I have a Classic, use the larger filter basket as I like a strong brew and I burr grind beans with a Dualit grinder. Beans are kept in the freezer and are usually very fresh.

However, I have to have the grinder set to the finest setting and I have to tamp down really hard to get a flow that I would expect (10 secs+ to pour an espresso with a nice crema) so I end up pushing the grinds through the filter and into my drink. Any ideas on how I can avoid this?

what grinder? EDIT: sorry, seen it’s a dualit…

what are the grinds like, coarse or fine?

you should be getting 25 secs for a double espresso, are you using the pressurized baskets?

2nd edit, what beans are you using? i wouldn’t keep them in the freezer tbh, airtight container somewhere dark and cool is best, not the fridge.

Dualit sell small filter papers to pop in the bottom of the brew head which might work. Dunno if they will fit your machine.
RM.

At the moment I am using Whittard’s Guatemalan Elephant Beans.

Just using the standard basket that came with the machine – the larger of the two (it came with three baskets, a single, double and pod. Pod one binned).

The grind is fine (clearly, it goes through the filter) but nowhere as fine as when I had a local shop help out with some tests – they ground some beans on their pro machine and the machine couldn’t even push water through 😆

10 secs+ to pour an espresso with a nice crema

it should be more like 25 seconds and should almost choke the machine then a 3-4 second pause before a thin viscous stream of coffee that doesn’t start blonding at least until 20seconds have passed.

sounds like the grinder doesn’t go fine enough and your dosage weight may be too low. i use a cheap £8 pocket digital scale to check do age now and again (should be anything from 18-22g with a gaggia double basket)

is it a proper basket not that ‘crema-device’ one with the plastic widget that should be binned as soon as you unpack the machine?

it should be more like 25 seconds

I know, but even on the finest setting and tamped as hard as I can, this doesn’t happen.

is it a proper basket not that ‘crema-device’ one with the plastic widget that should be binned as soon as you unpack the machine?

Yes, the standard metal double basket like this

BTW, when I use the single one, the amount of coffee I like meant I can’t fit the handle to the machine.

Strange. Everything clean, back flushed, etc?

Something weird about frozen beans maybe? Never done this.

May be worth backing the grinder off a lot and seeing if the flow rate increases? Maybe grind is too fine? Though this really should clog the machine.

Maybe worth posting a photo of the grind and one of the used puck in the basket.

try upping the dose, if that doesn’t work your grinder does not go fine enough.
you should be able to choke the machine with a 20g dose on the finest setting and then work back from there to get a good pour. 10 seconds is too short.

what weight of coffee are you using per shot?

it does sound like the grinder th…

No idea of weight, I just base it on grinding from the timer setting ‘4’ on the grinder.

Perhaps I go back to the single basket and less coffee and try for a longer brew?

you need between 16 – 20 grms for a double shot (i use 16).

i’d check your weights before you buy a new grinder.

Silly question – how do I check weight?

Sounds like a fault with the grinder. I have the same setup and use frozen beans. If I set my Dualit (older model) on the finest setting it’s so fine that the Gaggia (Classic) cannot espress any coffee at all. It needs to be a couple of notches off. If you have the older model it can be modified for a finer grind.

Silly question – how do I check weight?

Scales!

as JonM said, there are mods out there for most grinders, to chnage the grind…

Yup it’s the grind. I have the same grinder and had to modify it to get it fine enough. You basically take tha case off and there’s a white ring that you can adjust to make it go finer. Google it for more info, easy enough to do.

You need to modify your grinder.

A bit fiddly, but not too hard. Ultimately though a Dualit will struggle to get fine enough, or adjustable enough for good espresso. I had one, but now use a secondhand Mazzer Superjolly that didn’t cost too much more than the Dualit.

I’m a Gaggia Classic user too. 17g of *fresh* beans (the important bit – not Whittards!) in a double basket, a properly sized tamper and a bottomless portafilter make for a pretty decent shot.

As said above (twice now, but I’ll say it again for emphasis!), it sounds like you need to slightly modify the grinder. I had that exact grinder, and a Gaggia Classic, and had to do the mod to make it work. The grinder then worked well for 5 years or so until it eventually wore out and I got a posher one.

the important bit – not Whittards

Don’t knock them – easily as fresh as any I have bought from the usual suspects (I order them online and they are fresher than in the shops, although the shops do sell out of that bean very quickly too).

Apologies in advance for the hijack. A question for MrSmith.

is it a proper basket not that ‘crema-device’ one with the plastic widget that should be binned as soon as you unpack the machine?

I’ve a Gaggia Classic, and it’s pretty much impossible to avoid pebbledashing the kitchen with the crema device removed. In fact, I lost the dratted thing a while back and am using a stainless steel presta valve cap to inhibit the flow instead. 🙄

Are you suggesting I should invest in a new, proper basket that doesn’t need the placcy nubbin, or is there something else I should be doing? Ta in advance…

To hijack MY thread back 😉

So, as a present to myself, what burr grinder should I upgrade to?

