So last October I bought concert tickets to see Ben Howard (I know your musical tastes may differ, but that is not the point here), as his one and only album at the time was a favourite with our family.

The concert was last night. In the interim since booking, he has unsurprisingly brought out a second album, but markedly different from the first, much more downbeat, and in my opinion dangerously close to bedwetter’s music. So we go off to the concert thinking hey ho, he’ll mix up the old and new stuff, and perhaps give the new material a bit more oomph live. Well, in short, he didn’t. Just about all of it was the new album; when about halfway through he played one of his bigger hits from the first album the crowd got into into it, and I thought ‘here we go’ but then he bought us straight back down again with a slow number. So my question is, was he out of order not to give the crowd what they wanted? Or is it a case of ‘pay your money and take your chances’?

The other thing that really pissed me off, and in the long pauses between songs I heard others complaining about too, was his close to zero interaction with the audience. He said absolutely nothing to us until over an hour in and then it was a mumbled ‘thank you’. You could hear ironic shouts of “SPEECH!” from fans stood at the front later on too.

Part of the problem I think is that although he could fill all the seats in the arena (and make more money than at a smaller venue), he’s not really an arena style artist, despite the big light and audio show. He seemed detached from the audience in his manner, and this was amplified (pun intended) by the vastness of the venue and the distance from most of the audience.

Am I just being a typical STW miserable old sod? In my defence exactly a month previously we went and saw Nick Mulvey at the Albert Hall in Manchester and I bloody loved it.

Saw him in a very small venue before he became popular about 2 years ago and was OK.
Streamed his new album about 6 months ago and listened to about 20 secs of each song.
Every Kingdom is OK.. New album is pretty uninspiring cack.

I don’t get it. When did you get the grumble?

Is disappoint.

I saw Muse a few years ago, about 2008 when they’d started their decline, and they basically just played all of Origin of Symmetry in order then a few other old bangers and left us to it with only one new song. It was brilliant.

I don’t get it. When did you get the grumble?

Is disappoint.

+1 🙁

Saw The Cure many, many moons ago. Long pauses, no interaction, goths all over the place. At least the music was cool.

The other thing that really pissed me off, and in the long pauses between songs I heard others complaining about too, was his close to zero interaction with the audience.

I bet you were glad that you took your grumble with you.

Bit of disdain for what the crowd wants is healthy – he’s not a juke box. Too much and there won’t be a crowd, so that’s his circle to square.

Get to a certain level and it probably ceases to matter – Bob Dylan fans have been asking him to play the good stuff for 40 years, and he generally doesn’t, AFAIK. Old timers still turn up in droves to see him.

You bought the tickets in October 2014 for the tour of his new album, which was released in October 2014.

I wouldn’t be surprised that the show consisted mainly of that album really.

His first album is now four years old, so I wuodnt expect it would feature too heavily in the set list for his current tour.

Chesney Hawkes came to play at our uni. Crown chanting for The One and Only between every song. He didn’t play it.

I can understand an artist wanting to progress, David Bowie not wanting to be who is now and play the music he’s into making now, rather than switch between characters to do a greatest hits of David Bowie show, leaving naff all time for any of the newer stuff.

But a one hit wonder not playing his one hit?

I went to see the cult about 5 years ago and they missed out some of there best songs, Ian Astbury basically said we’re doing another tour next year if you want to hear the good songs come to that…
Still enjoyed it though.

It’s just how it works, tours are to support the current album. Especially when there’s a change of tone/style, if he’s moving away from that sound on album why would he cling to it in gigs? It’s not a service industry, you’re paying to see the music he makes.

OTOH I saw Andrew WK, touring second album The Wolf. “So I have a new album out! But, it’s selling quite badly, you probably haven’t bought it, so we’re going to play the last one!”

munrobiker – Member

I saw Muse a few years ago, about 2008 when they’d started their decline

Beautifully put there 😆

Saw the Dropkick Murphy’s at Rock City a few weeks ago.

On the one hand they played very little of the new album, on the other hand they don’t really do a greatest hits set either, it’s just 60 minutes of full throttle playing whatever songs they felt like when drawing up the set list.

