Fox CTD shocks – does the performance change much between T and D ?

Couple of rides in with one of these on a Giant Anthem. Have so far left it on Trail apart from popping to Climb on a couple of long ups, where it definitely stiffened up. Still to try Descent !!

Quite different to my old 08 RP23 on a Five 😀

Mine changes a lot. The descend mode isn’t much use way to soft imho. I just use climb and trail.

Big difference but on my meta I just use just the Climb and decent most of the time, never mind the 3 trail settings.

Mine went tits up recently and trail mode was suddenly the same as descend. Put another 25psi in it to compensate. Strangely it fixed itself half way around the Marin Trail yesterday. shame really as I was looking for an excuse to upgrade!

On the Trance I found D to soft and not doing much.

I found T a bit to harsh for some stuff

C almost locks it out solid.

Its pretty noticeable on mine.

I find D to be too soft.

although not fully tested I plan to leave mine in T switching to C if I remember 😳 but unlike Renton my C does not feel like a lockout – I don’t believe its supposed to be a lock out is it.

No its not meant to be a lockout.

It does react if going over a bump etc but on smoother stuff its pretty firm.

Yes, both T and C work well on mine, still to play with D !! Up in Aviemore this week but brought Soul instead…

mine is ace on the d setting going downhill. rest of the time i leave it on climb.

Night and Day on mine – it’s a Float X.

Use C for climbing, obvs.

T for flat rocky stuff and most descents.

I only really use D at Bike Park Wales, it feels like someone snuck an extra couple of inches of travel in, rear end wise it makes my GSpot ride like my Shocker did on a coil DHX5

I leave mine in T most of the time now. C for long fire road climbs or stretches of road. Occasionally use D for more radical descents. When I first got the CTD I was constantly switching the thing for every change in trail.

Forgetting to switch from C to D is what I blame for the OTB that broke my ribs in the Lake District 😥

Some thought should be about which bike you are riding OP.

I have an Anthem 29, and the maestro system is very efficient. What this leads to is none of the blowing through the travel reported from the pre-2014 CTD shocks with poor valving or a longer travel single pivot bike. On mine I can certainly tell the difference – I use T for racing and the bike becomes remarkabley super-efficient, standing up well in the depressions and honking on the bike (no percievable shock compression on an XC race sprint start for instance). Set to “D” it does work trough the travel more giving a “softer” feel – but with the Anthem specifically its hard to notice this until you look at the O ring or notice the sheer size of the obstacles you’ve just ridden down comfortably on “only” 100mm of travel…

I think your about to be surprised what D will do for you on that bike assuming the rest of the settings are dialled in correctly, I know I was.

It only changes the low peed compression damping right? The high speed compression damping is, I think, the same in all modes. So, if you are hitting rocks, roots etc at speed then there should be no difference between any of the modes. Whether you prefer T or D on a descent depends on how you want it to react in corners, under braking and when you are pushing through the pedals (manuals etc). Well, that’s my understanding, but I’m happy to be corrected.

You are right roverpig. I wasn’t sugessting otherwise but the more subtle lsc in “D” seems to add a lot of capabity on an Anthem to a setting that’s already quite capable.

I find D to be too soft.

*Sniggers*

Thanks Kryton57. Just to be clear, I wasn’t really disagreeing with anything else that was posted. I’m no expert and am still trying to get my head around this stuff too. I tend to just stick mine in D mode when the trail points down without thinking about why. It’s called Descend, so it must be the best mode for descending, right? But the more I think about it the less convinced I am. That’s on a Five though. D mode may still be perfect on an Anthem.

To be fair, the valving on the pre-2014 shocks and forks caused the shock to blow through the travel in D mode, 2014 and after have that fixed.

But the maestro system compensated/compensates for that very well being a very well sorted VPP design. I haven’t ridden single pivot but from my limited knowledge of these things I’d suspect your Orange would push through the mid stroke much faster than an Anthem, needing more not less support because the design doesn’t compensate. A Five may be better using T aka higher LSC perhaps?

I await to be corrected by someone with more/better knowledge though.

Some really useful points, thanks. Kryton, mine is a 27.5, but same principles will apply. Roverpig – my last FS was a 5, albeit an 08 model, the difference between that as a single pivot and the Giant Maestro seems significant, but dunno how much is shock technology.

Probably not much to do with the shock. I moved from a (2912) Trance to my (2013) Five. They certainly feel different and I doubt that has much to do with the shock.

I suspect that you are right Kryton57; I’ll certainly be giving T mode a good go 🙂

2014 Evo CTD on an Alpine 160.

Leave it in trail most of the time (probably for 90% of my riding). Climb only used on long tarmac drags, and Descend only switched in for fast, rocky downhills like the Peaks/Lakes.

Trail seems to be a pretty good middle ground – finds plenty of traction on technical climbs, and soaks most things up on descents.