Another Q to re-hijack johndoh’s un-hijacking of his hi-jacked thread 😀

As I can’t find my instruction book 😕

Descaling…how much and how long for? I’m thinking making up a kettle strength de-scaling solution and just filling to max in the water holder. Would that be about right? The last time I descaled, the machine worked like a dream but I can’t remember one or two details…should one de-scale the baskets as well?

Descaling is quite simply done as you describe, I have never tried that backflushing thing, but we are in a soft water area so I don’t suppose it is that important.

I just use descaling sachets from Lakeland, not the expensive Gaggia ones.

backflushing is nothing to do with soft/hard water but ground coffee going back up past the shower screen.
if the machine is a few years old it’s worth replacing the group head gasket and undoing the screen and block behind and giving it a clean. you might be surprised at what you find

I’ve a Gaggia Classic, and it’s pretty much impossible to avoid pebbledashing the kitchen with the crema device removed. In fact, I lost the dratted thing a while back and am using a stainless steel presta valve cap to inhibit the flow instead.

Are you suggesting I should invest in a new, proper basket that doesn’t need the placcy nubbin, or is there something else I should be doing? Ta in advance…

yes get a proper double basket, they are not expensive (unless you want a VST one with the hole uniformity certificate)

should one de-scale the baskets as well?

better off with a tub of puly-caff for that and use that for back flushing as well.

My folks have a dualit grinder, I think anyway. The kind where you have to rotate the whole hopper to adjust the grind. Anyway, even on its finest setting it’s way too coarse.

I doubt grinds are coming through the basket tbh. Probably stuff that’s been stuck to the rest of the machine and is simply falling off into the cup.

Coffee brewing generally calls for a standard amount of coffee for a given type of brewing. If you want it stronger you’re supposed to either leave it stew for longer in a cafetiere, or add more shots if it’s espresso.

MrSmith – many thanks. Most helpful! Now I need to decide whether to spend my Amazon vouchers on a grinder or a basket…

if the machine is a few years old it’s worth replacing the group head gasket and undoing the screen and block behind and giving it a clean. you might be surprised at what you find

Yep! 😡

Gaskets can be bought chepaly enough on amazon. Bit of a fiddly arse job but plenty of instructions on internet for changing it.

I wonder if a descale before doing any of that would help everything come apart a bit easier?

yes get a proper double basket, they are not expensive (unless you want a VST one with the hole uniformity certificate)

Can recommend a bottomless portafilter. If there is a problem with your grind, distribution or tamp then it’ll be very obvious. Nice when you get it right…

I wonder if a descale before doing any of that would help everything come apart a bit easier?

Possibly but my second hand machine was beyond that. I needed a screwdriver to scrape the scale away between the boiler and the block the shower screen attaches to, there was just a small gap between the 2 that just had a tiny channel for the water to get to one of the ports through the scale, no amount of descaler would shift that.
The shower screen was black with coffee crud even after a scale and back flushing with puly caff.
The gasket was brittle and needed much persuasion, best method is to use self tappers and screw into it and then use pliers on the screws.

All good advice above regarding the grinder. I had one and it was incapable of producing an espresso grind, even after modifying. I’m now using a Eureka Mignon and couldn’t be happier with it.

One other thing to check is the pressure coming from the machine. As I recall, the Classic leaves the factory pumping around 13bar which enables it to be used with the coffee pods, but normal ground espresso is best made with 9-10bar. If you google it you’ll see how to reduce the pressure and various methods of measuring the pressure, but just make sure the machine is unplugged before you open it up and start tinkering.

You need 14g of coffee for a double shot. Most measuring scoops are fairly close to that. You shouldn’t need that much pressure to tap it down. If you are tamping down that hard and getting such a fast flow the grind is too coarse as said.

You aren’t pushing anything through that basket. Do you have a small angled brush to clean the shower screen and around where the group gasket sits? You’ll be amazed at the coffee that ends up in there.

I got my cleaning stuff from Happy Donkey – descaler sachets, puly caff, a backflushing blank basket and a brush. Give it a go now and then and you keep it running nicely. I found a marked single shot glass, a stopwatch and digital scales helped keep my coffee pulling nicely.

Like a tiny pint of Guinness settling:

Happy Donkey is where I get my gaskets, tampers, baskets grinders and coffee from.

And I’m certain it’s your gasket that’s letting the grinds out.

Another question about the basket.

I have a classic, and when I bought it I got a better basket (holes across the hole of the bottom, not just a circle in the middle)

Should I be taking out the little plastic thing?

I think the plastic thingy is to stop the jet of coffee produced by the perfect crema basket squirting everywhere. You should be able to discard it as with a proper basket you can even use a bottomless portafilter. That’s just a showing off thing, really.

Bin the perfect crema thing. Worth getting a bottomless portafilter. Really does help in getting the grind, distribution and tamp right (home barista has loads of info on common problems and how to sort them.) Not just a showing off thingy 🙂