Going back to non-freestanding tent?

Hi all,

I’m looking at a buying a lightweight tent that uses hiking poles to pitch.

It will shave off around 1kg from my current setup and eliminate bulk.

It’s not much of an issue in this soggy land, but has anyone else gone back to using non-freestanding tents?

Can you manage when the ground is rocky with some creativity?

In the past, they were deal breakers for me, but losing 1kg off my current setup is very attractive.

Advice welcome!

FM

I haven’t. For me the weight is worth the security of a strong tent I can hunker down in. I guess it depends on where and when you are going.

Ask me again when I get back from Canada later this year and had to portage my gear a few times. I might change my opinion 🙂

Hmmm, that’s it, they do provide a good sense of security.

What’s the deal with these semi-freestanding tents? Worst of both worlds?

We met a guy in the pyrenees who had a cuben fibre tent, it was crazy light and very impressive. He had done enough serious mountain trips to convince me it was a goer, but he still had the issue of finding a good pitch whereas we didn’t with our geodesic.

I could see me getting one, but it would be for specific trips and I’d still use the geo for others. I’ve survived genuine hurricane force winds in the geo, it was bloody unpleasant but I stayed dry and the trip continued with no damage.

So very much horses for courses I think

I’m looking at a buying a lightweight tent that uses hiking poles to pitch.

It will shave off around 1kg from my current setup and eliminate bulk.

You’re only saving carrying the poles, my 1-man tent only weighs a kilo, including the poles…

If you are using it for a few nights in a predictable weather window then the a single or double pole tent doesn’t really have any disadvantages. I have a Lunar Solo.and a Scarp 1. The latter can be converted into a freestanding tent with a couple of additional poles. I’ve yet to use them.

TBH if I’m concerned about ground conditions preventing a good pitch I’m more likely to take a bivvy bag and (maybe) a tarp..

No reason a freestanding tent would be stronger than a non one, it all depends on the design. If anything, freestanding tents with vertical sides will be worse in windy weather, whereas “Mid” style tents tend to shed the wind very well.

There are up and downsides to both of course, the extra time it takes to get a good pitch is worth the weight savings to me. Camping on flat rock can be a pain, you have to get creative with using rocks instead of pegs, but it can be done.

As they normally taper to a point at the top (hence the term ‘mid) you do lose a bit of livable space inside, so it can be worth going for a 2p tent if you plan to use it by yourself and bring all your bags inside. Some 1p models are nice and roomy though!

I have pegs that can be hammered into rocky ground.  Square section alloy ones.   You can always find a rock for a hammer

I went from a quasar to a hilleberg tunnel in the 1990s.

I had the same worries. But in reality in hundreds of nights it never let us down

I think utah we camped on slick rock with rocks as pegs. Had it been windy it might not have worked, but it wasn’t. As TJ says having the correct pegs helps.

This is where the old phoenix phreeranger (trekker tents do a copy) was a winner in  goretex: single hoop lightweight 1 person tent with vestibule. Not self standing. But in goretex . So when flattened it also worked as it was a bivvy bag.

Between geodesic and non, there are other more important factors that are important for me before the choice between the 2. For the UK climate that includes a fly that extends down to close ground level so rain does not get blown under.

I have pegs that can be hammered into rocky ground.  Square section alloy ones.   You can always find a rock for a hammer

Surely having to specifically carry them would erode the weight saving you’re trying to achieve?

A long long time ago we used to camp with a Vango Force Ten Ì’m sure it had external pockets which we filled with stones to weigh it down when  camping on frozen ground.

Surely having to specifically carry them would erode the weight saving you’re trying to achieve?

they are the pegs i use al the time

No reason a freestanding tent would be stronger than a non one, it all depends on the design. If anything, freestanding tents with vertical sides will be worse in windy weather, whereas “Mid” style tents tend to shed the wind very well.

You missed the point somewhat.

It’s not much of an issue in this soggy land, but has anyone else gone back to using non-freestanding tents?

Can you manage when the ground is rocky with some creativity?

Yes, you can. You can loop guys round large rocks, improvise anchors with stones and tape in cracks etc. I’ve pitched using ice screws and axes hammered into the snowpack and to nylon bags filled with snow and unless you’re pitching on rock slabs, there’s usually some useable soil to hammer a tough peg into somewhere.

There are plenty of robust, non-geodesic tents around, classic tunnel designs from the likes of Hilleberg and Macpac are seriously tough, though they need careful guying and are best pitched end on into the wind.

