Gatwick, drones

Was discussing this with a AI programmer friend of mine, either it’s self charging or someone is being clever and dead dropping batteries at various locations, automating the landing and quickly changing the battery before leaving.

Or they have more than one. Just drop it into a tree and let Matt find it and return it.

I’m going with climate change activists.

See the bit about doing it for political reasons, don’t you think they might want to publicise that? Claim some glory? Make a point?

still the army are on site now, hopefully they brought manpads.

Whilst the detection / tracking systems on a Stormer would be good for this, I wouldn’t want to be the operator loosing off an HVM in London..
Maybe they shouldn’t have scrapped Boris’s water canon? That would have been perfect!

J

I’m going for multiple drones popping up from locations, invading briefly on autonomous routes then being left for dead. The in-out nature makes tracking difficult and authorities don’t know when/where next one is coming from. I’d assume there’s been some sort of “ransom message” that means it’s unclear how many drones exist or when the next one is coming. Perps could have planted drones weeks ago, so unlikely to appear on CCTV

Whilst the detection / tracking systems on a Stormer would be good for this

The man portable version could be deployed around the site. As you say though, should probs hold back on the Starstreaks

See the bit about doing it for political reasons, don’t you think they might want to publicise that? Claim some glory? Make a point?

Do that and they risk being caught. There’ll be some green anarchist types out there who will only be interested in the chaos it causes and the money it costs the airlines. In fact if it’s a sustained campaign it could bring the airline industry to it’s knees. Bye bye cheap flights!

On the Beeb 6pm news they inferred a drone was seen around 9pm. Flights stopped and investigations started , the airport was about to re-open around 3am and the drone re-appeared , so they shut down again.
The flight time in each instance may only have been a few minutes, so in theory could be on the same set of batteries. Or, they may well have piggybacked another set of batteries underneath
The perps then land the thing , wait till they hear aircraft and take off again .
The drone is not constantly flying,or else plod would have got out their lacrosse bats and caught it by now

No one was filming their nightride round Tilgate with a drone last night were they?

If it was a bomb they would blast it, but seeing as it’s just an inconvenience, rather than a threat to life the rules of engagement don’t allow you to fire.

WRT Cobrakai’s talk of fuel diversions – “minimum fuel” emergency call means “I might land below my minimum Reserve fuel” which is 30 mins fuel.

A fuel “Mayday” means “I will land below my minimum Reserve Fuel”

A diversion airfield needs to have the required Fire Cover for commercial operations, not just the ability to land.

The standard diversion for LGW is Heathrow. Heathrow is a capacity limited airport, so the first diversions would have arrived & had to join the holding stack. They would have been told “15 minute delay” which they probably didn’t have enough fuel for, and still land with the 30 minutes Minimum Reserves as above.

As soon as this started, Heathrow would have stopped departures, freeing up both runways for diverting aircraft to land.

Hope this makes sense!

You lot worry me over how creative and knowledgeable you on creating a terror attack….!

All you need is a little technical knowledge and a creative imagination.
Personally, I was wondering earlier today if this wasn’t a sort of meat-space DoS attack, it rather has the hallmarks of one, and could be a proof of concept.
I wouldn’t be too surprised to see similar events happening in other parts of the world in future.
This does have a certain Gibsonesque look to it, too. If there are reports of weird flying penguins and mantarays, then things have become seriously meta!

Police now using some interesting tech. Photo earlier on from roof of Gatwick Police station

Tech they are using Fancy Pants Drone Stuff

Only works on DJI drones though

Remember, if they are industrial standard drones and they are basically using them in a disposable fashion – then the cost of this is going to be in the tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands to pull off Mike.

I’d be amazed if they were not!! Not sure what the tennis ball is for?

Should be zero sympathy for anybody doing this. Within minutes it should have been taken out of the sky. If and when traced to the owner, massive fines and jail time to deter anybody and to compensate everybody that has been affected.

