Gaza

Could be worse, your TV license could be funding propaganda…

Oh…

The UK national media have performed spectacularly over Gaza. They’ve kept the public in the dark about every aspect of UK military support for Israel for over 6 months. An amazing service to the state, performing their assigned tasks with no coercion. Impressive and revealing. pic.twitter.com/WwNPBaSMNN

— Mark Curtis (@markcurtis30) April 21, 2024

Believe it when I see it.

Well in the grand scheme of things I am sure that US sanctions on the Netzah Yehuda battalion will have no practical consequences on the IDF’s operational abilities, so for that reason I wouldn’t dismiss it.

However just the Biden administration talking about it, never mind implementing the sanctions, is hugely politically damaging to Israel and to Netanyahu in particular.

I also don’t doubt that Biden would much rather not go down that road but with this being an election year and the pressure on him, especially from Democrats, to get tough on Israel massively increasing he feels that he has no option but to carry out some Israel/Palestine policy window dressing.

Israeli behaviour in occupied West Bank appears to be particularly unpopular with US voters, including apparently the majority of American Jews.

So a big probelm I hear is the US trying to get some funding approved for Ukraine, it seems like the American system is just log-jammed into paralysis with differences of opinion.

Making the correct noises is one thing, but actually doing something is a different matter. It’s probably a hard sell to the american people at the moment, and it’s also election year (yikes).

The breathless twitter  posted revealing secret RAF involvement in the conflict bears no relation to the story printed in Declassified UK. If you read Declassified UK; it doesn’t mention the flights from Israel to the UK, or the spy missions or sending jets to Israel, it just says the RAF (stationed in Cyprus) was involved in intercepting drones from Iran over Syria and Jordan because of an agreement made in 2020, and targeting Houthi’s launching attacks on international shipping.

The question the article poses is: Should the UK be shielding Netenyahu’s regime (by shooting down drones) from the consequences of its actions? To which the answer is: If it prevents further needless civilian deaths, then probably, yes.

There’s plenty on Declassified UK for all to see

RAF flights to Israel
The MoD also admitted on Tuesday that it has flown close to 50 RAF operated aircraft to Israel since it began bombing Gaza.

The department told parliament: “As of 2 February 2024, a total of 48 RAF operated aircraft have flown to Israel since 7 October 2023.”

It added: “These flights included aircraft used to transport Ministers and senior officials conducting diplomatic engagements with Israel.”

Declassified could find no similar flights in the two months before the Gaza campaign began.

The majority of these flights are vast C-17 and A400 military transport aircraft which have gone from RAF Akrotiri, the sprawling British air base on Cyprus, to Tel Aviv.

The UK government claims the dozens of flights have “provided no lethal or military equipment other than medical supplies to Israel”.

But it is possible the US and Israel are using bases in Britain to move weapons to Israel.

Asked whether the US has used any RAF bases in the UK to transfer weapons to Israel since 7 October 2023, the MoD responded that it “does not comment on Allies’ operations”.

It has the same policy of secrecy about the nature of Israeli military flights in Britain.

Since 7 October, the UK has sent 48 military aircraft to Israel, flown 65 spy missions over Gaza, and at least 9 Israeli military jets have landed in Britain.

Is the @IntlCrimCourt watching?https://t.co/12YhB2PruH

— Declassified UK (@declassifiedUK) April 20, 2024

Furthermore, let’s not forget that the UK continues to supply arms to Israel…

The Foreign Office refuses to answer whether Israel used UK arms in an airstrike on a playground in the Maghazi refugee camp in Gaza on Tuesday, killing at least 11 children.#DCUKParliament pic.twitter.com/y25GgM9UeN

— Declassified UK (@declassifiedUK) April 18, 2024

Although I try to keep up-to-date with what is happening in Palestine I generally go out of my way to avoid reading details of atrocities being committed in Gaza.

This latest news from the Nasser Hospital however was hard to ignore as a couple of weeks ago I went to a talk locally by a British surgeon who has been going to Gaza regularly since 2019 to help teach Palestinian doctors (Medical Aid for Palestine).

He was at the Nasser Hospital earlier this year and during his talk he showed pictures and videos of life inside the hospital. Hundreds of people were literally living inside the hospital quite simply because they had no where else to live and desperately hoped that it was the safest place from Israeli attack.

