Hi,

As I grew up there were no substitutes for dinner. It was eat it or starve.

As my wife grew up pickiness and choosing something else was fine.

As our 3 year old grows up this difference in baseline attitude is causing some trouble when the wee one refuses to eat dinner.

Several of my family have commented that there was no alternative to dinner when they grew up when my wife offers an alternative when he refuses something.

Several of my wife’s family have chipped in with alternatives when he won’t eat something and I’m persisting in offering the original meal.

I’m happy to let him not eat it, with no substitutes.
My wife offers alternatives. My approach annoys her, hers annoys me.

Clearly a 3 year old and a varied diet is always going to be a challenge. I got threatened with being force fed at hospital, mostly for refusing a variety of vegetables. My friend was mostly threatened with being taken to the children’s home, culminating in actually bing driven there by her mum.

Yesterday he had snacks and then refused dinner.
Today he no snacks followed by a proper howling, snotty, wobbly toddler mega meltdown.when confronted with dinner.

He’s not going to starve.

Clearly there is no one answer. If love to hear some different approaches.

Thanks for any suggestions!

If he doesn’t eat a meal, do not offer a substitute.
Serve the same meal, suitably reheated, for his next meal.
Repeat as necessary.

the world is a different place than when I was growing up.  Our house is now constantly filled with tasty things rather than the more limited selection when I was younger.  It’s difficult to compare really.

One of our daughters would rather go to bed for the night having eaten nothing than be forced to sit at a table for hours until she ate what was put in front of her.  That wasn’t how we wanted her to remember her childhood so we compromise.  I would agree on limiting snacks though, thats just crazy, but we learned what she would and wouldn’t eat and worked around it accordingly.  There were always vegetables, just we learned which ones and how to cook them.

other opinions are available

joys of a toddler, don’t either of you stress yourself or fall out over it. It’s a phase that will pass, eat at a table  its much better than a lap meal to ignore him  whilst he’s throwing a wobbler eventually they come round to be part of the family, may take a while tho. Our youngest did this eventually he realised that everyone was a group he wanted to be part of it.  </span>

I’m in the eat or starve camp. It seems to work. He skips a meal one day and then demolishes it the next.

Wife tried offering alternatives and he basically ending up eating Weetabix every night because he knew what was coming eventually after he’d refused everything else and screamed for long enough.

Now we’re back to not offering alternatives. He’s still a massive pain at meal times but when he does eat he gets a mushed up version of whatever we’re having and he knows the Weetabix is on lockdown.

EDIT: as above, we all sit at the table. No telly or screens. He watches us eat and joins in when he’s in the mood.

Feeling for you, as there’s few thing as frustrating in parenting, especially when they’re so young that reasoning is hard to impossible.

My kids are older now and had slightly different issues, but our negotiations always involved them eating the same good as us and a bit of compromise rather than the stubborn approach my parents had.

But that’s beside the point I think, I suspect it’s more about testing boundaries and asserting some control. As long as his basic nutritional needs are met, the important thing is that you are consistent as parents. IANACP

As I grew up there were no substitutes for dinner. It was eat it or starve.

That being the case, I would have starved.

Whatever the solution, the adults in this arrangement need to come to an agreement. Having a fight every mealtime is just going to traumatise the kid further.

What’s more important to you: “you’ll eat what you’re given” or getting some calories inside a 3-year old?

Also, google “ARFID.”

My friend was mostly threatened with being taken to the children’s home, culminating in actually bing driven there by her mum.

…

If he doesn’t eat a meal, do not offer a substitute.
Serve the same meal, suitably reheated, for his next meal.
Repeat as necessary.

I’d consider both of these scenarios as child abuse. YMMV.

It’s a phase that will pass,

It didn’t for me and I’m 50.

Making a big song and dance about it with a side order of “you’ll eat it or else” is a great way of fostering a lifelong problem. In my very personal opinion.

Any experience of parenting Cougar?

I’d consider both of these scenarios as child abuse

On what grounds is serving the same meal reheated child abuse ? How many three years have you had the pleasure of feeding every night ?

is a great way of fostering a lifelong problem. In my very personal opinion.

Conversely pandering to their request of a different meal from the rest of the table is a great way to foster a lifelong issue also and stop it being a phase thst will pass..