It’s good, but it does mean you don’t necessarily get the really big songs either. But if they always did a greatest hits, people wouldn’t go back and see them again and again (this applies to any artist).

Ah, that’s a real shame.

I’m going to see Ben Howard on Saturday night in Newcastle.

It’ll be the 4th time I’ve seen him. Twice at the Riverside and once at the University. I had the best time the first time – I was with some friends, it was the Bank holiday weekend in 2011 when Will & Kate married, it was a beautiful sunny day / warm night and it was awesome.

He had turned into a grumpy git by the time we saw him at the University, complaining that the crowd were talking, that no body paid any attention to the support (Daughter – quite good), etc, etc.

I don’t have high hopes for tomorrows concert, although I do quite like his 2nd album.

AND NOW YOU’RE TELLING ME TO TAKE MY OWN GRUMBLE TOO?????

Poor show all round……

Crowd interaction is pretty essential in my book, so yeah right to be a bit annoyed by that. Some people really are introspective artists who shy away from all the attention, seems weird, but there you are.

Most of the material being new album, no great surprise and yes if you book before you know the album you are taking a risk.

I loved the first album and haven’t bothered with the second.

Bands who are really enjoying themselves and interact well with the crowd are the best. Nick Mulvey is a decent example, The Subways, Frightened Rabbit also stand out as bands who like a bit of banter for me.

About 4 years ago herself bought tickets to go and see Seth Lakeman. When we got to the venue there were 5 support bands and he didn’t come on stage until after 11pm. I know that because we were on our way home then as I had to be up at 6am the next morning to get to a 8am meeting.
Unsurprisingly he’s an artist I’ve never seen then, or since.

OTOH I saw Andrew WK, touring second album The Wolf. “So I have a new album out! But, it’s selling quite badly, you probably haven’t bought it, so we’re going to play the last one!”

That is splendid !

(though, by reputation, shouldn’t he have been totally incoherent anyway?)

Don’t you lot be hard on the OP – he was just looking for a bit of razzlemattaz

I saw Evan Dando briefly, i say briefly because he had obviously smoked a bit too much NZ skunk and after 2 songs he the re-played the first one again, had a fight with a guy on the front row and stormed off. Best gig ever.

I saw Muse a few years ago, about 2008 when they’d started their decline

Miss Sandwich and me saw them at V festival (2006-ish) and we still tease Sandwich Jr about the time we saw Muse when they were still good!! He takes it in good part.

I’ve just had to check what grumble meant on urban dictionary. 😳

😆

But a one hit wonder not playing his one hit?

I saw the legendary Ralph McTell many years ago. He finished his set by saying, “I was going to play a medley of my greatest hits , but I’ve only got one.. Let me take you by the hand and…” (He was a very entertaining live act.)

thisisnotaspoon – Member
Saw the Dropkick Murphy’s at Rock City a few weeks ago.

On the one hand they played very little of the new album, on the other hand they don’t really do a greatest hits set either, it’s just 60 minutes of full throttle playing whatever songs they felt like when drawing up the set list
My wife pointed out that all of their songs sound like a football chant. I haven’t been able to listen to them since.

About 4 years ago herself bought tickets to go and see Seth Lakeman. When we got to the venue there were 5 support bands and he didn’t come on stage until after 11pm. I know that because we were on our way home then as I had to be up at 6am the next morning to get to a 8am meeting.
Unsurprisingly he’s an artist I’ve never seen then, or since.

Rock and Roll eh !

I think your grumble is as old as time – I’m sure we’ve all thought the same thing from time to time.

I personally think the performers should strike a balance or the crowd will turn on them – saying that I once paid the princely sum of £5 to see Ocean Colour Scene – the gig was clearly stated as a one-off to play their new songs from an unreleased album, get some feedback, give the band a chance to rehearse in front of a small crowd – they played about 3 songs no body knew, they were okay – I’m not a massive fan of theirs, but I’m not sure they ever actually released them – then they played their hits for a couple of hours, it was actually bloody brilliant.

I saw the Foo Fighters year ago, they were a support act for The Prodigy, some of the crowd just kept calling for Teen Spirit between songs which they refused to play, and I don’t blame them – different band, different time. I’ve also seen Velvet Revolver and they played a Guns and Roses song which was good, someone said they add one to every set. I saw the Rolling Stones a few years ago too, I actually like some of the stuff they’ve released in the last few decades, of which they played exactly zero and did all their greatest hits and were frankly outstanding.