He showed where families had partitioned off areas of the hospital corridors with sheets hanging from the ceilings to give themselves some sort of privacy. He showed clothing, including children clothing, hanging to dry all along the handrails of the hospital staircase.

So I found reading the following particularly heart wrenching.

“In the hospital courtyard, civil defence members and paramedics have retrieved 180 bodies buried in this mass grave by the Israeli military. The bodies include elderly women, children and young men”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-iran-attack-gaza-palestine-rafah-news-b2532382.html

In the hospital courtyard, civil defence members and paramedics have retrieved 180 bodies buried in this mass grave by the Israeli military. The bodies include elderly women, children and young men

Why does this shit not surprise anyone?

Who can defend this kind of shite?

The question the article poses is: Should the UK be shielding Netenyahu’s regime (by shooting down drones) from the consequences of its actions? To which the answer is: If it prevents further needless civilian deaths, then probably, yes.

How about shielding the civilian Palestinians  from needless deaths at the hands of Isreal’s bombs?

FFS.

Although I try to keep up-to-date with what is happening in Palestine I generally go out of my way to avoid reading details of atrocities being committed in Gaza.

This latest news from the Nasser Hospital however was hard to ignore as a couple of weeks ago I went to a talk locally by a British surgeon who has been going to Gaza regularly since 2019 to help teach Palestinian doctors (Medical Aid for Palestine).

It’s a hard watch/read as they discover body after body, many with their hands tied behind their backs, I suggest you avoid the twitter feed “Eye On Palestine”, their reporting and pictures/videos are showing exactly what’s going on and the less graphic reports are often used by the major news agencies as they can be verified

Is anyone surprised that Israel has yet to provide evidence to back up their claims into UNRWA members taking part in the massacre of Israelis?, link to guardian report

Yet much of the western world stopped funding to UNRWA because of what Israel said, including a ban on funding as part of the Israel aid deal agreed in the US yesterday, a deal which already gave twice as much funding for Isreal to buy weapons as it provided humanitarian support for Palestine. IMO Israel has been very effective in using such propaganda as an extra weapon for genocide in Palestine.

If it’s in the strategic interests of the allied cause, claims don’t need to be substantiated before being broadcast around the world to skew public opinion in favour of the desired outcome;

Joe Biden has tonight persuaded the US ?? House to vote for $26 billion in aid for Israel ??

Including nearly $14bn in unconditional military aid

Last month the same House voted to ban funding for UNRWA

Joe Biden and the U.S. ?? are accomplices to apartheid and genocide. pic.twitter.com/bsJ1UtZNQ5

— Howard Beckett (@BeckettUnite) April 20, 2024

And anyway, we all know those aid organizations are far from innocent; look out they invariably get in the way of Israel’s munitions:

?Israel surgically bombs another international humanitarian aid truck

Israel's war crimes manual: commit a crime so insane & egregious, deny & obscure responsibility. Once you get away with it (like always) & the world gets desensitized, do it over & over again on mass scale… pic.twitter.com/0tYpvzMZTW

— Muhammad Shehada (@muhammadshehad2) April 21, 2024

More than 100 killed as Israeli troops open fire on Gazans crowded around aid convoy https://t.co/r3SF1vF4fk pic.twitter.com/6XLnCQhxaE

— The Last Word (@TheLastWord) February 29, 2024

.@JulietteTouma explains that yesterday Israel attacked an UNRWA convoy carrying aid to the north of the Gaza strip. For the third time. pic.twitter.com/mPrMzwHHw6

— Saul Staniforth (@SaulStaniforth) February 6, 2024

Senior adviser to the Israeli PM tells Sky News 'it is not clear what happened yet' following UNRWA reports that Israeli soldiers fired at an aid convoy returning from northern Gaza.

He adds: "Israel does not target aid convoys" and are 'facilitating' their entrance into Gaza. pic.twitter.com/HsuMsCfWEk

— Sky News (@SkyNews) December 29, 2023

"Too often aid workers are being killed in #Gaza"@JulietteTouma tells @BBCNews UNRWA is absolutely devastated by the killing of @WCKitchen humanitarian workers when their convoy was reportedly hit by Israeli Forces.

