Football – it’s just a bit pants really, isn’t it?

You can like both. I missed most of the England game because I watched Ireland v South Africa.

Half my “problem” with football is the fans, their tribalism and their antics

The tribalism and antics is precisely why I absolutely love it!

All this ‘we can all have a pint together afterwards’ bollocks with the rugby? **** that! I want venomous hatred and mutual abuse ?

Even then, it’s being there or listening to it

To a non-sportsball watcher that’s even more weird. What do you get from that?

“Ooh, did you hear in the 27th minute, when Jones passed the ball to Smith, and then back to Jones? We’ll never hear the likes of that again, amazing stuff.” It’s like watching a rock concert on mute.

I do think these threads are reverse snobbery. Oh look at me, I don’t like football and all these people talk to me about it.

Honestly, I don’t disagree, I find threads created to discuss things people don’t like to be a bit odd. Though asking “is it just me” or “am I missing something here” on the other hand seems reasonable enough.

I think it’s more of a problem when people wade in purely to derail conversations. Like, I’d never comment on a football thread because I simply don’t care. A thread going “it’s a bit pants” is my wheelhouse; actual fans can either explain why they think it’s not pants and perhaps educate the OP, or ignore it and go to the multitude of other “yay football” forums/media.

But Cougar, the question “is it just me” or “what am I missing” is purely a smoke screen. No one who asks this question actually wants to be be educated or told why other people enjoy it. They want another user to join in sharing their loathing of people who enjoy things they don’t.

When I see a score like 6-0 I assume that’s the judges score for artistic style in diving 😉
Or for feigning near fatal injury if they get tripped up or brushed by an opponent 😉

Flatmate used to go on and on and on and on and on and ariston and on… about “his” team (on the opposite side of the country). Tried to explain why a nil-nil match was so exciting, and the whole point of it was 90 minutes of controlling possession. Which is weird, cos the point of the game when we were forced to play it in PE lessons was to score goals. To me that’s like TdF, but they all just roll over the line at the end in a bunch with no sprints and get the same time.

Did watch one match for real once. We left 10 min before the end to avoid the mad crush and to get the car before the traffic got too bad. Never watched a match since. “pants” would be the word I’d use to describe it.

The behaviour of some football fans is downright creepy and cult like.

What exactly is creepy or cult-like? What behaviour do you see to come to this absurd opinion?

What exactly is creepy or cult-like?

They ride around in sponsored tops, matching their bikes and cheering each other when they do well.

^ 🙂 🙂

International football has become a different animal to club football (especially the Premier League), it’s not about entertaining, it’s about not embarrassing your country and scraping a result where you can. And much as everyone seems to love to hate Southgate, he’s quite good at it.

But Cougar, the question “is it just me” or “what am I missing” is purely a smoke screen. No one who asks this question actually wants to be be educated or told why other people enjoy it. They want another user to join in sharing their loathing of people who enjoy things they don’t.

Perhaps. Maybe that is the point.

But so what? Is there harm in a pub advertising itself as “football-free” as an antidote to those who don’t buy into the national obsession? Is there harm in a thread where football-hating curmudgeons can talk about why they dislike football and how much of a pain in the arse it is to avoid it?

I’m the world’s worst for wading in when something is objectively wrong, I can’t help myself. If something is subjectively wrong then perhaps that’s an opening for discussion. And if something is merely opinion then, well…

As for tribalism in football, people become incredibly tribal over all sorts including: music, fashion, political views, the school you went too and even what size of track is best for model railways ?

The best description of football I’ve heard is, it is like pantomime.

Where’s I think cycle racing (especially the TDF) is more like a soap opera at times.

A knowledge of the previous history in anything is important in understanding what is going on and why something that seems so minor can actually have so much significance.

Imagine watching Have I Got News For You, without actually having any knowledge of what has actually happened in the news recently, it wouldn’t make much sense.

What exactly is creepy or cult-like? What behaviour do you see to come to this absurd opinion?