Mines will decide she doesn’t want even what last week was her favourite meal after 2 spoons – wait till you throw it out then ask for a banana/biscuit/yogurt.

Most important thing is don’t make a big deal out of it. You’ll only make.it worse – second most important thing – don’t give them the object of desire when it’s clearly a power play.- but read the room you don’t want them going to bed on an empty stomach – that way you’ll all get no sleep

It’s a phase that will pass,

It didn’t for me and I’m 50.

Still having tantrums when not allowed snacks

no snacks followed by a proper howling, snotty, wobbly toddler mega meltdown. when confronted with dinner.

🙄

Before I’m accused of child abuse I should clarify that when I say ‘eat or starve’ I know our child isn’t starving. He eats all day long at nursery. He eats apples, bananas, chilli, curry, chips, apparently everything he can get his hands on. He’s also fine on a weekend.

He only acts like a lunatic when we’re having the evening meal Monday to Friday because he wants us to bin everything and give him Weetabix.

We’ve 2 kids, 8 and 4 (soon 5).

Have you tried dramatically reducing the portion size at all? I found I was always offering what I thought was a good amount (providing plenty can make you think you are being a great parent) but to the wee people meals can be super overwhelming.

We’ve always adopted the policy that they are offered a wide range of foods and as long as they taste it we’ve been happy with that.

We’ve been through/go through the meltdowns but found it’s essential to de escalate as soon as possible. Game it as much as you can and get them helping setting tables, meal prep and shopping as much as possible.

Critically if it’s causing you stress with your partner then create a plan before meals. If x happens we agree to do y. If y happens then we go to z. Aim for a positive % of results over time not success everyday… Some days are just shit but if over a few months the trend is positive then you’ve done a good job.

He only acts like a lunatic when we’re having the evening meal Monday to Friday because he wants us to bin everything and give him Weetabix

Sounds familiar. Only it’s bananas and yogurt mostly for us….

“you’ll eat it or else” is a great way of fostering a lifelong problem. In my very personal opinion

Not in my very personal opinion. That was my parent’s attitude and all 4 of us grew up with no food “issues” whatsoever.

I’m absolutely not a parent but I’d be with the OP, not his wife (so to speak)

Any experience of parenting

…

On what grounds is serving the same meal reheated child abuse ? How many three years have you had the pleasure of feeding every night ?

I have 12 months of experience of being a 3-year old with an eating disorder, and another ~six hundred months of the same with other ages. So there’s that. If the kid won’t eat then you need to address why rather than forcing the situation, or you’ll just make it worse.

On what grounds is doggedly serving the same meal reheated whilst your child starves acceptable behaviour? That’s messed up. Would you eat that?

So that’s a strong absolutely not from you on the parenting of 3 year olds experience front then. Thanks for clearing that up

Making a big song and dance about it with a side order of “you’ll eat it or else” is a great way of fostering a lifelong problem. In my very personal opinion.

Contrary to the opinions of a number here, I was never forced to eat what was put in front of me, because my parents recognised that not only were there things I wouldn’t eat, there were things that I couldn’t eat without being violently sick. And those things weren’t obvious. Jelly would make me sick, as would mushrooms. I still, to this day cannot eat anything that’s got jelly in or with it, just the thought makes me heave, whereas I’m wishing I had some mushrooms in the house right now. I can’t eat most red meat’s because they have fat in them, which makes me nauseous even thinking about it.

Forcing a child, or anyone, to eat something against their will, is frankly asking for trouble, of one sort or another.

Let me also add that our kids prefer fruit and veg and whole foods to anything processed. They won’t east beige which can be an issue at parties!

Girl will have a burger or hotdog but boy won’t and rarely eats meat. Neither will eat breaded/processed food like nuggets for example.

Forcing a child, or anyone, to eat something against their will, is frankly asking for trouble, of one sort or another.

It’s that, and what ojom just said in that their kids prefer what others won’t normally eat.  For sure try pushing it if it’s just that they want weetabix and the rest of the time they eat normally but there may be other issues involved such as foods that make them feel sick, foods that feel so weird in their mouths that they just can’t get them down etc.  Every child is going to be different and you are going to need to work out a bit of what it is with your child

Eats at Nursery, eats at weekend, doesnt like to eat at home during the week.
Sounds like its the cooking, little fellow may have an refined palate.

