FTTP q’s (fibre to the premises)

Signed up for the above and some engineers visited but couldn’t establish where the line came in. I showed them the understairs cupboard where the master socket was before it was moved. Basically they thought the skirting board there needed removing to check for any lines. That would have been down to me but this large cupboard had been painted last year and new carpet put in, I wasn’t prepared to spend money when it wasn’t certain. Cancelled order.

Fast forward to now where I’ve decided to move the desktop upstairs but there’s no master socket. Should I revisit fibre and would there be any issue with the desktop being upstairs.

Have looked for an idiot’s guide to fibre but this idiot hasn’t been able to find one. Any advice would be appreciated.

Seems a bit odd, FTTP requires a new fibre optic cable installing to the house and a new master socket installing (which requires mains power). I can’t see why where the existing copper cable comes in is an issue as it will be redundant, I can’t imagine they are ripping them out as they install Fibre.

Location of your desktop should be an issue assuming you can mount your new router next to the incoming fibre and you have WiFi coverage through the house.

For ours the engineer used same route/trunking the copper used to come in. For the neighbours, they just asked where they wanted the fibre to go into the house and drilled through the wall. So in our experience they’re pretty flexible (where the they is openreach installers).

I don’t think location of fibre has that much to do with where your desktop is. You’ll have a box (ONT?) where the fibre comes in. This can then plug straight into your normal router / wifi / however you distribute your network around the house.

Or am I missing the gist of the question?

They weren’t interested in the slightest in where the copper line connects to my house when I had fibre installed a few weeks ago.  It’s still there, not sure if they’ll ever take it away.

Not sure if I’m allowed to remove it and leave it coiled up by the pole.

If there is an existing run from a pole to your house that the copper is on then they’ll sent the fibre to you house via that (think the copper wire is removed, but not sure. Master socket in house not touched). Once at the house they are free to route it to enter the house wherever you want (within reason – my old copper master socket is on the front of the house, fibre was routed from the front round the side and into the middle of the house). There’s a box (splicing box?) on the outside of the house where it goes fibre to network cable. Inside the house you have an ONT box on wall (needs power supply). From the ONT it goes to modem/router/wifi point etc (which will obvs need power).

Thanks all. Where is the ONT box usually sited, does it have to be downstairs? That will need 2 sockets apparently so downstairs would not be an issue. Would prefer the router to be upstairs ideally. The engineers that came were from a new and therefore small broadband provider, reckon it would probably be better to use one of the main broadband providers.

Guys who fitted mine were fairly flexible where it was. But if it’s underground then it’s likely to be downstairs, surely?

Like the other posters, I’m not sure why the copper line location is at all relevant. The fttp line is completely different and ignores everything you currently have. My old phone line is still in place.

Are you sure it’s FTTP and not FTTC?

Fibre to the cabinet will reuse your existing master socket for what is colloquially known as the “last mile.”  Fibre to the premises is, well, exactly that, it doesn’t touch the old copper network at all.  The answer to the question “where’s the master socket?” for FTTP is “where ever you install it, guv,” you’re looking for something which doesn’t exist yet.

As Timmys suggests, my fibre install is delivered via an old telegraph pole out back, down the side of the house and through the wall.  I see no technical reason why it couldn’t be installed upstairs unless they don’t have Working From Height training (or, y’know, a ladder).  The fibre terminates in an ONT box screwed to the wall which turns the optical into a regular Ethernet socket.  From there you can do what you want, the router is a separate device.

Your best solution here would depend on your usage case, I have a high-end router as close to the centre of the house as is practical, wired back to the ONT.  I have a couple of travel routers dotted about in corners to relay the Wi-Fi signal to cheap smart bulbs because I have internal walls which are two foot thick.  The ISP-supplied router I gave back to them, I have no use for it.  But your house is not my house and I expect I already know your stance on smart devices. 😁

The fibre cable approached my house through the same hole as the phone cable, from the same hole in the pavement.  I had them run it up the outside of the house and round the back so it could come into the living room where the router would be – because when the router’s in that location the whole house gets wifi.  They didn’t care where it went, took them ten minutes to nail the cable to the wall and they weren’t bothered that I used up 20x more cable than the neighbours 🙂

reckon it would probably be better to use one of the main broadband providers.

You’ll probably find that you’re very limited as to who you can use.  My provider is as you describe, a small company new to the area.  But they’ve been brilliant and my options were “them” or something other than FTTP.

My old phone line is still in place.

