I had an Orange Patriot LT back in the day, and when, recently, I was after a bike to have some fun on in the short space of time that I could fit in with a 2.5 yr old and a 0.5 yr old son, I got myself a Trek SuperFly 9.6.

It’s light and straightforward. I’ve upgraded some stuff (shifters and brakes to XT, added a SuperStars carbon seatpost for a bit more give and got a good deal on some Mavic Crossmax ST from last year) and I love it. I’d love something that is today’s equivalent of my Patriot but, to be honest, I can’t afford (family-wise) to smash into a tree mid-air anymore (and yes, I have done in the past 😐 ). The superfly just ticks a lot of boxes, is really easy to keep in top form and is quite a lot of fun for an XC thingy 🙂

Funny, because my bandit is the most XC bike I’ve ever had…

This would be my everyday MTB if I had a truckload of cash lying around – Horsethief:

Newer XC geo isn’t that steep – ha 69.5 on whyte 29c, scalpels, ASR-C and slacker on Czar. Still fun to ride, just a bit more forgiving. Unfortunately why I’ll never own an Open.

M. O. N. S. T. E. R. C. R. O. S. S.

Is the big tide starting to turn back, I wonder?

This was the first big explicit push at this that I read:

Inadvertently, the trailbike also created the perfect launch pad for professional enduro racing. For a fleeting moment, “enduro” and “trailbike” were interchangeable terms, and initially, that marriage supercharged the technical performance of the basic trailbike. But, somewhere along the line, while bike and suspension makers rushed to stretch the trailbike’s performance further towards the downhill realm, we forgot that that the magic of a good trailbike is that it enhances all aspects of the riding experience. An enduro racing bike has a much more singular mission statement.

🙂

I’ve ridden my SS Scandal a couple of times in the last week having not used it much recently. My other bike isn’t a mince tank gnarpoon, it’s a Ti 456 with 140mm forks but there’s enough of a difference between the two with the forks and different wheels. But anyway I’d forgotten how fast and how much fun the Scandal is. My local trails are fast woodland singletrack and the speed and sharpness of the Scandal are ideal. It’s perfect for Glentress and a lot of my other local riding spots too, the only place nearby I’m better off with the 456 is Innerleithen. I would like a nice full suss for there but I can’t justify another bike at the moment and it’s more riding I need more than a new bike really.

I test rode a g150 a couple of years ago, absolutely loved it but at the time thought it’s too much bike for just riding about.
The chap who was working for the shop told me would I be interested in a bike with similar geometry but shorter travel.
He then told me to wait a few months and whyte then unleashed the t130 and it’s pretty much my ideal bike.

I have recently built up a Salsa Spearfish, currently absolutely loving it. It’s fast and comfortable and actually really fun to ride. its now my go to bike, unless I am riding something a bit gnar. One thing I want to do though is slacken it out slightly. Sure it’s an xc bike, but I like slightly slacker head angles. So I am toying with fitting an Angleset to it.

definitely wouldn’t get a CX bike, if your coming from a 140mm+ ish MTB bike.

I brought a CX bike, to use as both a road + offroad bike. But I just converted it into a road bike. Now I’ve got a proper road bike and I’m about to sell it.

If you wanted something quick on the road as well as off road, then you’d be much better with a rigid 29er, narrow bars, very light tyres. (bontrager team issue 1 1.9s are good or maybe thunderburts).

Ie an early 90’s MTB with all the latest gubbins.

There about a million times better than a CX bike off road.

But yeah lighter tyres.

You want a nice scandal 29er v2 frame. I just so happen to know where there’s one going…!

@ sterns

I found that really interesting and can relate to a lot of what you are saying.

I have been riding mtb’s since 1986 and offroad before that and kept riding my 90’s bike for a long while. I tried different ‘trends’ and buying what was recommended from around 2008 till fairly recently. But something was always missing.

Then tried something ‘different’* and really have got on with it. Still have other bikes I ride but I know which is first choice/go to.

*For me it was a fatbike but I’m not trying to say that is right for others. Just that it’s worth looking for what is right for you.

