Good News At Last

The removal of the necessity defense was a political act of interference from a politican

From a democratically elected politician and passed by a vote in Parliament. That’s the way this whole democracy lark works,

We have to deal with the world as it is, rather than how we’d like it to de, particularly when talking about laws and rules. Everything must be universal and apply to everyone, or it’s worthless

If you want to see what the alternative looks like, with genuine interference in individual cases, then this gives something of a perspective

Russia jails US journalist Gershkovich for 16 years

“Lammy sticks out like a sore thumb in comparison.”

I agree. I am confident the others would not have thought Henry VII came after Henry VIII.

Having read the judgement I realised I chose the wrong thread title. As it was a Sun journalist that infiltrated the zoom call then reported it to the police the thread should have been titled “Gotcha!”

Chris Packham and Dale Vince:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/19/just-stop-oil-tactics-prison-chris-packham

passed by a vote in Parliament

That’s just it the removal of the defence was not passed by parliament it was enacted using Henry VIII rules, there was no scrutiny.

as sandwich says so very democratic.

If the government banned Greggs would you just accept it?

The lengthy multi-year sentences handed to Just Stop Oil activists are “not acceptable in a democracy”, a UN special rapporteur has said, as the government faced growing pressure to reverse the previous administration’s “hardline anti-protest” approach.

Michel Forst, the UN special rapporteur for environmental defenders, joined a growing chorus of voices condemning the sentences handed down to the five defendants for planning non-violent protests on the M25.

A host of human rights campaigners joined Forst in decrying the sentences. Sam Grant, director of advocacy at Liberty, said what appeared to be a trend for increasingly severe sentences for non-violent protest indicated “a grave erosion of … freedoms” in the UK. Hanna Hindstrom, who investigates rights abuses against environmental defenders for Global Witness, said the “incredibly harsh” sentences were “a profound injustice”.

And Tom Southerden, Amnesty International UK’s human rights adviser, called on the government to repeal the portions of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 that legislated the statutory offence of public nuisance used against the defendants.

@irc, thanks for throwing up the Judge’s summing up. I was wrong; they didn’t get a longer sentence for arsing about in court, but it makes for more balanced reading that this thread at least.

If you want to see what the alternative looks like

Thats the point – what we saw this week was a long way down the road to that alternative.

(The title of this thread is disgusting, the threat we face is closer to home than Moscow)

A first past the post democracy works because the policies and laws they enact are resonable and proportionate. The last Tory Government did not think laws oe decent standards applied to them and some of their Covid practices and behaviour was corrupt and illegal. The using of draconian laws and sentences to imprison people for legitimate peaceful protest is plain wrong.

The last government passed laws which undermined individuals rights to protest and this is not part of a democracy. The dragging of the goverment by various members of the Tory right is not what most people voted for.

The homeless were fortunate that they didn’t make some nasty laws to stop rough sleeping.

I agree with @fasgadh these prosecutions would attact howls of protest if they happened in Russia or China.

I agree with all of that.

I just like winding TJ up 😀

The Edinburgh defence again so soon binners?

The point is it wasn’t legitimate protest. That is why they were convicted. Legitimate protest would be things like marches and rallies.

The danger there being poor  attendance  might demonstrate the true level of support they have in the wider public.

So standing outside a oil terminal with a slogan on a bit of cardboard is not legitimate protest? You can be jailed for that. When we confronted the NF and BNP that wasn’t a march or rally but it needed doing. Now some of their abhorent facist views seem to be shared by sections of the Tory party.

I suspect the disproportionately harsh sentences will have the opposite effect to that intended by the establishment.

This is what usually happens when the intellectual and moral balance of power lies with those punished.
It’s clear to anyone with any intelligence that the protesters cause is far more important than a bit of disruption and a few missed flights, no matter how irritating that might be to individuals and that the protests to come will turn violent. I fully expect innocent people will lose their lives in protest situations before humanity starts to realise climate change is an existential threat. Of course by that point many many more innocent people will have died through direct consequences of actual climate change…..

IRC – under this draconian law any protest that inconveniences anyone can be prosecuted.    From attempting to stop the BNP from marching to a march or demo on any subject.

All protest is now illegal in the UK unless it has zero effect.

the CND marches, greenham common, – all now punishable by long jail tgerms

The point is it wasn’t legitimate protest

Do you think the Colston protest in Bristol was legitimate?