Cherry-picking from Wikipedia, substitute “leader” for “team”:

A cult is a group which is typically led by a charismatic and self-appointed leader, who tightly controls its members, requiring unwavering devotion to a set of beliefs and practices which are considered deviant (outside the norms of society).[1] It is in some contexts a pejorative term, also used for a new religious movement or other social group which is defined by its unusual religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs and rituals,[2] or its common interest in a particular person, object, or goal. This sense of the term is weakly defined – having divergent definitions both in popular culture and academia – and has also been an ongoing source of contention among scholars across several fields of study.[3][4]: 348–356

An older sense of the word, which is not pejorative, involves a set of religious devotional practices that is conventional within its culture, is related to a particular figure, and is frequently associated with a particular place.[5] References to the imperial cult of ancient Rome, for example, use the word in this sense. A derived sense of “excessive devotion” arose in the 19th century.

(Ooh, the editor is back!)

But Cougar, the question “is it just me” or “what am I missing” is purely a smoke screen. No one who asks this question actually wants to be be educated or told why other people enjoy it. They want another user to join in sharing their loathing of people who enjoy things they don’t.

And so what if it is? Nobody is forcing you to join in just as nobody forces me to comment on football or TDF threads. If you don’t like the thread there are plenty more to choose from.

I live and work in Liverpool. Football is a big thing in Liverpool.

Whoop-de-****-doop, would you like a medal? Football is a big thing most places which is the entire crux of this thread. Some places the team you support is defined by your religion and by extension what colours grown men refuse to wear, drive or whatever. It’s **** stupid and honestly something I want no part in. It gets very boring very very quickly when people assume your team or religion based on what colour of t-shirt you happen to be wearing.

What I’m saying is, you might equally not enjoy it but I doubt you’ve endured the same sectarian shite I have.

The (football hater) doth protest too much, methinks. I as a football fan do not care if you don’t understand the passion.

can you name another where DV rates increase after a game?

That’s often stated, have you actually read any articles behind the stats?

Cougar – so nothing you’ve copied and pasted suggests supporting football is creepy or cult-like – I’m not sure if you are for or against supporting football/sports in general.

Do you know what, if this thread was called “football haters – assemble!”, and the OP was just “I don’t understand football and I’m sick of it”, I’d be fine with it and wouldnt have responded. But there seems to be a question here requesting an answer, and the answer is:

No, football is not pants. It’s the most accessible and most played sport globally. It requires skill and athleticism but notably doesn’t necessarily reward specific physical attributes and mostly rewards a more cohesive team over a group of individuals with higher skills or fitness that don’t know each other. At lower levels different genders and ages can play it together and have a huge amount of fun. At the highest level the speed of thought, tactical awareness and fitness come together to create a high speed game of chess, where it’s easy to forget how uncontrollable a highly pressurised pigs bladder can be when it’s pinged at you at an awkward height.

There are over 5 billion football fans in the world. Many of them are men, and history tells us most men are ****, therefore most football fans are utterly obnoxious. Due to its popularity the business of football is incredibly valuable, toxic, destructive and very interesting to those that like that sort of thing. Professional footballers get paid a lot of money, and that makes them very odd individuals that most right thinking people find distasteful. But the combination of skill, randomness (due to the high pressure pigs bladder), high stakes, weird fans, even weirder players and really very disturbing leaders of the sport makes for a compelling, highly entertaining and very often hilarious spectacle. In a world where men find it very hard to bond with other men, football can be a shortcut to important conversations, laughter, and friendship.

Many folk don’t like football, and that’s fine. It’s a bloody ridiculous kids sport, you might as well say you like bicycling.

As for tribalism in football, people become incredibly tribal over all sorts including: music, fashion, political views, the school you went too and even what size of track is best for model railways ?

Yup.

And then we cleared puberty. 🙂

^ some of you did. Us lot still enjoy football. Sorry about that dads.

The (football hater) doth protest too much, methinks. I as a football fan do not care if you don’t understand the passion.

You don’t care sufficiently to dive into a “football is pants” thread to declare to the world how much you don’t care. Got it.

Cougar – so nothing you’ve copied and pasted suggests supporting football is creepy or cult-like – I’m not sure if you are for or against supporting football/sports in general.

The cult bit was really “excessive devotion,” the rest was me being a nob. 🙂

I genuinely don’t understand what you’re not sure about, unless that’s sarcasm. I have no interest – and I’ve tried, honest, I’ve been to games – and I despise the rabid obsession it generates.

You can’t get away from it, sports news on the radio is “football football football football football football cricket football football football” – what’s the score in yesterday’s Manchester Storm / Sheffield Steelers game? I’ve had to abandon Twitter tonight because despite my previously championed careful curation fully half of my feed at least is people **** on about football. It is relentless.