So that’s a strong absolutely not from you on the parenting of 3 year olds experience front then. Thanks for clearing that up

And similarly I assume a “strong absolutely not from you” on the having of an eating disorder experience front.

I’m not a parent, though I am tangentially a grandparent so I’ve probably got all this to come. But I know with 100% certainty that faced with “eat it or starve” as a child I’d have chosen the latter.

If there is a genuine problem rather than them just being an arse, you’ll get better results with coercion than threats. Did you google arfid like I suggested?

I did.

It seems like a medical condition you need help with.

That’s not what’s going on with most 3yo and treating all three year olds as if they do is not the right course of action.

Fwiw my 3 year-old eats her food pretty well now* and it was just a phase while she thought she could get bananas , yogurt and other treat food in place of the varied mix of vegetables carbs and meats on her plate

* So much so that she’s deemed the barometer of truth at nursary- the staff realised that if she’s turning down the food then it’s a bad food day and most of the children have refused it ….she’s known for having 2 or even 3 portions at nursery most days

we didn’t have major issues with either of my two although they both had phases. Particularly the one where something that would be eaten morning noon and night if possible three weeks later can be the subject of a toy throwing fit.

One thing we did do was involve them, particularly the younger one who was fussier, in the actual prep. Of course it’s limited what they can do but they don’t know that; even carefully chopping some mushrooms which you can do with a plastic knife, or stirring the pan under supervision invests them in the meal itself and seemed to make them more inclined to then also eat what they’d made.

When my son was around three years old he managed to go three days without eating anything before throwing up and nearly passing out in the middle of a shop.

We decided compromise was a better bet than continuing the battle of wills.

Don’t be too rigid with any approach. Your wife’s family figured out something that worked for them and your family worked out something that worked for you. Neither approach is going to be applicable unchanged to a third family (yours) so just try stuff and figure it out.

Our super mega fussy 3.5 year old is very difficult with food in general, even various biscuits, chocolate etc he is reluctant to eat (I’m not exactly upset about those things). Even getting him to stay at the dining table is hard. My other half just let’s him get on with it and he eats at his pace and the things he likes. I won’t force him to but that’s our situation which may not be the same as others. He is introduced to new things and sometimes likes them,most of the time doesn’t. He won’t touch veg at all but will eat various fruit. It’s not ideal but he does not respond to pressure at all.

Worth pointing out that if adults/humans struggle with food in so many ways then a bit of give and take is required with kids.

Our society has grown with an unhealthy attitude to food and this in turn leads to expectations of behaviour that aren’t always realistic.

Largely this will pass.

I can’t remember ours being too picky but the small one who is now 10 is still not keen on food with flavour spice in it, which ultimately means stuff is made without chillis and the rest of us add chilli sauce.

Also there’s the thing where they scoff stuff at nursery and then reject at home, or vice versa.

I’m from an eat it or starve household and it’s left me with a life long poor relationship with food; I can’t bear to see food go to waste and I find it extremely difficult to not eat leftovers at the end of the meal, or to just stop eating when there is an over abundance of food at a function.

Thanks for the suggestions.

@cougar- I did Google ARFID. Thanks for the suggestion, I’d not come across ARFID. I’m pretty not sure it’s not that.

Tonights dinner was a ( to my taste buds a delicious) roast pork dinner. Two weeks ago the same dinner was scoffed. When he asked what was for dinner he said “mmm delicious”.

The threats of being taken of being force fed or taken to the children’s home are not a suggestion or a plan. They are examples of my parents generations strategies. My grandmother’s was a swift wooden spoon to the back of the head. None of them were particularly successful.

@frankconway

Conversely pandering to their request of a different meal from the rest of the table is a great way to foster a lifelong issue also and stop it being a phase thst will pass..

My mother in law cooks about 3 meals in rotation if there are multiple relatives about. Normally there are about 10+ so fine dining is out and industrial cooking is in, but the fussiness of various people means a ton of meals are off the cards as various people won’t eat this or that.

@olm

Conversely pandering to their request of a different meal from the rest of the table is a great way to foster a lifelong issue also and stop it being a phase thst will pass..

I’ll give that ago. Better than binning loads. Thanks!

@theotherjohnv

One thing we did do was involve them, particularly the younger one who was fussier, in the actual prep

I’ll give that ago as well. He has shown very little interest in that so far, but it’s worth a go!

