They’re not unbreakable

So they last forever as long as you don’t break them. Like most things then 🙂

My point was that stainless seems to be much more durable, and also cheaper. And lighter.

They might be easy to handle even for those who are 5’2 but not so good for people who are old or have grip problems etc.

My point was that stainless seems to be much more durable, and also cheaper. And lighter.

Of course it is but it’s not as good for casserole pans.

Drac – Moderator

Of course it is but it’s not as good for casserole pans.

Why not? 😕

Why not?

Stainless is a poor heat conductor, and there is probably a higher risk of burning the food/hot spots than with thick cast iron (which will act a bit like a heat sink and spread the heat away from the part directly over the burner on a hob. The properties of stainless mean it’s fine for just boiling a liquid (although if it’s poor quality with a thin base, the base will probably be prone to warping), but otherwise it works better in the sort of Tri-Ply pans that Tefal and some other manufacturers make, where the stainless is clad around a layer of aluminium (which is a better heat conductor). Some professional cookware manufacturers have a very thick disc of aluminium on the base of their stainless pans, to achieve the same thing.

The fact that you don’t see many stainless casserole dishes compared with cast iron suggests that they are not very suitable for that function (I don’t think I’ve ever seen an oval stainless casserole).

Apart from weight, the key weakness of cast iron is its brittle nature: drop it and it will probably break, unless you cushion its fall by dropping it onto your foot. It also does not like sudden extreme changes in temperature. It’s good practice to heat it up gradually, and don’t take it off the hob and plunge it straight into a washing up bowl: allow it to cool first.

If you stain the light interior enamel of a Le Creuset, I have read very successful reports of cleaning them with biological washing powder. As for staining stainless steel, I would suggest something like Oven Pride or Oven Mate (rather than sandpaper 😯 ).

What he said. Who sandpapers there pans? 😆

Don’t bother with a cast iron casserole, even the cheapest slow cooker will give you better results.

Don’t bother with a cast iron casserole, even the cheapest slow cooker will give you better results.

Don’t agree with this. We use both. The slow cooker if we’re out for the day and just want to chuck stuff in and leave it, and if we’re in the Le Creuset casserole dish. Get good results with the slow cooker, but better results with the le creuset. However I wouldn’t spend what it costs for a Le Creuset now. We got ours 10 years ago or so when they were cheaper than now. If I were buying one now I’d just get any cast iron dish – its cast iron at the end of the day and Le Creuset cast iron is no different to cheap cast iron. Bear in mind that cast iron is brittle and pretty weak. My dad cracked one just by dropping it on his tiled kitchen floor. Put a nice big juicy crack in the pan and shattered a couple of tiles too.

Nowt wrong with a bit of enamelled staining.

I blame Apple for all this premium pricing. Things were getting cheaper before Apple showed that with some clever marketing and leverage of branding you can bump up pricing and charge significant premiums on products. Now it’s happening to every product out there: outdoor clothing, plastic mountain bikes, supermarkets etc.

I second the vote for stainless.
We find that it burns casseroles less than a Le Creuset – our megapricey LeC cannot handle either jam or thick stews without burning. Even midpriced stainless pans seem to handle low slow cooking better than cast iron.
I do love my massive Lodge frying pan, though.

Their products do not have a vitreous enamel coating. The frying pans might be very good, since they can be seasoned instead, but I suspect they would not be very good casseroles: acidic sauces would react with the iron and taint the dish, they would probably inevitably rust (and so not last very long, never mind ‘forever’), and the wooden knobs would probably not survive prolonged use in an oven.

You do season them, then you just clean them with water. If they do go rusty, you re-season. Mine is a slow cooker that you can put in the oven. They do iron handles for going in the oven. I did find that the iron lids rusted quick with acidic sauces, but I’ve got the tagine-style one, which is ceramic. I dropped it once, it didn’t break (though the kitchen floor did!)

Le Creuset do a special liquid cleaner; works well on encrusted stains etc

Another reason for getting a cast iron dish is not just for casseroles and the like but a friend has a good bread recipe using these to cook it in. I can’t remember how tho at the mo lol.

Some professional cookware manufacturers have a very thick disc of aluminium on the base of their stainless pans, to achieve the same thing.