I brought a CX bike, to use as both a road + offroad bike. But I just converted it into a road bike. Now I’ve got a proper road bike and I’m about to sell it.

If you wanted something quick on the road as well as off road, then you’d be much better with a rigid 29er, narrow bars, very light tyres. (bontrager team issue 1 1.9s are good or maybe thunderburts).

Ie an early 90’s MTB with all the latest gubbins.

There about a million times better than a CX bike off road.

Pretty much the same experience and thoughts here. I’ve kept the cx as a general getting about bike though

rigid 29er, narrow bars

I found anything less than 660mm made the wheels feel too big and unweildy.

Ie an early 90’s MTB with all the latest gubbins.

Exactly that. Same thing as early 90s with discs, big wheels and modern geometry. Fab (for me).

Anthem SX is exactly made for what you describe. I bought one after a Whyte t129 and really like it so far. Very capable xc with a little fun chucked in.

Exactly why I went for a trigger from Paul’s over the Jekyll. Previously I’d had bikes like the Giant Reign X0-amazing on the few decent downhills I get to ride, but compromised elsewhere. I almost bought a Jekyll before realising that for the type of riding I do the trigger would be so much better. I wasn’t wrong. It’s so fast through the flowy singletrack that I ride and still more capable than I will ever be when things point downhill. Sooooo glad I didn’t get the “bigger” bike. Despite the marketing telling me otherwise..

I think shorter travel, light, fast bikes are brilliant. You can have a light and very capable bike that is more suited to most riding. I think this is where modern tech developments have really helped, because you can have light and wide tubeless rims/tyres on a more XC oriented machine, along with light 120mm forks and a dropper, and a good mix of long, low, mildy-slack geo. There’s now far less of a compromise between light/strong/cheap which helps.

As part of my prep for the Alps later in the year I’ve made a concerted effort to get out on my bigger bike. Whilst it’s very competent I’d ride my stooge on most things I take it on and not be that much slower. For probably 85% of my riding I don’t need the big bike, I do enjoy the 15% though.

If you’re not faster on a big bike then you either live somewhere smooth or you’re a mincer 🙂

I would love to have a go on the new carbon Kona Hei Hei.

Same awesome geometry as my Process 111 in a much lighter chassis and 100mm fork – a sign of the future for XC bikes or a evolutionary dead end?

steep & rocky, maybe.

everywhere else, no.

molgrips – Member

This would be my everyday MTB if I had a truckload of cash lying around – Horsethief:

The only thing wrong with the Horsethief is that it’s not a Spearfish..

steep & rocky, maybe.

That’s what I said – somewhere smooth.

This trail gets a bit steeper and very rooty a couple of hundred yards down the line. Hardly the Alps, but it’s still about 3x quicker on the Patriot than this bike, and probably 2x quicker than on my 80mm XC bike.

I’m loving my spearfish at the moment. Its a fantastic bike. Perfect for 60% of what I do. Still love being back on my fatty or my Five mind! I have just ordered an Angleset from Superstars to fit it. Which will slacken the bike out to 69deg which is the same head angle as the newer ones. Hoping this will make things a little more forgiving on some of the downs. Without killing the fantastic climbing i’m enjoying on it currently. Next step will be to drill the frame for stealth dropper routing.

after owning ‘bigger’ bikes for a long time; and having recently moved to a new location with 2 small kiddies ( 2.5yrs and 6 months) I knew I needed to make the right purchase for a change and keep to it. after a lot of research and chatting to LBS etc. I settled on a 2016 Whyte T130s with pike fork upgrade. This is perfect for the moors and 3 monthly trip to BPW/Wales. Fast and fun when needed, with enough burliness for the reds and blacks in wales when required. not exactly an ‘XC’ bike though, more trail all rounder

Newer XC geo isn’t that steep – ha 69.5 on whyte 29c,

This – have the 29C and it’s perfect for where I live. Lighter, no hassle to keep on the track maintenance wise (even front mechs are fine on a double) and it can go as fast as I dare these days. Probably could go 5% quicker on a 100/120 full suss, but I suspect it’ll just be a precursor to a more serious off. I like the feeling of speed everywhere on the hardtail, even if I’m not actually as fast if that makes sense. Think there has been tendency to pigeon hole carbon short travel hardtails as race bikes since full suss / long travel hardtails took over the majority of the market, but they are still more than capable for most of the country.

