Gaza

Its clumsy wording but exactly how is the officer being anti semitic? How was he displaying hostility or prejudice?

Being “openly Black?”  Being “openly a woman?” Being “openly a disabled person?” How about pointing out to a woman in a hijab that she might inflame a BNP march..?

Perhaps

‘You’re being openly inflammatory with a political agenda on behalf of an apartheid foreign state’

may have been more appropriate…

Its clumsy wording but exactly how is the officer being anti semitic? How was he displaying hostility or prejudice?

Frustration definitely at someone trying to provoke trouble but anything more than that?

Absolutely agree with this – an officer under pressure made a comment that’s been twisted to appear worse than it is.

You can’t not be “openly black”, or “openly a woman”, so that’s a poor comparison. As a European looking male he chose to stress his Jewish faith to provoke a reaction and potentially cause at best a breach of the peace. A Celtic shirt in a Rangers bar is not a bad comparison.

Copper did the right thing in the heat of the moment. If we are going to get ourselves in a knot over it, I would have a lot of sympathy for any copper quitting the job with a resignation letter saying “**** this shit, you do it better if you’re so bloody clever”

Being “openly Black?” Being “openly a woman?” Being “openly a disabled person?”

None of which would make you automatically racist, misogynist or ableist. So again how exactly is it antisemitic? Bearing in mind he and other members of his group were wearing kippahs and some had prayer shawls the copper was clearly identifying them as Jewish based on that rather than on any perceived stereotype.

How about pointing out to a woman in a hijab that she might inflame a BNP march..?

To use a better comparison, if that woman had turned up at a hostage vigil and acted similarly  then I suspect the police might conclude it would be best if she wasnt allowed to.

The sky news footage shows a rather different picture than that portrayed by someone who wants to provoke trouble in an attempt to shut down the marches.

The policeman did a difficult job, and holding him to account for that in the moment choice of phrase is harsh I feel. Some of the responses on this thread, made without the pressure of that situation, are very depressing though.

You can’t not be “openly black”, or “openly a woman”, so that’s a poor comparison.

Several discrimination acts would disagree with your assessment. I disagree with pretty much everything folks like Falter want to achieve, but in this aspect of the treatment he received, he’s right; its discriminatory. If we don’t recognise that even folks that we don’t agree with have rights, then forgive me, but we’re ****.

Even JHJ gets it. The Cop just has to say to him “I suspect that you have inflammatory intent, if you don’t follow my instruction, I’m going to arrest you”

The policeman did a difficult job, and holding him to account for that in the moment choice of phrase is harsh I feel.

I’m not saying the job is easy, and I’d say that he probably didn’t want to have to arrest the Jew at the Pro-Palestinian march, but as soon as he made that assessment, he’s ****, becasue its the wrong decision. Falter went looking for a confrontation, he doesn’t care if that a punch up with the protestors, being arrested or whatever, and he got what he wanted becasue the Met cop on the spot gave him what he wanted because if you gave the Met. an opportunity to **** it up, they will.

This is worthy of further investigation…

It is being reported that the individual standing next to Gideon Falter at the demonstration is actually a key member of Israeli President Isaac Herzog's security team.pic.twitter.com/w901PDosCh

— Lowkey (@Lowkey0nline) April 22, 2024

Whatever the truth of the matter turns out to be, how many people would be in a position to get this degree of political support and media coverage?

‘Even JHJ gets it. The Cop just has to say to him “I suspect that you have inflammatory intent, if you don’t follow my instruction, I’m going to arrest you”’

And what would the policeman’s grounds for believing there was inflammatory intent be?

The Cop just has to say to him “I suspect that you have inflammatory intent, if you don’t follow my instruction, I’m going to arrest you”

With hindsight, it would have been much better wording.

With hindsight being a key factor there. Easy to come up with it after the event,  rather than in the middle of a difficult situation.

And what would the policeman’s grounds for believing there was inflammatory intent be?

I’d hazard a guess at the other police on the route who had previously blocked falter’s “look at me” attempts to walk against the flow of the march with his hired security goons and film crew following him.

It would be so much easier if folk just watched or read what has already been posted.

because if you gave the Met. an opportunity to **** it up, they will.

But that actually isn’t true. The Met police over 2000 protests every year.  They take place in extremely difficult circumstances and involve thousands and thousands of people.  The Met have done their absolute best (with no political support or leadership) to be fair and to facilitate the right of all sides to peaceful protest.

This whole manufacturered scandal, is about one misplaced word, by one Sgt, in the middle of a 15 min plus conversation.

Even with all that going on, the peace was maintained and despite significant attempts to start a fight, no one was hurt.

And what would the policeman’s grounds for believing there was inflammatory intent be?

Really?