I don’t think this is actavists.

For one, no one seems to be proclaiming ownership and activists are generally seeking publicity for their cause.

For two, this level of behaviour will destroy sympathy for their cause, even if its something along the lines of climate or pollution of some kind.

I wonder if they are refuelling the drones by very noisy locations, so the engines cannot be heard as they take off and land.

If they are self charging or carrying bulk batteries, I wonder if it would increase the radius they can operate in by much, esp if they are pre programmed.

I wonder if they have an ‘inside man’ at the airport, would seem a possible.

As no one is being killed (as in terrorists) its got to be for money, the expenditure and planning on this is too high for anything else in my view.

Remember, if they are industrial standard drones and they are basically using them in a disposable fashion – then the cost of this is going to be in the tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands to pull off Mike.

Let me know when they have one there 😉 How much is that for the disruption being caused? It’s good value for money so far. Although if you have invented hot swap battery stations that you can hide in the bushes I reckon red bull would be interested or maybe go pro.

rmacattack

Member
Should be zero sympathy for anybody doing this. Within minutes it should have been taken out of the sky. If and when traced to the owner, massive fines and jail time to deter anybody and to compensate everybody that has been affected.

Ah such a radical solution, how did nobody think of that before. We must send this on right away to the police they will be so grateful!!!

Tech they are using Fancy Pants Drone Stuff

Only works on DJI drones though

You’d have to hope that DJI sold those at cost price. Otherwise it’s an awesome concept – selling both the problem and the solution.

How many million of pounds is being lost by the airport and air companies, per hour? Would make a big ransom look cheap perhaps?

Within minutes it should have been taken out of the sky.

Within minutes it was already back on the ground

If you’re an expert firearms/ weapons team, your entire training is about hitting the thing you mean to hit, not anything else – including picking the right weapon/ calibre (“biggerer!!” :D) and not missing.

Even the best will miss occasionally and thats ignoring, if you use a 50 cal if it did hit there would be a good chance of it keeping on going. One of the first thing people get taught when learning to shoot is to make sure you know what is behind the target.
That said I would go for Phalanx and position it so the rounds end up in Redhill.

Not sure what the tennis ball is for?

That’s the reward toy for the trained retriever they’ve got ready to go and retrieve the drone after it drops out of the sky…

If you’re an expert firearms/ weapons team, your entire training is about hitting the thing you mean to hit, not anything else – including picking the right weapon/ calibre (“biggerer!!” :D) and not missing.

I’m pretty sure any trained sniper would laugh in your face at the suggestion that they could just shoot a drone out of the sky! Frankly, the idea is preposterous, there is zero chance of predicting where a drone could appear, its altitude, speed, direction of travel and size would make it pretty much impossible to track with a rifle fitted with a telescopic sight, the narrow angle of view through a scope makes tracking unfeasible – try tracking a fast moving close-up aircraft through a 10x telescope or binoculars sometime.

All those people talking about hot swapping batteries etc – have you clocked exactly how little sighting we are talking about? I’d be amazed if the drones used have been in the air for more that 10 minutes in total in the last 24 hours. Up, get seen, back down again. And repeat a few hours later. Pretty much any commercial or even top end toy could keep this up for another couple of days before it needs it’s first battery change.

And the shooting it down etc – Gatwick perimeter is 10km long. You are going to be very luck to be at the right place at the right time to be in range with anything realistic. In comparison to protecting the immediate airspace around a warship this is a massive task.

Thanks for the reminder Dan. Mats 1 has been in the loft for while and its hard enough trying to keep up with the changes over the past 2 years! We did get a briefing that min fuel was a statement of commitment to the designated airfield.

If only these people could see the safety implications they have caused…..

“All those people talking about hot swapping batteries etc – have you clocked exactly how little sighting we are talking about? I’d be amazed if the drones used have been in the air for more that 10 minutes in total in the last 24 hours.”