At @UNRWA alone, 176 of our team members have been killed. pic.twitter.com/qtbstw5mnm

— UNRWA (@UNRWA) April 2, 2024

The last thing needed is people highlighting that thanks to the blockade this whole situation was going on well before the ‘war’ broke out…

"Gaza has been under blockade for 17yrs… 60% of its inhabitants are already dependent on food aid before this crisis, so before the 7th Oct Gaza received around 100 trucks a day full of assistance…"

Tamara Alrifai from @UNRWA puts one convoy of 20 trucks into perspective pic.twitter.com/m4Dv18axzp

— Saul Staniforth (@SaulStaniforth) October 22, 2023

What do we make of the Met Police row and the CAA chief exec exercising his civil right to cross the path of the proPalestinian demo. Suella Braverman was defending it on R4 this morning while claiming she’d seen enough clips to know what happened. I hope they have her on again tomorrow now the full set of clips have come available.

IDK – he’s technically right of course but putting on a Celtic shirt and walking through an Orange Order march is also technically a right but equally dumb as f****. Is that victim blaming?

What do we make of the Met Police row and the CAA chief exec

Seems the cop was being a whopper, no? Not the first time such an incident has been caught on camera.

It would be quite entertaining watching compilation clips on YT of cops being clueless if it wasn’t for the significant power they wield. One could certainly hold the view that their selection and training of individuals is sub-optimal off the back of some of these interactions.

Given the fact that falter is a staunch zionist with very questionable settler rights to colonise Palestine along with his desperation to create a scene by walking through the protest in multiple places with his film crew and hired security goons to protect him I figure that Suella will double down on his right to act like a dick,

right to act like a dick

If they outlawed that this forum would be a desolate wasteland overnight.

relapsed_mandalorianFull Member
What do we make of the Met Police row and the CAA chief exec
Seems the cop was being a whopper, no?

If that’s your take/understanding from falter’s interaction with the protest/police interaction then……………I dunno?…..not worth my explanation

Seems the cop was being a whopper, no? Not the first time such an incident has been caught on camera.

Really? Have you looked at later / longer versions of the footage?

not worth my explanation

Meh, I’m not under any illusion that my thoughts or words make any difference to this conflict in any way shape or form so you do what you like old bean.

Really? Have you looked at later / longer versions of the footage?

Not really because I don’t give that much of a **** to do so. So are we saying Falter is the whopper for trying to induce a conflict to cry victim?

Is this what you’re referring to?

I’ve got to say that I think the old bill done a good job of protecting him and preventing a situation where he was likely to get his head stoved in.

(how do you report ads on YouTube videos… I’ve came up about Sadiq Kahn that I didn’t agree with?)

Got to say, the geezer got off lightly compared to Jewish anti-zionist protestors in Germany…..

37% of arrests due to anti-zionist protestors are of Jewish people despite Jews representing less than 1% of the German population.

Great Police work although they should of arrested him he was there to just cause trouble.

Not really because I don’t give that much of a **** to do so.

Enough though to have a go at a policeman doing a bloody good job of preventing a potentially serious breach of the peace and who knows what else. Same as some senior Gov politicians who are (deliberately) ignoring the later footage to continue to call for the Met Chief to be sacked.

So are we saying Falter is the whopper for trying to induce a conflict to cry victim?

That’s an interpretation, for sure. Others may see as exercising a right to dress as he wishes and go where he wishes.

“What do we make of the Met Police row and the CAA chief exec exercising his civil right to cross the path of the proPalestinian demo…he’s technically right of course but putting on a Celtic shirt and walking through an Orange Order march is also technically a right but equally dumb as f****.”

1) I think it’s really a separate topic about British things, and not about Gaza that is the subject of this thread

2) Your Orange Order March analogy is apt. Also, the arrest to prevent breach of the peace by the guy shouting “paedo” at Prince Andrew at Prince Philip’s funeral parade in Edinburgh. It’s not saying the person is wrong or doing something illegal, but it’s temporarily interfering with someone’s liberty to stop a fight, even if they weren’t the bad guy.

3) I must be getting old and reactionary but the cop’s use of the phrase of “openly Jewish” sounds very ugly from the quiet of my kitchen table, and I am no friend of the Met…but failing to come up with the exact right phrasing of a fairly complicated situation when you’ve been up since 5am and listening to people yell for hours…it’s not the most awful thing that’s happened recently.

Same as some senior Gov politicians who are (deliberately) ignoring the later footage to continue to call for the Met Chief to be sacked.