Cop’s on a protest march for Palestine, he sees laddo coming towards him and clocks the Kippah. He now has 3 choices. 1 Kippah man has no clue about the protest, has legitimate reasons for being there and thinks he needs/ or wants cops help, 2 Says to the cop I want to join the protest, I believe in their cause, do you think I can, what do I do? or 3. Laddo starts in on him and makes it clear that he’s there for a confrontation. Actions on 1 and 2 are easy, action 3 is Don’t do that mate, or I’m going to nick you. Because that’s what would happen at any other protest.

I suspect cop (and has been briefed by the brass at the Met) doesn’t want to be on the front cover of the Evening Standard arresting a Jew at a Pro-Palestinian march so ties himself up in knots trying not to do what turns out to be the least bad option; arrest the fella for not complying with the reasonable requests.  If the cop had done that, the  story would be the Met defending his legitimate actions, and Laddo having to say that he went there to FA and FO.  Instead we’ve now got this shit show becasue the cop forgot all his training when put on the spot.

Bad Cop.

Some of the responses on this thread, made without the pressure of that situation, are very depressing though.

They depress you because you don’t agree with them? As you know this thread is very closely moderated but if you feel that anything unacceptable has been posted you shouldn’t resist hitting the report button.

I agree that the term ‘openly jewish’ was not the correct one in this situation. I don’t know what Gideon Falter was wearing on that occasion, quite likely a badge saying ‘Stand with Israel’ which is popular with pro-Israelis and he was after all there as the chief executive of a pro Israeli counter demonstration, in which case ‘openly pro Israeli’ would have been a more appropriate choice.

But I do know that the term ‘openly jewish’ is definitely not anti-semitic (apologies if that depressed anyone) On all these demonstrations there are people who are openly Jewish and make a point of being openly Jewish.

If I can work out how to do it (the new forum editor is doing my head in) I will post a photo I took on that very demonstration of someone being ‘openly Jewish’.

I think this Gideon prick is derailing this thread somewhat.

In other news:

Is this worth defending?

Bad Cop.

I think you’re being overly dramatic about it, and I’m going to say, seems quite unlike you.

That ^^ was taken on the demonstration in question. Someone was being both openly Jewish and openly anti Hamas. No one bothered him and he was just fine

His name's Vicentiu Chiculita. 12 years in the Romanian military followed by 10 in private security. Here's his profile on the SQR website https://t.co/cRhzBEjeML https://t.co/JMvNIt7HTj pic.twitter.com/T3IcNw97C7

— Rivkah Brown (@rivkahbrown) April 23, 2024

I have only just seen this article and it has a better photograph than mine

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/palestine-march-antisemitism-london-gideon-falter-b2532585.html

I also particularly liked this comment:

He added that “every major pro-Palestine demonstration in London has included a large Jewish bloc which has received nothing but support and warmth from their fellow demonstrations”.

“Claims that these protests are no-go zones for Jews are completely untrue,” he said.

I have to say that the Jewish Bloc on these demos is surprisingly large, and very well organised with banners etc. Although many Jews attend these demos as individuals.

On the last demo (the one related to in the Falter incident) about half way through I got chatting to a young Jewish guy and what I suspect was his very elderly grandmother (she seemed quite frail so I was impressed that she was on the demo) I commented that they were the first (openly) Jewish people that I had seen on the demo and had started to think that it might be the first pro-Palestine demo where I hadn’t seen a Jewish presence. They told me that the Jewish Bloc was further ahead on the march.

jivehoneyjive

Free Member

Perhaps

‘You’re being openly inflammatory with a political agenda on behalf of an apartheid foreign state’

may have been more appropriate…

The many thousands of people carrying the flags of the PNA, wearing the colours of the PNA, and calling for statehood for Palestine have not been described as bearing a political agenda on behalf of an undemocratic foreign state, I notice.

“Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to…

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.”

Working definition of antisemitism

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

eh ? you can’t accuse me of being an Israeli spy as that’s being antisemitic 😕

I’m unsure what politecameraactions post is referring to or the point of it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lxAqALLNiE

A very level-headed view from a member of the US establishment

KlunkFree Member
eh ? you can’t accuse me of being an Israeli spy as that’s being antisemitic 😕

Obviously if you go around accusing random Jewish people of being Israeli spies, then yes, that’s buying into a common anti-Semitic conspiracy theory.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_Baghdad_hangings

But Gideon Falters “Campaign Against Antisemitism” is a pro Israeli lobbying organisation that has received $500,000 from the Jewish National fund which is committed to recolonising Palestine, there are numerous outspoken voices in this country and in Israel regarding his charity and his weaponisation of the term antisemitism, the Times of Israel and Haaretz carried out investigations into his ties with far right settler groups, I’ll hunt them out as he comes across as a particularly nasty and islamophobic person.