The only drones I have any knowledge of have batteries that last about 20 mins, which does not seem a lot, but then they are only consumer photography drones. What sort of flight time do commercials have on a standard battery?

Live updates here

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/gatwick-flights-disruption-live-updates-as-drone-sightings-cause-busy-airports-runway-to-close-a4022201.html

This thread has it all : Activists who are shy from publicity, weapons experts, military grade snipers, the finest tech minds in the world but what we need is some good old CCTV we can enhance!!

The only drones I have any knowledge of have batteries that last about 20 mins, which does not seem a lot, but then they are only consumer photography drones. What sort of flight time do commercials have on a standard battery?

So at least enough for another day. Most DJIs bar the very smallest will do 26/27mins. Full on commercials up to 35-40mins.

Thanks for info, interesting.

Although if you have invented hot swap battery stations that you can hide in the bushes I reckon red bull would be interested or maybe go pro.

Docking stations have already been done. It’s not swapping a battery, it’s simply a charging station. The reason it’s not on any commercial drones is that there’s little point outside of this use. A bit of object recognition is all you need really, and some code to get the drone to line up with the charger.

Tomorrow’s papers look like they’re pointing the finger at ecoloons.

Nice to see that those in charge had a plan for something like this.

Yep still a very expensive solution though, might well be the case but it’s just speculation at this point.
Where as 3k on Ebay would get you enough to get you going here, when you look at inside jobs and intelligence
https://www.gatwickairport.com/flights/
You can find when any plane is going to be ready to leave, just need to pop one up when boarding is competed to nullify the air space. Rinse and repeat once you have binned the drone.

Nice to see that those in charge had a plan for something like this.

Banning drone sales? Remember this is still a country where we sell rocket propelled explosive charges to the public!!

The BBC reported about three or four days ago on public statements made by a new group called Extinction Rebellion calling for non violent direct action. It’s a bit of a coincidence….

“Most drones have technology onboard that stops them flying near airports” – is that actually true?

“Most drones have technology onboard that stops them flying near airports” – is that actually true?

Yep, was reported that if it’s registered and has a GPS (IE legit sold not ebay or unmodified) they have the no fly locations inbuilt and they return to owner or set down when they enter one. Hence autonomous flying is a real thing

huh, didn’t realise that

If it is eco activists, at what point do we start to support them? Scientists have been warning of impending devastation for decades and we’ve done sweet FA about it. What’s worse in the grand scheme of things? Stopping a few thousand people from their mostly frivolous travels during the annual festival of consumerism, or the continuing destruction of the natural world?

This kind of thing is only going to ramp up in the coming years, at some point we either need to support it or accept the fact we’re ****.

is that actually true?

I’m not sure it is. I’ve got a little DJI Spark and took it to the outer hebs last year. I flew it (low and close, I use it mostly like a tripod/dolly) in what is technically the Barra airport control zone. But as the tide was in I was pretty sure I was safe 😉 . The controller went a bit nuts with warnings but was happy enough for me to acknowledge them all and continue flying.

Whilst the detection / tracking systems on a Stormer would be good for this, I wouldn’t want to be the operator loosing off an HVM in London..

I cant let that go, they might call it London Gatwick, but its Brighton to all intents and purposes 🙂

I’m not sure that Barra is really the best example of an airfield you could use here 😀

If it is eco activists, at what point do we start to support them? Scientists have been warning of impending devastation for decades and we’ve done sweet FA about it. What’s worse in the grand scheme of things? Stopping a few thousand people from their mostly frivolous travels during the annual festival of consumerism, or the continuing destruction of the natural world?

Whatever device you are using to post that is obviously using electrical power of some sort. Why create extra CO2 by posting a non-essential opinion?

I’m not sure that Barra is really the best example of an airfield you could use here

It’s the only one I’m daft enough to fly a drone near! 🙂

However, I’m not sure the software could tell the difference – a no fly zone is a no fly zone from what I can tell.