Because, genuinely, the majority either actively support or are genuinely interested in the results of significant sporting events. No-one can cater perfectly for everyone.

World cup: Women prepare for increased domestic abuse

@theotherjonv here’s some actual academic research (linked)

On a purely rhetorical front, what is this football thing of which you speak?
Nothing to me, that’s what.

For the ‘I just don’t get it’ middle class bedwetters, it’s worth watching this. It might explain in some small way what it means to us. I grew up in the 80’s and this was our culture and you can sneer at it all you like but it’s ours and it really matters to us. Still does. You either get it or you don’t. Simple as that.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Casuals-Story-Legendary-Terrace-Fashion/dp/B08WJNHBK6?dplnkId=ab9a7834-9ec1-494a-a76d-8ba50e4fec79&nodl=1

I suspected you’d say that. It’s frequently cited as fact without anyone ever looking beyond the headline, mainly because it matches the trope being pushed, that football fans are neanderthal wife beaters.

It is a correlation, not a causation.

– Papers by researchers at Strathclyde and LSE agree that football doesn’t cause domestic violence, and in fact DV falls during major games.

– It rises AFTER, but that isn’t because of the football itself, it’s because of alcohol consumption. There is no rise in DV during/after major matches in non drinkers and if football was the cause then there would be.

– The increase in DV is the same as the increase in other alcohol related crime, crime goes up not DV specifically.

– And there’s virtually no DV by football fans that isn’t already there – football fans don’t become wife beaters because the football’s on; wife beaters are likely to be more active after the football has been on (because they’re more likely to have had a few beers while watching the game)

That’s not to deny that the correlation is there, or that DV is a horrible and significant crime, but the cause is alcohol. Football is often related to having a few beers but that is the link that needs breaking, not the football itself.

FWIW and to specifically answer your question; there’s not a lot of research into other sports, to be able to point at other correlation stats, but anywhere where having a few beers is part of the watching / matchday experience is likely to have similar correlation. One that does exist though is american football, where DV increases after games in a similar way.

Repeat after me – football watching does not cause an increase in DV.

It really is a great game – it takes very little to be able to play it.

I’ve seen balls cobbled together with god-knows-what held together with string and elastic bands, on scrubland with goats on, all over the World, and with those jumpers for goalposts…

Thing is, almost everyone who watches football has played it at some level, even if that level was the school playground 40 years ago, and therefore has at least some understanding of what makes practitioners of it at the highest level so good.

And when played at the highest of its heights it can be genuinely sublime.

It can, of course, also be quite dreadful, but can’t most things?

Repeat after me – football watching does not cause an increase in DV.

You’re absolutely correct. I’ve had this exact same conversation multiple times in the context of video games.

Apologies for missing it but I don’t know you’re replying to. SQ’s link?

Expect the exceptions. This paper seems to infer there is correlation between matches, specifically, old firm matches, and domestic violence. They compare across weekends and other matches and old firm games seem to show an increase. Very specific I know but enough to muddy the waters around the argument.

https://research-repository.st-andrews.ac.uk/handle/10023/4063

You’d find it a hard argument to say that factors such as alcohol consumption are significantly higher from one weekend to another.

The behaviour of some football fans is downright creepy and cult like.

Yeah, I mean throwing piss at competitors and getting in their way on gruelling climbs is perfectly normal right?

Yes, question was posed “can you name another where DV rates increase after a game”, I said show me the data and Squirrelking posted that link.

The link I meant to post didn’t come through, here’s the evidence I refer to also with links

What is the relationship between domestic abuse and football?

Expect the exceptions. This paper seems to infer there is correlation between matches, specifically, old firm matches, and domestic violence.

Interesting that one, I have a theory. As noted in the review I link above

Ivandić et al. have discovered that the time a match is played can have a significant impact on domestic violence rates. Specifically, they found that matches with early kick-offs (ie before 7pm) have much higher levels of violence compared to late kick-offs (ie after 7pm). They hypothesise this increase is primarily driven by the fact that an earlier kick-off allows for longer alcohol consumption after the match has finished.

When do Old Firm games kick off?

(semi rhetorical; I know – OF games are typically scheduled for lunchtime Sunday specifically to avoid fans getting lashed up BEFORE the game making them easier to police. Potentially with an unintended consequence. There was a call to trial midweek evening games – reduced boozing time after work / have to get up for work the next day)

Is this a good time to bring up tennis?