It seems like a medical condition you need help with.

That’s not what’s going on with most 3yo and treating all three year olds as if they do is not the right course of action.

It is, yes. I have a suspicion it’s genetic.

Whether or not it’s what’s going on with most three year olds (and it probably isn’t, I agree with you), is it not an idea to try and find out why they find eating an issue?

My youngest has a very restricted diet. Crackers yogurt sweet stuff, frozen peas, sausages (phase). If like this don’t give up trying to offer them something different to try from time to time – not every meal time, just every so often. Also take on a different role to your partner. Mrssirromj plays it safe mostly, I ask him to try stuff but don’t force him to it. Sometimes he surpriseea us (like when he ate lettuce 🤯).

Ours used to behave similarly. I think they are learning to control you! There’s loads (too much) advice online about how to get around it, but IMO just do whatever to stay sane and get along as thats probably more important. Habits come and go quite quickly and that age.

Ours definitely eat better when we are all sat around a table without any screens on, though they still sit in front of paw patrol having 3 bowls of shreddies sometimes.

It’s not about controlling you… A child has essentially zero ability to control what happens to them so they can tend to exert some control (learning how to) over things that directly affect their immediate selves.

It’s not about being a dick and winding parents up. They learn that stuff later in life.

At three kids are beginning to realise that they have autonomy, and start to try to exercise some control over their lives. Food is pretty much the one thing that they can do that with. Try different approaches, see what works, be flexible, be nice, try not to get stressed out. When they get a wee bit older offer them the illusion of choice; “Do you want carrots or broccoli or peas?” They think they’re getting to tell you what to cook them, you get to make them eat veg. Everyone’s a winner.

It mostly passes.  Everyone’s allowed a food they don’t like after all.

Little to add really as I don’t have kids.

But my sister and I were different personalities. she would refuse to eat, and the pointles rows that ensued, were one of the things they wished they could have done differently with experience. They tried the re presenting of food time after time, and the hours at the table in front of the same plate. Neither worked. With stubborn kids, they wont. Emotionally, as undeveloped reasoners, painting a kid into a corner where the only option is a humilating stand down for them, most won’t do it, even if they wanted to.

Me, 9 lears later. I ate most things most of the time. I did develop a coupe of key dislikes (eggs, cooked, ie boiled, scrambled, fried, poached) offal and cauliflower being the main ones. That however, was simply cured having found what I did genuinely like and didn’t, they just wern’t served. I ate what was served because *I liked* what was served. I rarely had “a choice”, til near adulthood. I think to be honest mum and dad didn’t really like the things I disliked very much either.

If the child is trying a wide variety of foods, and not *unreasonably* picky, its a reasonable thing to then cater to those preferences. As even in the late 70’s and 80’s both worked, and so we also had exposure to a wider variety of restauanrt/takeaway food than average, and so by the time I was teenage, I’d tried most things.

No snacking and get them to do exercise before eating. Even a walk around the block. I still take my kids out for a quick run if they’re not that hungry at tea time.

Get them involved in the cooking process, my daughter doesn’t like courgettes but ate them after she cooked them at school in HE.

Sometimes kids aren’t hungry, especially in the summer. They won’t starve if they miss a meal or only eat part of a meal.

My kids are good eaters, in that they will eat a large variety of different foods and have a healthy appetite but will stop eating when they’ve had enough. We eat at regular times and all eat the same food.

It’s when we eat out that I sometimes get really annoyed, when they order something then don’t eat it. I hate to see food waste especially when I’ve paid eating out prices. But generally I try to not make a big deal of food.

Whilst this likely isn’t the issue is with the OP, as the father of a 5 year old who has recently been diagnosed with ARFID I think it’s helpful that these things are mentioned out in the open.
The dismissive attitude we have come up against from various people over the past few years isn’t helpful. Your child may be happy to starve and eat the next meal, maybe they are just fussy but that’s not always the case.
I find some of the replies here offensive, not the initial “they are just fussy, let them starve and they’ll soon eat” ones but the ones that after someone has opened up about their experience just dimiss it.
I’m probably over sensitive about this, we now have a child who eats well, albeit with a very limited range of food and it’s a long way off the little girls who point blank refused to eat anyway. We have learnt to embrace “any calories are good calories” but it’s not been easy and there are a lot of old school attitudes out there, even within the professionals