Cheap supermarket ones have that. Also cast iron is billed as being a slow heat conductor just as stainless is.

LeC pans are expensive and as we’ve seen on this thread have loads of caveats and are delicate. Waste of money IMO.

I had considered cast iron griddles, etc.

From the videos on YouTube, the re-seasoning looked pretty smoky, best done outdoors on a bbq.

I’ll persevere with my zebra billy can. Got mine from the bushcraft store, with the metal clips (important!)

I reversed one of the clips so that the lid doesn’t completely lock.

Laid horizontally, people have used them to make bread.

If I was to go for a proper casserole dish, then this would figure highly

GASTRO Premium Shallow Casserole Pot With Lid Stainless Steel Pan Induction Base (32 x 12 cm) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071RN5ZC8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_icdrAbP7BWN7C

Decisions, decisions…

Cheap supermarket ones have that.

Indeed, which just shows that sometimes cheap and cheerful is excellent, providing it is reasonably well manufactured and a good design (in this case, a design copied from professional products where the emphasis is on performance and value for money, not superficial aesthetics).

Also cast iron is billed as being a slow heat conductor just as stainless is.

In cookware cast iron exploits this property to turn it into a strength, but for stainless steel cookware it is usually a weakness (albeit one that can often be compensated for by using aluminium in a thick disc base or in a tri-ply construction).

Because cast iron cookware is cast, it is invariably thick and the products have a high thermal mass. That and the slow heat conduction means less likelihood of hot spots when used on a hob and of catching and burning the food, and very stable cooking temperatures (at the cost of low responsiveness to changing the heat input). Because of its high thermal mass, it is very good for high temperature frying/griddling of meat (because it holds so much heat energy, the temperature of the pan surface will not significantly drop [=’a bad thing’] when meat at room temperature is placed on it).

If stainless steel were used to make similarly thick/heavy cookware in the same way by casting, it would exhibit similar performance to cast iron, but I imagine that such products would be far more expensive than Le Creuset etc. and would simply not be commercially viable.

I had considered cast iron griddles, etc.

From the videos on YouTube, the re-seasoning looked pretty smoky, best done outdoors on a bbq.

Again, Le Creuset and Staub especially make cast iron griddles and frying pans with an enamel coating which does not require seasoning. If you want to use a cast iron pan (enamelled or not) for cooking eggs, then it would need seasoning to produce a non-stick coating, but that is not necessary for frying meat etc.

The fact that you don’t see many stainless casserole dishes compared with cast iron suggests that they are not very suitable for that function (I don’t think I’ve ever seen an oval stainless casserole).

They’re called saucepans. You’ve seen plenty. 🙂
You were probably put off the scent by their curious round shape and lack of overinflated price tag.
You won’t find many oval stainless pans firstly due to the method of manufacture and secondly because it’s the wrong shape.

They’re called saucepans. You’ve seen plenty.

Not of the same size/volume as a medium or larger cast iron casserole. I’m sure you could achieve adequate results with a saucepan providing you chose one with a metal handle which could fit in the oven, but above a certain size/weight it’s going to be very much less than ideal, especially given that it only has a handle on one side, unlike the two handles on any decent casserole.

You can get rondeau pans which have two handles to allow them to be easily used inside the oven as well as on the hob, but they may be shallower than a casserole, and they are unlikely to be cheaper than a similarly sized cast iron casserole.

You won’t find many oval stainless pans… because it’s the wrong shape.

Depends what you are cooking. For something like chicken or leg of lamb, oval will likely be better.

overinflated price tag

I would agree that Le Creuset has been very effective in marketing its products and exploiting its brand and reputation to increase the price which the market will bear, but as others have noted you can buy copies from the likes of Sainsbury’s for a lot less.

At the end of the day, if the performance of cast iron casseroles was not actually that great compared with using a stainless steel saucepan or a slow cooker, then in the longer term sales of the products (and prices of the Le Creuset versions) would be likely to fall. So far, that hasn’t happened. A lot of people, many of them far better cooks than me and probably you, are happy to put their money where their mouth is and are happy with the results.

In cookware cast iron exploits this property to turn it into a strength, but for stainless steel cookware it is usually a weakness

I try not to be overly sceptical on the whole but this is bollocks.

