going over the 90 day limit ?

sparked by the retirement location thread,

just wondering what the consequences of going over the 90 day limit in europe would be.

if we were on a europe wide cycle tour, where you can freely cycle from one country to the next without checks.

obviously if you were to come home you would get you passport looked at by the border exit staff at the ferry port. would it flash up then showing you time away.

would it be a fine ? jail ? or a travel ban ?    any idea anyone

Travel ban is my understanding.

Passport stamping about to go digital so it’ll be much easier to monitor stays

UK Skiers Urged to Prepare for New Entry System to EU Next Winter

The law states they can ban you from returning to the EU / Schengen zone. I have no idea if this has ever been enforced. Or what happens when you get to the border to leave the zone

Depends on the country (and to some extent the political climate there), and how long you overstay. You become an “illegal immigrant”, which in some countries can mean a fine, in others forced deportation at your expense.

so in theory we could roll off the ferry in rotterdam, and as long as we dont use our passports anywhere on our tour, we could just keep riding around the whole of europe pretty much unchecked, and just suffer the consequences on our entry back into the uk ?

If that’s what happens, you’d be treated as overstaying in France, which IIRC is (in practice) only a €200 fine and no ban on returning (after the normal period). Get caught in other countries and it’s a different matter. Sliding scale of fines in Greece (cynically you could say they need the money). Other counties also have bigger fines (Italy, Spain), and can give travel bans, and if need be could send you home and make you pay the costs (Portugal, Austria).

Not really… you could be ‘black-listed’ if you over-stay, and refused entry into the EU in future.

Welcome to brexit. It’s what ‘we’ voted for, to end freedom of movement.

Even if you have a valid UK passport, you need at least 6 months before the expiry date, as some older british passports were issued ‘illegally’ with extra months on them.

Thats why we have loads of chavs crying that they can’t fly. They didn’t understand what they were voting for.

But to be fair…I’d rather have fewer UK knob heads in Spain, rather than more…

Ah, Rotterdam… no idea what the Dutch would do on your return.

Go and return via Ireland? I was told a couple of weeks ago by a cycle tourist his passport had not been checked into France or out again. You certainly don’t get checked going UK – Ireland.
A gamble?
And @tjagain made that trip last year.

no idea what the Dutch would do on your return.

I think the ‘Dutch oven’ would be a suitable punishment.

Small boat across the channel?

Belgium seems to be 200EUR as well but I can’t see you being hit with that as it would be at the point you are leaving the schengen area.  Interesting question really.   If you are only planning on going a few months over then limit then you could just apply for an extension although it does look like you need to do that per country 🙁
https://www.axa-schengen.com/en/schengen-visa/visa-extension

That axa link seems to imply a few hundred eur fine and maybe a ban for a few years.  Seems ok

What would happen when/if accommodation checked your passports past the six month entry date?

What would happen when/if accommodation checked your passports past the six month entry date?

I doubt any hotel would care as long as they get paid… it border control you should be wary of.

Just check what might happen in the future.  Ie – if you fly to Greece in 3 years time and they can see you previously overstayed will they let you in?

I had difficulty getting into Croatia because they could see on my passport that I’d entered the EU via Amsterdam the year before but as my passport wasn’t stamped when I left via Calais thought I’d overstayed.  I’d had several European trips in the meantime where this hadn’t been noticed / wasn’t an issue.

Hotels have a duty to keep and pass on passport information in many countries.

Depends how joined up it is, I guess. So you now have to have residence in order to get a job here, for instance, and I’ve certainly been to countries where checking into a hotel with invalid paperwork would have the police knocking on your door in half an hour. The technology to implement it certainly exists, it just needs the will/desire to do so.

*90 days, btw, not sure where I got six months from.

It’s not just border control. What if police stop you, ask for your passport, notice you’re over the 90 days. Could you end up arrested as an illegal immigrant?

so in theory we could roll off the ferry in rotterdam, and as long as we dont use our passports anywhere on our tour, we could just keep riding around the whole of europe pretty much unchecked, and just suffer the consequences on our entry back into the uk ?

Don’t forget that you can be stopped in any country and they can inspect your passport.

Be interesting to see what you got if they find it over 90 days and you’ll be at the mercy of whatever the countries policy is on this.