There’s even a school of thought that says geodesics are more likely to fail catastrophically in really high winds because there’s less inherent give in the structure, so when they do go, they go with a proper bang. I don’t know how absolutely true this is, but a few decades ago, I survived a bonkers Pyrenean storm in an old Ultimate Peapod tunnel tent because the flexy fibreglass poles flexed with the wind rather than breaking. It was an interesting experience, we spent quite a lot of time with the tent being pressed into our faces by the wind.

If you want more evidence that light, non-geodesics can be pretty tough, check out some of the Nordisk wind tunnel test videos on YouTube – very light, non-geodesics that survive proper high winds.

But yes, you can’t pick up non-geodesics and move them around. They are less reliant on guying than tunnels and similar. Semi-geodesics also work fine ime. I wouldn’t get too het up on free on non free-standing semantics, you really want to know whether your tent is going to be tough enough to cope with the worst conditions you’re likely to encounter in use.

I’m looking at a buying a lightweight tent that uses hiking poles to pitch.

It will shave off around 1kg from my current setup and eliminate bulk.

You’re only saving carrying the poles, my 1-man tent only weighs a kilo, including the poles

I’m also struggling with the thought process here. Clearly there is far more to explain the weight difference between the current tent and the proposed tent. And thus there must surely be a compromise option which gives some of the weight saving without going poleless?

A long long time ago we used to camp with a Vango Force Ten Ì’m sure it had external pockets which we filled with stones to weigh it down when camping on frozen ground.

Some of the F10 expedition versions – eg the mk3 was double ended, so basically one tent one end, the other ‘tent’ was effectively a very large store

Those were coloured blue(not the usual orange, or the lightweight fly which was green(though they did eventually come out with a nylon fly that was orange)

So expedition were blue and also had snow flaps, which i think it is you are thinking about.

Snow flaps are just longer sides which sit on the ground and you put snow on top of, both to hold it down, and prevent snow from blowing up inside between the fly sheet and the inner.

Nothing beats an old Force 10. I’ve had my Mk2 on the Cuillins campsite and awoke the next morning to find the ultra light and expensive tents have blown down during the night.

Mk2 weighs about 9lb, though we usually car camped, but that said, bitd people went on cycling/camping holidays and the tent is not far off the 10lb mark

I think you’re right dyna -ti

have pegs that can be hammered into rocky ground.  Square section alloy ones.   You can always find a rock for a hammer

Canadian campsites laugh at your pegs.

For that reason I’ll always travel with a free standing tent.

That and wild country tents are shite.

Got my eye on the msr carbon 1 for future solo trips.

In the UK where I 99% know where and what I’ll be camping on bivvy and tarp it is.

If you’re worried about hard ground, take some cord loops so that you can attach the pegging points to big rocks.

That assumes there are some big rocks.

We ended up attached to picnic benches , trees , bins, large branches,  bikes.

This is where the old phoenix phreeranger (trekker tents do a copy) was a winner in  goretex: single hoop lightweight 1 person tent with vestibule. Not self standing. But in goretex . So when flattened it also worked as it was a bivvy bag.

I had a Phreeranger goretex tent until it died a couple of years ago while on the Badger.  Brilliant piece of kit, and even though it was nearly 40 y/o I couldn’t find any modern equivalent to replace it – bought a Vango Helium 1 as it was the same ‘shape’.

My trekkertent stealth 1.5 ( trekking pole tent) goes up with 6 pegs and is quicker to put up than my lightwave semi geodesic tent.  There are more pegging points for use in wind

The square section alloy pegs have been hammered into rock hard rocky french campsites numerous times with no great issue

Somewhere there a a video of one in a howling gale – it stands up well – I suspect with the flat sides it would be more “flappy” in wind than a geodesic or semi geodesic

the stealth 1.5 weighs under a kilo with poles and pegs and a full cloth inner. that weight is with an extra pole to make an A pole at the front

Inner and outer only are 700g

hammered into rock hard rocky french campsites numerous times with no great issue

Child’s play compared to British columbia camp grounds.

I defy anyone to get a regular (hd or otherwise) peg into the compacted hardcore pitches they use.

I saw one chap car camping using screw in pegs driven by his impact driver.  Everyone else had American design free standing tents we were the Brits who had brought the stupid british tunnel tent.

Yes I can confirm the BC and Alaska boiler plate pitches.