Exactly.

if peaceful protest is now illegal and punished by lengthy sentences why not just go straight for violent protest – what you got to lose?

The point is it wasn’t legitimate protest. That is why they were convicted.

I’d have another read of the court transcripts that you’ve posted. That isn’t why they were convicted.

Just to lighten this thread up a bit….fun fact about Extinction Rebellion….their inaugural meeting was at a church in Macclesfield. Such an unlikely place for a movement like this to first meet!

winston

Free Member

I suspect the disproportionately harsh sentences will have the opposite effect to that intended by the establishment.

You mean the endless headlines created by the campaigns to have them released or the five page threads on social media forums?

@ernielynch No. I mean the letter-bombs.

Seems it was a JSO insider who leaked the zoom call to The Sun.

“The story had begun almost two years ago when a concerned whistleblower from JSO contacted me, prompted by a genuine fear that lives were at stake.Arrangements were made for me to infiltrate a closely guarded JSO meeting at which I listened in amazement and horror as plans were set out to bring the M25 to a halt.

“”The plan is to block the M25 between now and 2023.“It’ll be daily and go on for the rest of the year.””

Seems Hallam enjoys jail anyway according to the article.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/29351268/undercover-just-stop-oil-plot-m25/

Nobody will be jailed for standing somewhere holding a placard. This was a plan for prolonged huge disruption. Sentences well deserved.

No. I mean the letter-bombs.

Much less likely imo

Sentences well deserved.

Do you think the Colston protest in Bristol was legitimate?

Read the Guardian article linked above, an NHS GP was jailed for holding a placard outside an oil terminal.

The Sun ? Not a exactly credible and unbiased source.

Nobody will be jailed for standing somewhere holding a placard.

Under this law they can be if they inconvenience anyone in the slightest.  Peaceful protest is now banned in the UK

What an odius thread :-(.  Some sad colours being flown here 🙁

I think another sabbatical is in order, nothing changes here

RT

Ps might post a few tractors later 😉

In other news, leaving someone lying in the road appears to be relatively OK even if having a zoom convo about blocking one isn’t.

https://news.sky.com/story/driver-who-left-boy-7-to-die-in-road-after-crash-in-folkestone-given-suspended-prison-sentence-13179456?utm_content=buffer431bf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Ps might post a few tractors later 😉

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-80-tractors-disrupt-motorway-traffic-in-wales-as-farmers-protest-against-government-plans-13073088

Lock ’em up!

Sentences well deserved.

Just because you keep repeating it doesn’t mean it’s true.

How would you go about encouraging the public and government to realise that climate change is a serious problem that they’re a part of and start doing something about it?

So was that all the good news you had in mind irc or is there more?

There must be more surely?

Just because you keep repeating it doesn’t mean it’s true.

Doubling down is a classic response when limits of comprehension have been reached…

How about no droughts in India for the foreseeable future?

https://www.economist.com/asia/2024/07/18/climate-change-is-making-the-monsoon-more-dangerous

I guess @irc good news can be filed in the same bin as brexit benefits and paying multi-million pound bonuses to retain ‘talent’

No. I mean the letter-bombs.

I wouldn’t even mention that, the second they start violence they’ll be on the terrorist organisation list, that’s a whole different ball game to what’s happening now.

The point is it wasn’t legitimate protest. 

1 – they weren’t convicted of protesting

2 – peaceful protest is completely 100% legitimate in a functional democracy.

Our friend Irc is a piston heads regular and has enjoyed setting the cat amongst the pigeons as he said so on that forum.

Coming from that position you are bound to find it good news.

Maybe Irc should return under his bridge ?

2 – peaceful protest is completely 100% legitimate in a functional democracy.

Covered by the ECHR – that pesky thing that the last government wanted to withdraw from to bring us more into line with, er,  Russia and Belarus.

Serious question… Does anyone know where they’ll serve their sentences?

They’re not exactly terrorists, so will it be some Cat C open prison or will they get shoved in somewhere terrifying with all the hard cases?

I’d imagine that’s as much of an issue as the length of their sentences

IIRC you normally start in a general prison like Strangeways or Pentonville.  ( cat B?? ) After a part of your sentence you may be eligible for cat C or D  YOu may have more than one catergory in each prison complex