Hardcore hardtail vs Downcountry FS?

It’s uncool 650b and 5-6 year old geo, but my Cotic Flare seems to do what the OP wants, I’d been riding various hardtails for years on natural trails and techy stuff in my local woods (not particularly fast and mostly wheels on the ground), Cotoc Soul, Genesis, XC bikes, but wanted a bit more composure and security. With the rebound wound up the Flare feels like a hardtail most of the time, is nice and direct, but lively and compensates for my lack of skill as (often required). I’m running a 130mm fork, but could go 140mm.

If you want a 29er, then a Cotic FlareMAX could just be the answer.

Brilliant timing for their sale

I like my hardtail which is sort of hardcore (although not right at the hardcore end) – steel / 140mm Pike / Codes etc. 65 degree headangle / 445mm reach / 425mm cs and fits a big dropper (I’m 5’9). But it has its limits – mainly that over rougher rides it beats you up more than my fs.

From what you say it sounds like a trail bike is a good option to consider – the likes of a Norco Optic / Spectral 125 / Bird Aether 9 / Nukeproof Reactor etc. They’ll take that bit more abuse than a Spur / Epic Evo etc – but still pedal decently. I’ve ridden an Aether 7 round Surrey Hills on one occasion and it felt just right for a mixture of flow to tech trails.

A mate of mine is selling an Orange Stage 4, if you’re the right size:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2470806443077472/

A mate of mine is selling an Orange Stage 4, if you’re the right size:

Nice, I recognise that from my Instagram.

Same size as mine (just sold), stick a -2deg headset in there and it’s very close to a medium Stage Evo.

Superb fun bike for a hardtail fan.

As you (OP) are currently on a more aggressive hardtail with a 150mm fork, I suspect a true ‘down country FS maybe a more ‘under-biked’ than your current setup. It’s amazing how much your legs can absorb, it just gets a bit tiring, especially if you pedal across/up a lot of roots terrain, as in the Surrey hills. I’d suggest a 125-140mm travel fs trail bike sounds more suited to your requirements.
Like you, I had a 150mm travel forked Hardtail, but found it quite tiring around Surrey’s undulating rooty trails, I ended up swapping the frame for a 130mm travel trail bike with a 140mm fork, specifically a SC 5010. If find it to be pretty much in the sweet spot, slack and squishy enough for the steeper rough trails but also light and lively enough for the undulating flowy ones and the climbs. Great on old school XC loops too, especially with some faster rubber.
I’m not saying the 5010 is the one to go for, but something similar in that trail bike category would suit, depending on which wheel size you prefer.

Thank you all for your input on this. It seems the general consensus is that a 120mm fork probably won’t be enough but might be enough at the rear.

I’m not in any great rush to migrate from the HT but will keep my eyes peeled for demo opportunities for bikes in the “hardcore downcountry” genre that seems to suit my needs best.

Thank you all for your input on this. It seems the general consensus is that a 120mm fork probably won’t be enough but might be enough at the rear.

I’m not in any great rush to migrate from the HT but will keep my eyes peeled for demo opportunities for bikes in the “hardcore downcountry” genre that seems to suit my needs best.

Mostly I think you need to decide what tickles you most… comfort vs fun etc. and how much breaking it is going to affect you.

SH divides up into 99% doable on a HC HT and 1% possibly doable on a DH bike if you’re stupid/need social media views how much of that 99% is doable on a “downcountry” depends how much you value your frame and wheels and how much its a short travel trail vs long travel XC but there is certainly a lot (features not % of trails) I’d not do on my XC bike and not expect it to snap in 1/2 or the wheels just fold up that I’d do/have done on my play 26er with 100mm fork (and I’ve seen Pure Darkness and Indian Summer done on a 80mm elastomer fork).

My fastest (only) recorded time on BkB is clipped in on the 100mm XC HT but I bypassed the drop in as I fully expect the chainstays would just snap… and if they didn’t then the wheel would probably just fold up. I don’t usually bother timing anything but a mate got obsessed timing it.

On the other hand I’d put money Bo-JtB is faster and comfier on a downcountry with the uphill bits, especially the rooty uphill part.

95% of the time (or more) I don’t take the XC bike to SH because it limits what I can ride without worrying its going to break not because of the travel. When I cycle from home that adds another 30 miles or so I still mostly take the steel HT as then I can ride what I want not what the bike can take.

Akers

I suspect a true ‘down country FS maybe a more ‘under-biked’ than your current setup. It’s amazing how much your legs can absorb, it just gets a bit tiring, especially if you pedal across/up a lot of roots terrain, as in the Surrey hills. I’d suggest a 125-140mm travel fs trail bike sounds more suited to your requirements.

This … ^^^