I cut mine off, it’s utterly redundant.  Prior to FTTP being available I had VM cable which also doesn’t use the phone line.  Before that I was at my old house, my broadband provider was Sky which was traditional ADSL; the voice side of it died one day and I never got around to reporting it.  The only time it ever rang was my mum or “we believe you’ve been involved in an accident that wasn’t your fault, is that correct?”  I haven’t used a landline phone in probably a decade and I can count the number of times I’ve missed it on the fingers of one foot.  I fundamentally object to paying twenty quid “line rental” on top of my Internet subscription for BT to do absolutely nothing, as soon as I moved to a VM capture area I couldn’t get shut of the stupid thing fast enough.

 I see no technical reason why it couldn’t be installed upstairs unless they don’t have Working From Height training (or, y’know, a ladder).

I think the external junction box (which I incorrectly called the splicing box before), has to be at ground level. I think the equipment use to do whatever they need to do at that point is pretty hefty and isn’t suitable for doing up a ladder (or this could be Openreach engineer BS). It seems there are examples of the fibre entering the home at first floor and the junction box being internal, but that is very non standard. Likewise, the cable out of the junction box to the internal ONT is standard network stuff, so I can’t see why the junction box couldn’t be at ground level and the cable to ONT be routed up a wall and in. Again, totally non-standard so they may not want to do it.

Like the other posters, I’m not sure why the copper line location is at all relevant. The fttp line is completely different and ignores everything you currently have. My old phone line is still in place.

When talking about FTTP, there’s basically two completely different flavours as I understand it. The first are companies operating outside the telephone/Openreach network – eg your Gigaclears and your Virgins. They do not give two hoots about what is there currently and plough their own route (often literally as they generally take an underground approach). The second are companies re-selling Openreach FTTP. They are running off the same infrastructure as the copper phone system, so will start by looking at the route that the copper comes in and take it from there.

Oh, yeah,

Perversely, with Virgin Media, their packages are (were?) cheaper if you took a landline option.  This isn’t a traditional line, it’s an RJ11 to BT ‘tail’ hanging out the back of the router.  I queried it with the sales guy as to what the point was, he gave me some flim-flam before confessing that actually, he had no idea why it was cheaper either.  Perhaps I’d change my mind and use it in the future?  Vanishingly unlikely as my phone went to the charity shop years ago, the only landline device I have a is a BT engineering test handset.

Like the other posters, I’m not sure why the copper line location is at all relevant. The fttp line is completely different and ignores everything you currently have. My old phone line is still in place.

when I had my FTTP installed at home, it came along the telegraph pole the same as the old copper wire did (i.e. everything above ground) so install was very simple.

When I had it installed at work, everything was underground so we had to locate where the copper wire came in so it could be used to pull the fibre cable through the conduit from the access point outside into the premises.

We have FTTP from an ‘alt-net’ (i.e. relatively small non-Openreach) provider whose main selling point apart from the actual service provided was that they are not Virgin. They brought the fibre over from the telephone pole to the same place on the house where the copper cable connected, but then it was basically up to us where we wanted the hole drilled and the termination box placed.

Then it’s ethernet to the main wifi mesh box, from there to a small switch that splits everything off to TV, xbox, Sonos, Hue and ethernet (put in by the previous house owner to my lasting thanks) round to the back of the house where the other mesh box is. End result is great wifi at the back of the house where the study is and even in my (tiny) garden!

So in short, would certainly recommend small providers (they have more to lose if they get it wrong), get them put the termination point somewhere that works for you in terms of connectivity and out-of-the-way-ness, and then do whatever you need to do to get wifi where you need it which is pretty simple these days with relatively cheap wireless mesh systems.

I think the external junction box (which I incorrectly called the splicing box before), has to be at ground level. I think the equipment used to do whatever they need to do at that point is pretty hefty and isn’t suitable for doing up a ladder (or this could be Openreach engineer BS).

I’d have to go check to be certain, but I don’t think I have such a thing.  The fibre comes off the pole (from who only knows where, the fibre cab is just down the road out front), over my back yard to the house, down the wall and then through it, terminating internally at the ONT.  There is no local-to-me “external box” at all to my knowledge.  I could be wrong.

I think what you’re calling a splicing box is known as a joint.  That’s what the voice guys at work used to call the 50-pair rats’ nest punchdown boxes inside the building, anyway.

Odd creatures, voice engineers.  The “old boy” BT engineers are world-leading at what they do, but I’ve worked alongside a lot and I’ve met very few that weren’t a little bit weird.