The mass and conductivity of your pans do affect what heat setting you use, but it makes no difference to the end result. Hotspots aren’t a problem, no matter what. The only issue I’ve had ever with heat in a pan is when using really thin bottomed cheapest of all pans, but even spending a tenner gets you a thickened alu base.

I’ve got LeC dishes, Stella SS pans and a couple of cheap Asda pans. The SS pans get used all the time. The LeC are a pita to use because you need both hands. The ONLY advantage is that you can cook on the hob and then transfer to the oven. I will do my Shepherd’s Pie in it shortly.

Not worth £100 though, no way. The Stella pans are 12 years old now and look the same as after their first use. The LeC enamel is scratched and chipped. SS requires less care and is therefore more durable. Also don’t break if you drop them.

while I don’t doubt you can make a nice stew with a Le Creuset pot, I find that stainless steel makes the kitchen come alive

I try not to be overly sceptical on the whole but this is bollocks.

The mass and conductivity of your pans do affect what heat setting you use, but it makes no difference to the end result. Hotspots aren’t a problem, no matter what.

Have a read of what the author of this book says about the subject. The relevant bit is free to view using Amazon’s ‘Look Inside’ function: scroll half way down down to ‘Essential Kitchen Gear’ and read as far as ‘How Buy and Care for a Wok’. The whole book is about taking a rigorous scientific/evidence/experiment based approach to cooking.

Yeah, that basically backs up what I’m saying. Most people should use stainless, and cast iron is a pain in the balls.

I have a cast iron frying pan, by the way, that’s not Le Creuset, and that’s ok for certain things. It was cheap, £15, and it’ll last forever. But you have to look after the ‘seasoning’ as cooking one tomato based sauce in it will strip it. Eggs can be cooked without sticking but only with a very specific detailed technique which ends up producing an omelette. Its main function is to sear steaks.

Plain cast iron I can appreciate for certain things, but that’s cos it’s cheap and doesn’t have a delicate finish. Le Creuset have taken a simple pan, given it a delicate coating and then charged 3x for it.

I concede that for some niche applications hotspots may be a problem. I don’t cook like that, but you might. However I maintain that LeC is not worth the money, and to praise its longevity immediately before listing a long list of care requirements seems daft.

Not of the same size/volume as a medium or larger cast iron casserole.

That’s over 40cm and over 50 litres.
You could cook the biggest Le Creuset (the £400 one) in it. 😆

A lot of people, many of them far better cooks than me and probably you, are happy to put their money where their mouth is and are happy with the results.

A lot of people are prepared to spend over £30,000 on a FWD diesel Euroshitbox, but that doesn’t change the fact that none of the chefs I’ve worked with or employed bother with that overpriced lifestyleware. 😉

Yeah, that basically backs up what I’m saying.

Not really, it explains why cast iron is particularly suited to casseroles and some types of frying/griddling (unlike stainless steel).

Plain cast iron I can appreciate for certain things, but that’s cos it’s cheap and doesn’t have a delicate finish. Le Creuset have taken a simple pan, given it a delicate coating and then charged 3x for it.

The vitreous enamel coating is not particularly delicate, although it would not be surprising if the coating on a poor quality copy was much less durable than on a Le Creuset or a good quality copy. As for the premium that the coating adds compared with bare cast iron, it seems to me that is the bare cast iron that is more often poor value for money, e.g. £120 for the Netherton Foundry casserole, which another poster recommended and which doesn’t even have any handles. If you look at the Staub production process in the video below, you can see what you are getting for your money, and as with bikes the economies of scale of mass production make the boutique small scale artisan manufacturer look poor value if they are offering an inferior product (as opposed to filling a niche by offering something different or better, e.g. custom sizing or geometry). As for what something is worth, if you are patient and do your research, you can pay a lot less than RRP. I have already suggested that the OP pay a visit to the outlet shops in Bicester: I bought a 26cm Staub casserole there a few years ago for only £56.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEEzzXx7NOo[/video]

These are ideal for all sorts of stuff.

https://www.procook.co.uk/product/newprocook-professional-steel-shallow-casserole-lid-28cm-61l

That and the slow heat conduction means less likelihood of hot spots when used on a hob

So I’m making a shepherd’s pie right now in my LeC, and the filling is boiling in a ring around where the flame is. I thought I was not meant to have hotspots?