I understand the rules, tactics blah blah blah. I used to box and do martial arts, I ride bikes and used to climb. Don’t watch any of them and still understand them. Football isn’t special in that regard. It’s a relatively simple game. Like most, it takes a hell of a lot of skill to master.

You’ve answered why football is so popular yourself. The barrier to entry is literally zero, you could kick a can if you wanted. Every other sport mentioned has a significant cost barrier for the vast majority of the planet. Anyone can kick a can but aren’t able to master the skills. It’s why it’s so relatable and popular.

Also to add further / clarify

Football is often related to having a few beers but that is the link that needs breaking, not the football itself.

(my own quote)

Britain is a big football nation, culturally a few beers at the football with your mates after a hard week at work is quite ingrained. And our relationship with alcohol is quite toxic, the drinking to excess, pissed up Brits abroad, etc.

Football does make emotions run high. I’ve never beaten my wife or kids, or been involved in football violence for that matter, even though I used to drink heavily, borderline high functioning alc. I thankfully stopped 20-odd years ago after an incident that made me realise what I was doing (drinking I mean, not wifebeating. I never stopped that*)

But i still get really (angry / cross / sad – not sure, mix of all three) if my team plays badly and loses. I can be on cloud nine if we play well and win. I know admitting that is weird, and probably a character flaw of some point, but after 50-odd years of the game I still can’t argue myself out of the Shankly quote. IF my response to either elation or despair is alcohol consumption however…..  there’s clearly a link between alcohol consumption and DV (almost a trope in itself – how many tales of ‘My Dad was lovely except when he’d had a drink, then he’d fly into a rage and that’s when we kids knew to make ourselves scarce until he’d sobered up….’)

So I’m sort of arguing myself now (stick with me) – football does cause emotion, couple that to our inability to drink like sensible adults, and that’s why there’s a correlation. Football’s not totally off the hook, but as per earlier post if it was genuinely a football thing, teetotal fans would be going home and hitting their partners just the same.

(equally, what else increases alcohol consumption and needs banning….I’m going for summer bank holidays and sunny barbecues. If I had time I’d try to find a correlation between them and DV to justify my call)

* And finally – in case lost in slightly flippant asides – DV is not a laughing matter, I abhor and condemn in the strongest terms. I haven’t stopped wifebeating because you can’t stop doing something you never did.

For the ‘I just don’t get it’ middle class bedwetters, it’s worth…

Why on earth do you think anyone who you refer to like that would go on to take any advice from you?

If you want people to understand – and I mean really want people to understand – your choice of language is doing you no favours. I’d have thought you of all folks would understand a little about taking to people with a different point of view to you.

I 100% get why it is popular. What I don’t get is the need for fans to incessantly talk about it and bring it up in conversation with people who don’t have any interest in it. Three times this last week already. It is the only sport it happens with and you get weird reactions from some for not liking it. Also seeing fully functional adults getting upset because somebody else did badly in a game is bizarre. They’re not even playing! You have to tiptoe around some senior people at my work if their team plays badly and certain colours are pretty much banned from the office. That’s not normal behaviour.

I find following the results more interesting than the game itself.  I’ve not watched a single game of the euros, it’s just dull.

I’ve not watched a single game of the euros,

Presumably because you don’t have a TV? It’s got to be up there with football as something you want everyone to know you don’t do.

@funkmaster I like football but I would leave that job. Sounds like a toxic environment run by man children stuck in a different era.

“I 100% get why it is popular. What I don’t get is the need for fans to incessantly talk about it and bring it up in conversation with people who don’t have any interest in it”*

A partial explanation perhaps. One that was put to me on here when I started a similar thread a few years ago (if the search function worked I’d link to it). Men sometimes do this, not necessarily because they want it to lead to a deep conversation about tactics or team allegiances, but because they are just trying to make conversation. It’s assumed to be a safe opening gambit as a topic, like the weather. It’s a compliment perhaps? They want a human interaction, a connection and don’t really know how else to initiate it, whether due to social awkwardness or just being crap at small talk. As men we are not the best at talking at the best of times.

Now I write this as someone with little interest in football, who previously got a bit miffed at the assumption I must have, simply because I was male. But the above when put to me did make me rethink it a little, and perhaps try not to be so brusque in pointing out my lack of interest. A stranger wanting to exchange a few words and have a human interaction is a positive thing and I try a little harder now.

*Where has the quote function gone?