Unsurprising. Standard for the Met though, any kind of high profile issue and the standard response is to call for the Chief to be sacked. Especially since the likes of SB don’t have that cabinet position anymore. The creep towards American political culture moves forward.

That’s an interpretation, for sure. Others may see as exercising a right to dress as he wishes and go where he wishes.

They’re not as mutually exclusive as some might try to sell. Both can be true. Exposure serves a purpose whatever the outcome.

Really? Have you looked at later / longer versions of the footage?

Yup, when the story first broke my immediate reaction was that the copper was being a muppet and had read too much nonsense in the right-wing press.

I have been on 10 pro-Palestinian demos in Central London since Oct 7 and I have seen people being “openingly Jewish” on every single one of them, including wearing kippot as the geezer in question was, and it doesn’t cause the slightest problem whatsoever.

I thought copper’s behaviour was simply giving ammunition to the likes of Suella Braverman and those who want to silence any criticism of Israel. I was bitterly disappointed.

I then read the whole transcript of the incident when it became available and jeezus that copper was being incredibly reasonable and professional and remarkably patient.

In very sharp contrast to Gideon Falter who was being totally disingenuous, and very obviously desperately trying to provoke trouble on that day so that it would generate negative publicity for those criticising Israel.

I was actually really disappointed that any apology had been issued.

must be getting old and reactionary but the cop’s use of the phrase of “openly Jewish” sounds very ugly from the quiet of my kitchen table, and I am no friend of the Met…but failing to come up with the exact right phrasing of a fairly complicated situation when you’ve been up since 5am and listening to people yell for hours…it’s not the most awful thing that’s happened recently.

Quite.

Same situation, but a guy wearing the colours of a water melon and trying to stroll through a group of Jewish/Isreali supporters is also likely to cause antagonism.

In this case, police done good.

Gideon

Honestly, didn’t even know this was a name associated with the Jewish faith… Always associated it with being a sign of someone being an upper class, self entitled prick.

1) I think it’s really a separate topic about British things, and not about Gaza that is the subject of this thread

Fair, but didn’t want to start another thread for Mark to have to monitor that could quickly get into similar turmoil, and it’s not entirely unrelated.

Poor Gideon

Got to say, the geezer got off lightly compared to Jewish anti-zionist protestors in Germany…..

And in Israel. The gratuitous  violence in this clip is astonishing.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-crack-down-anti-zionist-032104267.html

I think that the one big lesson of the last six months, apart from the depths that the Israeli government will plummet, is just how far removed the current situation is from Palestinians verses Jews.

The situation is very much Palestinians, and their supporters throughout the world, verses zionism. I have been relentlessly impressed throughout the last six months by Jewish supporters  of Palestine. And how many zionists aren’t even Jewish.

Enough though to have a go at a policeman doing a bloody good job of preventing a potentially serious breach of the peace and who knows what else

There isn’t a an easy way to deal with this, “He had tried persuasion but the plaintiff refused to be persuaded or to accept the sensible guidance he had been given but in my judgment that was not a sufficient basis to conclude that a breach of the peace was about to occur or was imminent. There must, I consider, be a sufficiently real and present threat to the peace to justify the extreme step of depriving of his liberty a citizen who is not at the time acting unlawfully.” FOULKES v. CHIEF CONSTABLE OF THE MERSEYSIDE POLICE  1998

I’m not arguing your perception of what might happen, but Breach of the Peace has been argued over for hundreds of years, it isn’t clear now and appeal cases take years to get to Court, e.g. R(Hicks and others) v. Met Police (2011) was finally heard in 2017

1) I think it’s really a separate topic about British things, and not about Gaza that is the subject of this thread

^^Hopefully relevant to conclude the discussion, but please delete if necessary

the extreme step of depriving of his liberty a citizen who is not at the time acting unlawfully.

I haven’t seen any evidence that the police officer was attempting to deprive Gideon Falter of his liberty. In fact the evidence suggests that the police officer was offering to help him go to where he claimed he wanted to go.

When legal demonstrations and organised events occur it is perfectly legal and acceptable for roads to be closed and for normal road users to be denied access – see Sunday’s London marathon as a very recent example.

There is also evidence that Gideon Falter was attempting to deliberately antanogise those on the march by walking against them in the opposite direction, which would not have been lawful.