See how there are no bubbles round the edge:

[video]https://youtu.be/KElL9vfLUHU[/video]

That’s over 40cm and over 50 litres.

That’s a stock pot, which is obviously not going to fit in an oven anyway. The fact that you offer this as an example indicates the weakness of your argument.

none of the chefs I’ve worked with or employed bother with that overpriced lifestyleware

Similarly a wholly irrelevant ‘appeal to authority’. Casseroles are overwhelmingly used for domestic cooking, and the types of meals prepared in them are typically not suited to the demands of a commercial kitchen (speed, production of individual servings etc.).

So I’m making a shepherd’s pie right now in my LeC, and the filling is boiling in a ring around where the flame is. I thought I was not meant to have hotspots?

It’s all relative. The thickness of the cast iron combined with its poor conductivity will mean that more heat will reach the sides of the pan, but if the burner temperature is high enough of course you will get hot spots. It’s only really a problem if food catches and burns as a result of the hotspots.

1. You could try lowering the heat a bit (and putting the lid back, unless you are seeking to boil off more of the liquid). This is supposed to be one of the benefits of cast iron, i.e. the temperature stability allows lower heat settings.

2. Try doing it with a stainless steel pan and see what the difference is.

That’s a stock pot, which is obviously not going to fit in an oven anyway. The fact that you offer this as an example indicates the weakness of your argument.

That and his stealth edit from “You won’t find any oval stainless pans firstly due to the method of manufacture and secondly because it’s the wrong shape.” To “You won’t find many oval stainless pans firstly due to the method of manufacture and secondly because it’s the wrong shape.”

You could try lowering the heat a bit (and putting the lid back,

Lid was on, heat was very low. I don’t see this with SS pans.

That’s a stock pot, which is obviously not going to fit in an oven anyway. The fact that you offer this as an example indicates the weakness of your argument.

It’s a metal pan.
They are available in all sizes, including bigger than a casserole dish, which was your weak argument.

Casseroles are overwhelmingly used for domestic cooking, and the types of meals prepared in them are typically not suited to the demands of a commercial kitchen

I was referring to what they use at home.

If you look at the Staub production process in the video below, you can see what you are getting for your money

Expensive marketing? 😆

Lid was on, heat was very low. I don’t see this with SS pans.

😆

I don’t see this with SS pans

I’m surprised (unless it had a thick aluminium disc base or was high quality tri-ply, in which case you would be comparing cast iron with aluminium, not with stainless steel).

That and his stealth edit from “You won’t find any oval stainless pans firstly due to the method of manufacture and secondly because it’s the wrong shape.” To “You won’t find many oval stainless pans firstly due to the method of manufacture and secondly because it’s the wrong shape.”

So stealthy I italicized the word to highlight its addition. 🙄
I didn’t change the word from “any”, merely added it.

Is everyone that uses this forum on the bloody spectrum?

Oops! Sorry yes you added the word you’re right, which of course completely changed what you said.

Is everyone that uses this forum on the bloody spectrum?

I’ve no idea what this is meant to mean.

unless it had a thick aluminium disc base

What I’m saying is that all but the very cheapest SS pans have that thick ALU base. Even the basic Asda one I have that was like £10 or something.

To me it’s a standard features of SS pans. Certainly worth factoring in when comparing with £100 pans.

There’s a lot of the pot calling the kettle black on this thread

One of our LC pans developed a crack on the inner enamel a couple of years ago. No idea how. Still used regularly and no issue (although not recommended).

Plenty of decent spec manufs to chose from these days. Expensive yes, but still the sexiest pans IMO.

There’s a lot of the pot calling the kettle black on this thread

But I thought we had already established that the pot contains a light enamel and there are several products available to keep it this way?

Is everyone that uses this forum on the bloody spectrum?

There’s a lot of the pot calling the kettle black on this thread

Love it 😀 😀

Well there I was wondering around Asda yesterday and spotted a said cast iron casserole dish for half price – £17.50 😀 like a smug get.