Saw this in the paper at the weekend, some interesting info and viewpoints on the sale of FC forests. Makes me wish 38 degrees would spend a bit more time on the facts before writing their hysterical spiels, though they have calmed it down since the initial daily mail-esque treemageddon.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/16/andy-wightman-woodlands-public-ownership

Also something to bear in mind if you ride in forests – the spread of Phytophthora – wheels and feet are a great vector for the spores:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jan/16/sudden-oak-death-forests-tree-species?intcmp=239

“wheels and feet are a great vector for the spores”

Anyone would think that forests are devoid of wildlife.

Thought that first article was rather interesting… what’s the chance of seeing it a reality though? My guess is the whole lot will get sold off to Centre Parcs who will then charge everyone a small fortune to spend a week in a plastic box in the trees.

Perhaps.

Anyone would think that forests are devoid of wildlife.

Quite, though the range of which some MTBer’s roam is higher than the average rabbit or squirrel 😉

Not to mention the gulf stream, of course, which has been the biggest factor in the spread of this disease all the way from Cornwall to Scotland and N. Ireland.

Thought that first article was rather interesting… what’s the chance of seeing it a reality though?

Well quite. Community ownership of large swathes of England? Under this government? Nice dream…

It’s “The Big Society” isn’t it?

buzz-lightyear – Member

“Anyone would think that forests are devoid of wildlife.”

Wildlife doesn’t jump in a car at nant y arian then drive to scotland, with the spores on the shoes carefully kept in a bag til the next ride.

You obviously haven’t seen the otters round here.

😀

Not to mention the gulf stream, of course, which has been the biggest factor in the spread of this disease all the way from Cornwall to Scotland and N. Ireland.

I didn’t know that, can you post the source for that?

Thought that first article was rather interesting… what’s the chance of seeing it a reality though?

It was wasn’t it, and yeah I’m not sure what the reality would be, as it would actually involve people getting together and making an effort, signing an internet petition is much easier and seems to be the limit of what people are prepared to do these days – sign a petition and carry on as normal.

Anyone would think that forests are devoid of wildlife.

Within a forest yes, but you probably can’t beat mountain bikers as a way of transporting spores from one forest to another geographically distant forest.

poppa – Member

“You obviously haven’t seen the otters round here.”

Ah fair play, if you’ve got otters then all bets are off.

I didn’t know that, can you post the source for that?

I don’t think I have a written source, but it was a point that was widely discussed at a recent DEFRA/ Forest Research conference I attended on P. Ramorum. Generally, the (suspected) incidents of P.r. are/were up and down the west coast and trail off eastwards along a gradually declining rainfall gradient. However, since the conference, a number of suspected sites have since been give the all clear, so the outbreak map doesn’t look as bad as it did.

We’ve not had long to study this disease yet, but it is thought that warm wet summers have allowed the disease to establish in the SW, and the last three (four?) summers have seen above average rainfall and above average humidity which has resulted in a large increase in the number of infections to the extent that whole stands became infected. The sporalation rate of P.r. in larch is also much more than of Rhododendron (another host for the disease), and it being in the tree canopy it is in a more exposed position to spread on a damp wind.

Bit more here, but most of it refers to the American version, Sudden Oak Death: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytophthora_ramorum

don’t think I have a written source, but it was a point that was widely discussed at a recent DEFRA/ Forest Research conference I attended on P. Ramorum. Generally, the (suspected) incidents of P.r. are/were up and down the west coast and trail off eastwards along a gradually declining rainfall gradient. However, since the conference, a number of suspected sites have since been give the all clear, so the outbreak map doesn’t look as bad as it did.

Interesting stuff. I remember a lecturer telling me about a rare plant in north scotland (might have been P.scotica, cant remember) that had a mysterious fungus spreading between populations, they twigged the botanists themselves were highly likely to be the vector transporting the spores!

Phytophthora is wildlife too. Stop dissing the spores maaaaaaan!

You and your charismatic megaflora want the woods to yourselves you do. 😉

Well we all know what’s going to happen don’t we.

Tories will flog off the Forests to their rich buddies and then SOD will spread across the country. Government will pay out £billions in compensation to the new forest owners to chop down their trees.

Interesting stuff. I remember a lecturer telling me about a rare plant in north scotland (might have been P.scotica, cant remember) that had a mysterious fungus spreading between populations, they twigged the botanists themselves were highly likely to be the vector transporting the spores!

It was ever thus, this is an exert from a treatise on the spread of dry rot…..basically a Himalayan fungus transported down rivers by rotting tree trunks into harbours and from there in the timbers of wooden ships to the rest of the world. First identified and recorded in the 1700’s in this country. Unfortunately this current disease is just the latest in a very long line, and not likley to be stopped anytime soon.

Genetic analyses pinpoint mainland Asia as the origin of the aggressive form var. lacrymans. A few aggressive genotypes have migrated worldwide from Asia to Europe, North and South America and Oceania followed by local population expansions. The very low genetic variation in the founder populations indicate that they have established through recent founder events, for example by infected wood materials transported over land or sea. A separate colonization has happened from mainland Asia to Japan. Our data also indicate that independent immigration events have happened to Oceania from different continents followed by admixture.

Government will pay out £billions in compensation to the new forest owners to chop down their trees.

Ha ha. You think? Forest owners are getting very little by way of compensation for having to clear the current infected larch stands. For non-infected stands, private forestry subsidy is a very small pot compared to the agricultual one for the amount of public benefit it provides, but that’s a different topic I guess.

Phytophthora is wildlife too. Stop dissing the spores maaaaaaan!

You and your charismatic megaflora want the woods to yourselves you do.

Hehe!

I guess larch are non-native, but they are rather nice and it would be bad if it jumped to a native species with the same vigour.

Our native conifer species are quite few (three actually) one of which of which has it’s own disease to worry about: http://www.forestry.gov.uk/fr/INFD-6ZCKAE

Agree though that the removal of larch from the landscape would be a shame. Similarly so with Scot’s pine, particularly the truly native bits.

The Andy Wightman article was interesting, though I think we’d have to change a lot of attitudes here to get people really involved in community forestry the way many European countries do. They aren’t just playgrounds, they are crops, workplaces, shelters, pollution sinks, wildlife refuges, the list goes on and on.

I wasn’t so impressed with the headline on one of the other articles that called Phytophtora a virus. There’s some debate over whether its a bacterium or is closer to algae, but a virus it definitely ain’t. Either way its made its mark on human history already, P.infestans caused the Irish potato blight, without that the Kennedys might still be farming in County Wexford. Or maybe not.