Small fibre provider did ours. Part of build was a new pole with all the fibre ‘gubbins’ at the top to split out individual houses (all 4 of us!). I’d pulled an old cable through the loft before they came. They were very happy to connect to our roof (via a swan neck as otherwise local tractors might hit the cable) and insert end into loft. Taped it to my cable, pulled it through and then downstairs to where we wanted it.

Termination box (powered, external to internal fibre) can go anywhere there’s a plug. They did the splicing with a nifty bit of kit and bolted everything to the wall and tidied up. Did  a very nice routing job outside as well.

So unless it’s FTTC (as Cougar said and was my first thought when talking about master socket) then you should be able to install anywhere. The only caveat we had was ‘company policy’ said they couldn’t wander about in the loft space (due to a number of engineers going through floors apparently!)

I think what you’re calling a splicing box is known as a joint.  That’s what the voice guys at work used to call the 50-pair rats’ nest punchdown boxes inside the building, anyway.

It’s this – labelled Openreach Customer Service Point. (1) is very rigid fibre optic cable coming in from telegraph pole. (2) is a very much more flexible cable, which I assumed was standard ethernet, but now I look at the ONT it is labelled “Optical”. Ignore (3), that’s installed by me (Ethernet from the router coming back out the same hole to give another hardwired ethernet further down the house).

that’s different to ours. There’s a “pod” of connectors on the pole connected to the ‘spine’ fibre. So – I think – the individual fibres that come to the house are what would be ‘internal fibre’ on your pic.

Looking at the box in the house,  I was wrong – I think the fancy kit terminated the fibre in the box. As the ‘output’ is ethernet. So it’s basically a fibre transceiver.

Not sure this is helping OP! But it definitely sounds like you need a second opinion.

 There’s a “pod” of connectors on the pole connected to the ‘spine’ fibre.

Is that the egg box looking thing at the top of the pole? If so I have that too – it’s where cable (1) originates. I thought the external junction box was a standard Openreach thing – this guide seems to suggest it is, but maybe there are situations where it isn’t..

Egg box is the common term.

If the pole is marked with a yellow warning triangle on it with a laser printer inside the triangle it’s most probably got overhead fiber installed.

Op ignore your original master socket it will be redundant if going to full fibre. As a ideal you want the least amount of fiber in your home just a small loop to the ont (fancy new socket) .

Is that the egg box looking thing at the top of the pole?

That’s the badger! I now scour telegraph poles when I’m out riding/running to check rural coverage 🙂

We had to run about 20m to get where we wanted the termination. From memory the ‘most’ they’ll run in 30m in the house. As pk says, less is better we just didn’t have that option.

“Are you sure it’s FTTP and not FTTC?”

Hangs head in shame as I fell for misleading marketing, had to cross-reference with the OpenReach link. It’s definitely FTTC for the plan I had in mind and currently have basic broadband along with landline which will be getting ditched. Could a Master Socket be fitted upstairs and who would need to do this?

Super-helpful as always folks, thank you.

Could a Master Socket be fitted upstairs and who would need to do this?

You only ever have A master socket, if you wanted it upstairs then it would have to be removed and replaced.  This is a job for Openreach and the last I looked at this a non-fault callout was something like £150 [EDIT: Google suggests around £100].

The question is though, why do you want it upstairs?  There may be a better way of doing what you’re trying to achieve.  Describe the problem rather than asking how to implement a random solution.

Could a Master Socket be fitted upstairs and who would need to do this?

Yes and legally an Openreach appointed engineer (it’s their cable up to the master socket).

Realistically, it’s no different to punching down any other cable.

Oh, and,

FTTP if you can get it is better in every way and probably cheaper.  IF you can get it.  I’m paying something like £25 all-in for 500Mbps (anything more would be a waste without a serious reconsideration of my internal network because, as above, 2-foot thick walls).

Yes and legally an Openreach appointed engineer (it’s their cable up to the master socket).

Realistically, it’s no different to punching down any other cable.

I held for years that it was illegal.  But I’m less convinced nowadays (thanks to previous conversations on STW) that this is actually true.  I’ve been told by multiple engineers that messing with anything backwards of the test socket is classed as tampering with the phone network, which is illegal.  However, I’m yet to find anything in black and white to verifiably back up this claim.

In any case, whilst domestic telephone cabling is about as straight-forward as it gets, it’s more than possible to make a pig’s bladder of it and then you’re potentially looking at a hefty bill to make right and had better make sure you’ve got the good biscuits in when Openreach arrive.