He could have legally demonstrated his opposition to the demo if he had followed the police instructions. I was on that demo and I saw the two or three dozen counter demonstrators waving Israeli flags at a point on the demo’s route – they now seem to do it on every demo. The police keep them and those on the march separated, as you expect and there is never any trouble between them. In fact it surprises me how much the counter demonstrators and their Israeli flags are mostly completely ignored. On that day I didn’t even hear them being jeered as the demonstrators went past, which I found quite remarkable.

Which presumably is why Gideon Falter did not want to remain with them (the organisation which he represents was behind the counter demonstration) and instead wanted to go into the crowd to antagonise them – he didn’t like being ignored.

Is that victim blaming?

Yes it is, but the cops also have a responsibility for keeping the peace. You’re as likely to be arrested for wearing a celtic shirt headed for a rangers bar as you are being “openly Jewish” headed for a pro Palestinian march. Falter’s an idiot, but then so is the cop. It may have well been a spur of the moment comment, but try on “openly black” for size instead and see how it feels. Falter is lucky not to have been arrested. The cop will be lucky to get away with a telling off, which knowing the Met, they’ll struggle on wrestling with what to do with this cop for a couple of months before eventually getting it wrong, no doubt

The word they’re using to claim antisemitism is ‘openly’ but thats the sum of it.

The guy is clearly Agent Provocateur, and the only reason for him being there is to antagonize the crowd, hopefully be attacked verbally, or even physically, which the other in his group will film, and the goal is to try to force the government to stop the anti war protestors. Well thats how I interpret it.

Simply there to illicit trouble.

The word they’re using to claim antisemitism is ‘openly’ but thats the sum of it.

It’s all it needs. It’s anti Semitic, end. Yes the cop was provoked but I would’ve thought training is available to cops, no?

The cops should’ve been briefed better. Falter is there to get the video he got, or something close to it. The cop should’ve been much more proactive, but for whatever reason – fearful of the repercussions of arresting a Jew at a pro-Palestinian  march probably  but with hindsight that would’ve been infinitely preferable to the shambles we’ve got now, and instead of policing marches properly we’re in an anti-Semitism row, which is equally beneficial to bell ends like Falter and CAA.

I thought the cops had intelligence, the amount of filming they do at marches these days, you’d have thought that the instant Falter showed up, he’d have been marked?

I haven’t seen any evidence that the police officer was attempting to deprive Gideon Falter of his liberty.

“Threat of arrest
The campaigner then spoke to another officer who said if he remained he would be arrested.
He was told his presence was “antagonising” a large group of people “and we can’t deal with all of that if they attack you”. https://news.sky.com/story/sky-news-footage-reveals-new-details-of-exchange-between-police-and-antisemitism-campaigner-called-openly-jewish-13120104

“He again moved to the pavement, where protesters had gathered with flags and placards, leading a police officer to put a restraining arm around him.” (same article)

Placing a person under lawful detention against their will and denying them of their liberty for the purposes of law enforcement. https://lawi.org.uk/arrest/

Openly Jewish…. Is this the phrase we’re getting upset about?

FFS

It’s all it needs. It’s anti Semitic, end.

Care to point out the exact breach?

Its clumsy wording but exactly how is the officer being anti semitic? How was he displaying hostility or prejudice?

Frustration definitely at someone trying to provoke trouble but anything more than that?

Gideon Falter isn’t just any random pro Israeli bod, he is the chief executive of the Campaign Against Antisemitism who had actually organised a static demonstration of two or three dozen Israeli flag waving counter demonstrators specifically along the pro-Palestine march, of many thousands, to antagonise them – they could have done their Israeli flag waving anywhere else in London on that day.

However everyone was cool about it, it didn’t bother the pro-Palestine demonstrators and the police were happy to let them have their little Israeli flag waving counter demonstrator.

The question which should be asked is why, as chief executive of the organisation behind the counter demonstration, wasn’t Gideon Falter with them? The transcript of the conversation with the copper shows that they were nearby. The copper was obviously aware that Falter wanted to cause provocation.

As for the term openly Jewish….. I am a member of Palestine Solidarity Campaign so for very obvious reasons I was on the demo which they organised. Had I broken away and decided to mingle with the pro Israeli demo wearing a keffiyeh the police would have stopped me for being openly pro Palestinian, and clearly wanting to provoke a reaction.