Biffy Clyro, watched them at Birmingham, it was rubbish watched them at Nottingham one of the best gigs I’ve been to. Crowd has a lot to do with how a gig goes imho.

Saw Sultans of Ping FC many many years ago… They didn’t play Where’s me jumper.

Travesty!

Biffy are a weird one, I’ve seen them in every shape and size from playing to 50 people in a little tent at Reading (absolutely every one of them down from Scotland for the weekend), and supporting incredibly random bands (OPM ffs!), up to headlining sheds and festivals. I’d never have believed for a second that they’d be able to scale up, but it turns out they can be pretty much deadly in any room. Haven’t seen a better arena show tbh, their last SECC show was outrageously good.

I do get slightly bummed that they don’t play much old stuff. But then half the crowd stands around looking confused when they play justboy so I suppose expecting them to play hope for an angel again is a bit of a reach.

Also, Where’s Me Jumper is the Sultans’ worst song.

WTF is bedwetter music?

Ben Howard’s second album. Do keep up.

Ben Howard’s second album has eventually started to work for me but it took quite a while. I’m a little surprised that he’s “moving away” from the style of his first album, my impression was that he was expanding rather than changing his style. While I think it’s reasonable for you to be disappointed by his performance I don’t think you’ve any legitimate redress beyond moaning about it to others and not seeing him again in future.

At one of the Eels gigs I’ve been to they didn’t just not play Novocaine for the Soul, E taunted the crowd when people shouted for it. It was still an ace gig though, and their Louie Louie/Mr E’s Beautiful Blues mash-up was great. At some Sparklehorse gigs Mark Linkous seemed actually upset and tortured when audience members called for some of their earlier, rockier songs.

I’ve only seen Muse live since they descended into space/prog/too damn epic silliness, but frankly that’s what I enjoy about them. They still seem to play a reasonable smattering of songs from their older albums (Origin of Symmetry/Absolution anyway, not from Showbiz though) but it’s more their level of audience engagement and rapport that’s dodgy, rather than the music. I was pretty relieved that they subjected us to only one part of Exogenesis Symphony when they toured The Resistance and even that felt like the band telling us “OK we’ll play Knights of Cydonia, but only if you make it through this first…”

I travelled hundreds of miles to see frank zappa years ago and he was shite, it was a seated venue which didn’t help but he really phoned it in.
In contrast I saw Hayseed dixie in a seated venue, to a crowd that were genuinely expecting a dixieland jazz band. They absolutely gave it hell and it was a belter of a night.

‘pay your money and take your chances’

Indeed. Some people are good live, some aren’t. Sometimes the ones who are good have bad nights.
What happens is, you chat about it with people you went with and then move on to the next gig.

I wonder idly whether there’s a thread in that.

One of the best live acts I’ve ever seen is Bryan Adams. On shiny disc he’s all right, but live he’s magnificent.

Last time I saw JLS, it was looking like they weren’t going to play Everybody In Love, but then they did. Filmed it all on my phone. Great night.

The Subways

Urgh, they supported AC/DC at Hamden (WTF, right?) and just came over as godawful ****. Wrong crowd I guess…

Smashing Pumpkins were apparantly like that when Mrs Squirrel saw them, I think I was off watching Tool at the time so it was win/win whatever I did.