Caveat – I run the shock pretty hard with only about 15% sag. Need to play with softening it up a bit.

On my pivot mach 5.7C I just leave it full open in D for everything including climbing. Love DW link suspension

Descend only switched in for fast, rocky downhills like the Peaks/Lakes.

This is the bit I don’t understand. If pro pedal is just a low speed compression damping, why would it make any difference turning it off on fast, rocky downhill sections?

Roverpig. In my (admittedly limited) experience of FS, switching my shock to ‘C’ works almost like a lockout, giving very limited suspension movement. To be honest, I haven’t left it in ‘C’ and tried to ride a fast rocky descent (might do so this weekend on my visit to The Peaks just to try it out).

Having said that, I did forget to switch it out of ‘C’ for the first half of my local ride (not particularly gnar filled) last week and didn’t notice, so maybe you’re right.

Having said that, I did forget to switch it out of ‘C’ for the first half of my local ride (not particularly gnar filled) last week and didn’t notice, so maybe you’re right.

Thanks. I had a similar experience (accidentally left it in C on a descent and didn’t realise until I got to the bottom), which is what got me thinking about what pro pedal actually does. Now I’m wondering whether it would actually help on descents.

For example, my Five tends to squat under braking. It’s not as dramatic as some folk make out (took me ages before I could feel it) and pretty much all designs do it to some extent, but it happens to a slightly larger extent with a single pivot. Some low speed compression damping should reduce this squat (I think), leaving a bit more travel to deal with the bumps. But it’s all theory at the moment. I need to try it and I need to try it for a while as it takes me ages to get the hang of these things.

t a low speed compression damping, why would it make any difference turning it off on fast, rocky downhill sections?

Becuase – and I don’t mean to offend here – your understanding of “low speed” isn’t perhaps what the true nature of low speed compression on the shock really is. High speed deals with all of the sudden and sharp hits to the wheel, such as roots, stutter bumps, small high frequency hits. Low speed deals with compressions, your own weight compressing the suspension through turns and off even small drops. Both work in tandem across all types of terrain to ensure the bikes absorbs bumps in the right way. If you’ve ever ridden a hardtails into a dip in the trail whilst seated and found you spine compressing into the saddle, then being pushed back out as the wheel rises out – that’s what LSC is cancelling out (roughly speaking)

CTD is designed mostly to suppress rider induced compression – e.g. from above. It means that we can stamp on the pedals and – to a point – the suspension doesn’t compress therefore more of our energy goes into turning the wheels. This can also be fixed by pumping up the air spring, but that would have a negative – make harder – effect on the rest of the shocks movement. CTD or pro pedal etc allows that to happen whilst still running a shock at the right pressure to deal with our weight and input in the right way.

As you drop down your rocky trail and land of any kind of lip, or if you enter a turn where your weight plus gravity compresses the suspension, the low speed circuit is being active in making sure your bike smoothly dampens the shock compression, rather than suddenly. This means you are cushioned/propelled out of the landing/turn smoothly rather than being ejected quickly and therefore less controllably.

the high speed circuit does the opposite – it detects and rapidly responds to a high speed bump – a sudden small hit – by moving the wheel out of the way and putting it back ready for the next high speed bump quickly.

That’s my limited understanding anyway!

Edit: and different suspension types will have an different effect. Vpp as used by giant, DW links, Intense’s and Santa Cruz should need this less as they are more efficiency / move less in the top 3rd of the stroke generally speaking , whereas single pivot and four bar are far more linear(?) and would make far more use of a CTD or pro pedal (or general speaking, “platform”) to hold them in the top third of the stroke before the big hits come so that they are more efficient during the pedally bits.

On smooth climbs I’ll leave it in C, anything slightly bumpy going up or down it’s in T and when it turns steep/fast it’s straight into D. I’m really pleased with mine after a PUSH tune.
I did want a DB Air but couldn’t be sure if it would fit (physically) in the frame so couldn’t risk it. Picked up a mint CTD which I got serviced and PUSHed all for less than the DB. I wasn’t sure if an air shock could perform as well as my coil but it does everything better. Hat’s off to TF as they got it bang on 🙂

Thanks Kryton57: I think I kind of get it. Low speed refers to shaft speed not your speed (hence my hypothesis that it might reduce brake squat). But you are right in that my understanding of exactly when the different circuits come into play on a decent is sketchy at best (much like my riding 🙂 ). No substitute for just giving it a go really I guess.

Thanks all, some great info, cheere

Low speed refers to shaft speed not your speed (hence my hypothesis that it might reduce brake squat).

Yep. The easy way to see this is on a fork – more low speed compression the less dive if you slam on the front brake. Too much though and when riding the fork won’t compress & rise on a dip as you ride through it. In an ideal world you want the fork to fall slowly into the dip then rise slowly out of it – aka following the terrain underneath the wheel with minimal movement at the bars end of things.