I think Spain have  a fine between 500€-10,000€ depending on how long . A fine could also be issued in conjunction with an entry ban.You could be banned from re-entering for up to 5years.(depending on the case and scenario)

I’ve not heard much in Spain around overstaying.

IMHO as a cyclist they are less likely to pull you over to check your papers as they are in a car but they can still ask for them and if you got involved in any road incidents and the police are involved even if it’s not your fault they are going to be looking at your passport which is when the fun will start.

(I’m well over 1000+ days on overstay 🙂

What would the implications of overstaying be on travel insurance?

I know of a few who’ve overstayed in Sweden. It’s a fine (few thousand SEK), repatriation at your own expense and (usually) a 2 or 3 year entry ban.

Try and get in again/get caught again and the fine goes up and the ban gets longer, up to 10 years.

Plan a route that takes you out the Schengen area after 89 days, come back in to reset the clock?

The 89 day loophole is covered by the 90 days in any 180 days. Leaving doesn’t reset your 90 days.

That’s not how it works.

Try and get in again/get caught again and the fine goes up and the ban gets longer, up to 10 years.

Its almost as if they treat it as deliberately breaking their laws rather than the stw I fancy a holiday that suits me mindset it really is – weird!

The 89 day loophole is covered by the 90 days in any 180 days. Leaving doesn’t reset your 90 days.

Should have known the EU was cleverer than me.

I think the Irish loophole may apply ie going UK / Ireland/France on ferries you don’t get a passport check- maybe worth looking at?.  I didn’t use this tho

It can get a bit complicated calculating the 90/180 if you are making multiple visits to the EU. We tend to use one of the online calculators just as a sanity check.

https://www.visa-calculator.com/en/

Before Brexit I travelled round Europe for 100 days, continuously. It was all on foot and public transport via channel ferry out and back

When we got back to UK passport control they scanned my passport and knew exactly how long I had been away and quizzed me on my departure date. It seemed more curious than sinister, but they definitely knew

You’d imagine the Frenchies have a similar system, but I don’t know

Ireland isn’t in the Schengen zone so passports should be checked on entering from there.

Here’s a handy guide:
https://www.thelocal.fr/20210331/reader-question-what-happens-if-i-over-stay-my-90-day-limit-in-france

There could be a ban from returning to the EU, but with everything there is a chance to appeal.

With an appeal you get an opportunity to put your side, and maybe roll out some sort of excuse that you hit mechanical problems and there was a delay on getting spare parts and thats why you were held up(obviously depending on how long an overstayer you are.

The EU are pretty pro cycling, so they would have more understanding and perhaps more sympathy for such a situation.

The other thoughts, when you enter the EU do you have documentation for when you are leaving? Can you prove you have sufficient funds. If you don’t have a ticket out you might be refused entry on day 1. If you have a long stay then you better have lots of money or the same situation.

I find it hard to believe it doesn’t make travel insurance impossible. Because you’re asking an insurer to cover something that isn’t legally possible. I suspect that if you needed big health care tyres notice

But that’s a gamble not a certainty

Silly question, but is there not some sort of visa to cover it?

Italian police passed through the carriage and did an ID check of passengers on the train we were travelling on in April. Passport was scanned and presumably checked for things like how long we had been in the EU.  Wouldn’t have liked to be over the 90 day limit in that situation.

@onzadog

My daughter got a year as a student.But it was a big deal. Proof of funds, a course and an in person interview. I didn’t think they do tourist extensions

Just to be clear, they will treat you as an illegal immigrant because you are an illegal immigrant.  I think things will get a lot trickier after 90 days if you need to use the police, hire car insurance, healthcare etc etc etc.  I’ve had people coming from the UK for work refused entry because of paperwork problems, and also get a preemptive phone call to point out their papers are going to expire soon.  What will happen if you’re leaving at the channel after 92 days is one thing, there are other scenarios as well, and I don’t think being a nice old bloke from the UK is a get out of jail card.

Even if you have a valid UK passport, you need at least 6 months before the expiry date, as some older british passports were issued ‘illegally’ with extra months on them.

Both of these are incorrect. The validity after departure must be 3 months or more, the passport must have under 10 years validity remaining on entry to EU/Schengen. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-nationals/index_en.htm