I had to google Ben Howard to find out who he is. He sounds like some other bloke whose name escapes me at the moment, but I certainly wouldn’t peg him for a stadium artist, far too introspective.
However, that’s beside the point; he’s released two full albums and a clutch of EPs, his back catalogue is hardly bursting at the seams, and an artist touring a new album is going to assume that most going to see him on that tour will have familiarised themselves with the new music to some extent. I’ve been to gigs where the headliner literally had one album to their name, played the whole thing, and had to repeat two songs for the encores! Elastica, it was, and a great gig, too.
If I go to see a band touring a new album, especially if they don’t have a large repertoire to choose from, then I expect the setlist to be monopolised by new material, with a few crowd pleasers chucked in, but you have to take what you’re given, and everyone has their own personal favourites anyway, so they’ll never please everyone.
I had the great pleasure of seeing one of my favourite singer/songwriters last Sunday in London, for the first time in seven years, and she has seven albums to her credit, plus an album recorded as a trio with her husband and another singer/songwriter, under the name Redbird.
This means there’s a whole shitload of songs for the audience to have as favourites; she has sixteen songs on her setlist, and I could have picked sixteen favourites of my own which would have been different to nearly fifty percent of what she played.
I’d posted a short-list on Fb before the gig, and she actually included three, and one in particular which is from her third album, and one of my absolute favourite songs.
I think everyone at that gig went away light of heart having had at least one favourite played, and she managed to include a large chunk of the new album to boot.
It’s a really difficult balancing act for an artist, to promote new material that’s unfamiliar, and to satisfy the audience who all have different favourites, and it’s especially difficult at the extremes, when the artist has a small catalogue to choose from, and when they have an extensive one; someone is gonna be disappointed that ‘their’ song didn’t get played.
There’s no right answer, other than to go and enjoy what’s played, and perhaps find a new favourite song.
As it happens, I discovered Kris, the singer I saw Sunday, supporting another singer/songwriter, Erin McKeown, who’s a close friend of Kris; I’d never heard of her before, certainly never heard a single song of hers, but I bought a copy of the CD after the show, and it’s still an absolute favourite, after twelve years. I never tire of listening to it, and it just reinforces what I heard in her songs and voice on just one listening in a tiny venue in Bristol.
As was the venue in London, the Green Note, a perfect place to see someone like Kris.
I can’t recommend her highly enough, her name’s Kris Delmhorst, her husband is Jeffrey Foucault, a damned fine guitarist and singer as well.
I never go to gigs with the expectation of my favourite song being played, although I’ve had some played after calling out a request, but there are some songs an artist just WILL. NOT. PLAY. Simple as that.
Maria McKee doesn’t play Show Me Heaven, her only No 1 UK chart hit, despite always being asked; I’ve asked her after a gig, as she signed my CD copy, and she just doesn’t sing it, simple as that. I thought she hated it, I was even reluctant to ask her to sign the CD*, but she was delightful, and perfectly happy to do so. Go figure.
*She can be notoriously cranky live, so I didn’t know what her reaction would be. She’s really lovely!

‘pay your money and take your chances’

Indeed. Some people are good live, some aren’t. Sometimes the ones who are good have bad nights.
What happens is, you chat about it with people you went with and then move on to the next gig.
Oh yes; one of the most disappointing was John Martyn in Bristol, completely shit-faced, almost completely incoherent and a really poor gig. I’ve also seen him play magnificently.
I also saw Sparklehorse in Bristol, Mark was already part way into a bottle of JD, which he swigged from all the way through. Forgot one of his own songs, despite the rest of the band showing him the chords, and a roadie had to grab him as he toppled off the end of the stage after the main set. It was a fabulous gig, absolutely superb, and memorable for the same reason the John Martyn gig was, both singers were pissed; however, one was actually functioning, and I’ll never forget how much I enjoyed that concert.
Mark actually apologised in an NME interview for his behaviour a while after, I thought he was brilliant!

CountZero – Member
I also saw Sparklehorse in Bristol, Mark was already part way into a bottle of JD, which he swigged from all the way through. Forgot one of his own songs, despite the rest of the band showing him the chords, and a roadie had to grab him as he toppled off the end of the stage after the main set. It was a fabulous gig, absolutely superb, and memorable for the same reason the John Martyn gig was, both singers were pissed; however, one was actually functioning, and I’ll never forget how much I enjoyed that concert.
Mark actually apologised in an NME interview for his behaviour a while after, I thought he was brilliant!

Fleece and Firkin in ’98? I was there too! Mark broke the tape machine he used to make his odd instrumental intermissions too, at one point. Away from the mic he could barely stand but at the mic with a guitar in his hands (if he had managed to grasp it when the guitar tech passed it to him) he was still great.

On the one hand it was great and very rock ‘n’ roll, on the other hand it was a strong sign of the troubles that plagued him through his life and presumably were a factor in his death. 🙁