Funds are the limit here – however just figure out what your ride 90% of the time and buy accordingly.

100mm 29er, (CZAR) covers 90% for me.

The rest is sorted by a Flux for moderately chunky days and winter duties.

(Spearfish is/was a great choice too).

This trail gets a bit steeper and very rooty a couple of hundred yards down the line. Hardly the Alps, but it’s still about 3x quicker on the Patriot than this bike, and probably 2x quicker than on my 80mm XC bike.

how can I argue against logic that that. I’m getting a patriot…

I have a Specialized Camber Evo Expert, 120 mm weighing in at 11,5 kg with light wheels and heavy tires. Expect it to weigh about 11 with race tires and wheels.

The ideal solution is to have a big bike AND a short travel one, obvs.

Patriot? GW does that on his road bike blindfolded while rolling a doobie.

I rented a SC Bronson for the weekend in the Sierra Nevada and found it to be an utterly hateful machine after my steel hardtail. The trails here are steep, rocky and challenging and I would have been far happier on my XC bike. Instead I had a heavy-ish enduro bike with a 66 degree head angle with a front wheel that wandered about and never went where I wanted it. I couldn’t punch the bike up short technical climbs and downhill it just took all the nuance of line choice out of the equation. Plus it see-sawed around like a drunk thing. I hated it. I may not have been able to clatter into a rock garden at full speed on my Shand 29er but I would certainly have been faster and had more fun overall on it.

That’s similar to how I felt with my Five. Going down or along, it was awesome. But get out of the saddle and sprint up a hill? No chance, felt like riding in treacle.

I grew up from starting mtb in the early 90s with (proper) XC bikes and now I’ve come back to the modern incarnation (Spesh Epic) I find my riding much better for it.

And I happily stuffed it down everything bar the blacks at BPW and it’s still better than I am, so I have no fears on its capabilities.

Yes, I started mtb-ing late 80s on steel hardtail. There was nothing at Downieville (home of a famous DH race) that I couldn’t have comfortably handled on my Shand – the trails were steep, technical, narrow. Maybe on a wide and fast Whistler-style DH with big jumps or drops I would have wanted the Bronson, but that’s not my preferred type of riding anyway.

proper XC bike = short travel HT = fracking uncomfortable for us oldies!

nice, light, modern carbon 120mm 29er FS, job done. Fast, fun, capable, Up AND Down…….

stevenmenmuir – Member
it’s more riding I need more than a new bike really

Someone talking sense!

maxtorque – Member
proper XC bike = short travel HT = fracking uncomfortable for us oldies!

I am forty…

maxtorque – Member
nice, light, modern carbon 120mm 29er FS, job done. Fast, fun, capable, Up AND Down…….

But that’s what I’m on 🙂 Well, 100mm, but what’s an inch matter?

Most trail and Enduro bikes, 130 – 160mm travel appear to be good all rounders these days – you can take em to BPW or Alps but you can ride them all day or through the fields to your local country pub. Same goes for your aggressive hardtails (though not as comfy on the rough stuff). If you want a comfy XC bike that can do trails well enough then a short 29’er or anthem style bike is where id be putting my money. If you want a nose down arse up XC bike, then hardtail, big wheels is what you need.

What’s all this ‘comfy’ shite? If you want comfy, plant your fat ass on the sofa and drink beer… Otherwise, toughen up princess, get out the damn saddle, and ride!

The only good reason to get any suspension (front or back) is to go faster on the rough stuff. Not for ‘comfort’!

What a joker. After 4 hours of rocky trails on my hardtail, regardless of fitness, I fatigue and struggle to keep up with friends on FS bikes. There is little respite, I have to be out the saddle on rough terrain and that takes its toll, sweet cheeks.

Thanks for the idiotic response you awesome person you.