can Cash

Get the Stanton in Ti it’s noticeable.

I really like the colour of the Bird, plus seem great afterservice company.

Am I right in saying the Moxie (like most Pipedreams) has a one set length of headtube on all the sizes. This for me is an issue a the taller end of the scale. YHMV.

hardtail frame

140mm

capable of everything including some long training rides i.e. I like going uphill and long distances as well as descending.

all rounder

Production Privée Shan GT

#stwrecommendwhatyouhave

Is the Zero 29 lighter than the Forge. I have one and love it. Do everything on it, long rides and Enduro. I have a proper mince tank for Enduro but prefer the Zero most of the time.

New pace 529 worth adding to the shortlist?

Ooft, lots of good shouts there. Will read the pipedream review. Not sure if it matters but Pace specifically state using a fork with 44 offset, and I’ll be using my existing form with 51, which kind of put me off a bit.

DDecided I can’t commit to a new fork right now so need something that’ll work with what I have.

Production Privée Shan GT

#stwrecommendwhatyouhave

A beautifully finished, but out of date geometry bike on its release, let alone now.

Unless it’s been revised since? I ought to look I suppose.

The Moxie’s seat angle isn’t as steep as the chart claims – it’s good for long rolling XC rides, not just winch and plummet (which would be the case if it was really 77.5 static).

I have a Bird Forge and it’s taking over my Summer. What a bike! I’m picking it every ride over the two full sussers I have.

Re the low BB: just go for shorter cranks. When you take it to somewhere berm-tastic like Tarland2 it will make sense.

Summary: get the Forge. 853 is great or stainless for bling.

Anybody know what rack that is on the Moxie in that review?

Pipedream Moxie Review: Checks You Can Cash

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/iaHPvNn7igvzgEXQ/?mibextid=WC7FNe

Bird are running an open day at Eversley next Saturday 10th August

Anybody know what rack that is on the Moxie in that review?

No idea,but looks not unlike the Blackburn and P-clip bodge that I made for my last trip.

#racksRback

Can definitely recommend the Cotic BFeMax.
I use it in exactly the same way as you intend to and it’s ace.
I noticed Cotic have pulled them so you’d need to buy second hand.

@montgomery – usually on Bikepacking.com it’s the “Old Man Mountain” rack or variation of one.

Stif squatch suits all the criteria.

But those mentioned so far all do too

I did the same with you with my 140mm full sus parts and transferred them to a Ragley Marley frame – great fun bike for riding just about everything. The geometry is closest to the Stanton.

I like a 65 degree head angle for general purpose riding. Less than that can become a bit of a handful in tighter turns.

Think I’m being swayed to the Forge, though I reckon anything that’s been mentioned so far is probably great.

I’m 5’8 and thinking probably the medium Forge. Sound about right?

usually on Bikepacking.com it’s the “Old Man Mountain” rack or variation of one

No, it looks a bit like an elkhorn but lacks the triangulation and isn’t mounted on the axle. I’ve been using OMM racks for 20+ years, they’re good, but that one in the Moxie review is exactly what I’m after. I know Cass, I’ll ask him.

Apologies for the thread hijack.

vww – being 6’2″ myself, I’ve got no frame of reference for sizing at your height, but I think you’ll be very happy with a Forge.

montgomery – the the rack info is in the comments at the bottom of the article. Seems to be standard practice for all articles on that site to descend into rack and back chatter after the review.

Another vote for Pace, I love my 627. They’re really well made and finished too.

Wouldn’t worry about fork offset, it makes hardly any difference. My full suss is made for 44mm but I run it with 51mm. It’s fine.

Sonder Signal ST I’ve got.

I must say, it’s bally splendid!

Shameless plug … I have a Mason raw for sale ?

Bit leftfield but I have a Titus Loco Moto- the titanium Hello Dave basically. And you look at it and think “that is not an allrounder”, it’s hilariously long and slack. But as long as you’re comfortable with the length of it, it all works really well and ends up having a really unintuitively balanced feel, I’ve used it for some decent size road stretches, for simple xc, I’ll be using it for an xc race next month… It’s honestly as good an allrounder as my solarismax was. (the Dave is pretty heavy, mind you, the lightness of the Moto definitely helps it work as an allrounder)

Before this I felt the same about the old Ragleys, they were really slack for their day but in the end made for a completely sensible normal everyday bike.

I can’t imagine you’d go far wrong with anything suggested so far.

FWIW I’ve got a Forge and love it. Mate’s got a Pipedream and loves it (insists it’s the best bike he’s ever had). I very nearly went for a Stanton and my ancient 26″ Cotic Soul remains one of my favourite bikes of all time.

Go figure. Proper, nice steel hardtail bikes are lovely things. I’m sure you’ll enjoy whichever you go with.