For the record I totally stand by my original comment…

The weaponization of the term antisemitism in defence of Israel has become farcical at this point and shows grave insensitivity to the genuine genocide carried out by an apartheid occupying force.

We’ll leave the role Falter and others of the same ilk played in the intrusion of a foreign state into the democratic process of our nation for another day, as frankly, I feel the focus should be on improving the plight of the Palestinians at this stage.

An alternative viewpoint from a student at the Columbia university campus regarding the antisemitism smears cast against the protests, the involvement of the NYPD to remove the students made the 10 o’clock news on R4.

Link to Jonathan Ben-Menachem’s report on why he’s protesting

The weaponization of the term antisemitism in defence of Israel has become farcical

Only because of the horrors which have been occurring in Gaza for the last six months.

Five years ago zionists in the UK totally had the upper hand and successfully created the myth of rampant anti-semitism as they shut down all criticism of Israel and destroyed the careers of politicians who dared to support justice for Palestine.

The reason they still push the anti-semitism line, despite the growing absurdity of it all, is because they have so little else to offer. It has worked so well for them in the past that they don’t really have a plan B.

so wierd seeing Rivkah Brown turn up in all this, i used to work with here 10 years ago!

There appears to have been a sea change concerning which right-wing UK newspaper is champion of bigotry, the Daily Telegraph appears to have snatched that accolade from the Daily Mail.

Since last Friday the Daily Telegraph has been relentlessly pursuing the Gideon Falter v police story and backing Suella Braverman’s demands that the Met police chief be sacked.

In contrast unlike the Daily Telegraph the Daily Mail seemed to drop the story when it became clear that the 55 second clip didn’t tell the whole story.

Instead the last few days the Daily Mail has been, to their credit, giving huge coverage of this appalling incident where some Muslim women returning from a pro-Palestine demo where exposed to a tirade of extremely offensive racism.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13335981/Man-arrested-police-video-racist-tirade-against-Muslim-women.html

Every demo in London on the issue of fascism or war in the middle east will have seen counter demonstrators in the form of the NF, BNP, EDL or whatever trying to provoke the crowd or causing trouble, same with any pro-rightwing demos which usually attract a decent crowd of lefty socialist worker types. At every single one of these the cops stand in the middle to keep them apart and arrest anyone who refuses to do what they’re told. The Gideon Falter situation was no different.

the Daily Mail has been, to their credit, giving huge coverage of this appalling incident where some Muslim women returning from a pro-Palestine demo where exposed to a tirade of extremely offensive racism.

Don’t be fooled, the DM has always had a single narrative.

All that story does is allow them to claim they are addressing both sides. They’re back to demonizing the Palestinians and Islam again.

50:1 story’s are not a balanced view.

All that story does is allow them to claim they are addressing both sides.

Which is certainly more than what the Daily Telegraph is doing these days.

Things are really kicking off in the United States, it’s like the late 1960s revisited. How long before the National Guard open fire on university campuses?

And so knee jerk has the anti-semitism allegation become that the Times of Israel appears to have missed the irony of using a photo of Jews wearing “not in our name” tee shirts as an example of anti-semitism.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/lapid-says-us-must-act-against-campus-antisemitism-anti-israel-protest-seders-held/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

the Times of Israel appears to have missed the irony of using a photo of Jews wearing “not in our name” tee shirts as an example of antisemitism.

I seem to remember that the claims of antisemitism that came out against the labour party, that effectively removed J.Corbyn from his position, were criticism of the Zionist movement and were attributed to Jewish members and supporters of Labour.

It was the first example I’d come across of Jewish people being accused of antisemitism. It left me rather confused on how someone Jewish could be accused of such a thing.

dyna-tiFull Member
the Times of Israel appears to have missed the irony of using a photo of Jews wearing “not in our name” tee shirts as an example of antisemitism.

I seem to remember that the claims of antisemitism that came out against the labour party, that effectively removed J.Corbyn from his position, were criticism of the Zionist movement and were attributed to Jewish members and supporters of Labour.

I don’t wish to drag the conversation back to Gideon Falter but he (and his Mossad backers) created the “Campaign Against Antisemitism” in 2014 to bring down Jeremy Corbyn/Labour Party.

I don’t wish to drag the conversation back to Gideon Falter

Yeah he’s an all round scumbag. Him speaking on behalf of UK Jewry is a bit like Tommy Robinson doing the same for the English.

Gideon Falter but he (and his Mossad backers) created the “Campaign Against Antisemitism” in 2014 to bring down Jeremy Corbyn/Labour Party.

This is (openly…) an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. Corbyn wasn’t even elected leader of the Labour Party until September 2015.